WMcD Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 The purpose of this subset of the forum is to discuss movie audio. Probably started to discuss home theater. Still, we get to discussing first run films and whether the theater presentation is impressive or not. Rental or purchase of the DVD or VHS tape might depend on such discussion. My experience is that theaters in the Chicago area have audio systems which run the range from good or excellent to very poor. I'd expect the same is true elsewhere. The small cineplex theaters seem to be the worst offenders. The trailers are blaring out sound sometimes followed by the main feature which is almost as bad. The systems might be okay but the setting are obviously wrong. On the other hand, the THX certified theaters seems to do a good job. I can only think that someone comes through from time to time and checks up on audio quality. Overall, I'm hard pressed to say that a given movie has good or bad audio, when it reaches the home market, based on what is heard in the theater. It is quite a shame that sound engineers give great attention to the mix for cinema use, only to have things ruined because of the theater settings. Further, this all may be quite unrelated to what one hears on a DVD or VHS tape. The bottom line is that we have to be ready to accept that what we hear in the theater may be quite poor while the home product will be, probably, quite excellent. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 gil, i'm pretty sure the movie mix/engineering/soudtrack is stamped right onto the dvd as is. iow, same mix as the theater though you may have dif formats available on the dvd, such as dd or dts or dolby surround. though i have heard of exceptions to this w/ concert dvd whereas they use a dif mix for the dolby format vs that for the dts. this has lead to some cries of foul in the dolby vs dts wars. but don't know if this ever applies to movies, & if it does it seems that all mixes are still originally done so for the theaters. this in turn seems to also create some demand, or at least some purpose, for the certified thx equipment at home. f.e., one thx feature in the thx mode on my pre/pro is re-eq(ualization). it in essence is meant to more nullify the brightness present on movie soundtracks, which as i understand, the engineers add because the front speakers are behind screens. it basically drops the higher freqs some db for home listening. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-17-2002 at 01:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I wonder if the average movie goer pays much attention to how good the sound really is. I know lots of people who listen to wave radios and think that is high fidelity. Personally, I avoid several movie theaters in my area because the sound systems are not very good. Many times I'll go to the movies and all the music is coming from the front of the theater. I see speakers everywhere but they don't seem to use them. Why?? I'm not a fan of THX certification for home audio. Many of the newer preamps have adopted the Lucas stamp of approval and this limits the design of the unit being produced. These approval standards have removed all tone controls from preamps and the ability to adjust all your speakers from small to large in every combination. I went through this when I was going to upgrade my Sherwood Newcastle. I decided that they units that were out there were either overpriced and buggy and limited the amount of control the user has. With the Newcastle I can set gain, tone controls, small/large in every combination, and it has a 6 channel pass through. The unit is quiet, not buggy, dynamic and well constructed. I believe it's called a dark horse and is dogged by the Sherwood name which has produced some real garbage. Newcastle is their high-end line which is very well constructed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 t, good point. i gotta say that until i got into multi-channel sound a few years back, i didn't really take much notice. but probably because the theaters didn't really get into it either til lately, at least around the midwest here. i do recall being at the Chinese Theater in LA seeing the flick The Sorceror (actually a movie about a truck ). this was in like '76 & they had great surround effects there. so for me it seems that when the sound system is exceptional more may take notice. i know when folks step into my HT they do take some notice, even if they're bose-folk. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 BOA: Have you ever been in a Sony Imax theater. The sound is incredible and they have other special effects that make movie watching an experience. I would think that theaters have a lot of competition for PPV, video on demand (IO TV), DVD rentals, VHS rentals, etc. I would love to see the numbers for movie goers over the last 10 years. I could be wrong. If theaters are losing market share then they will have to provide a more engaging experience. Better sound, chairs that shake, 72mm film, etc. The theaters that I go to don't even offer an usher to seat people. So you always get the a-holes who leave one empty seat between them and the next party. This is very annoying when you have to ask strangers to all move down so you can have two seats next to eachother to avoid sitting in the first row. You're right that I did notice the sound more when I got my own 5.1 channel setup. Now I realize that I have better sound in my own livingroom. Funny about BOSE listeners. I just bought a new truck and it came with a BOSE stereo. My friend so that I said WOW! you're very lucky to have such a great radio. In reality it doesn't sound any better then any other stock radio that I have owned. For good car stereo yoou need good components and the stock stuff just isn't that good in most cars. Anyway, I think the THX standards are good for theaters who need guidlines but is bad for home audio since it limits what can and can't be designed into a preamp/amp. The only preamp that I would consider is the B&K ref. 30 but the price is outrageous. I was also told by a friend who I trust that is in the business that I probably couldn't hear a difference between what I have and the B&K anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 t, what do you have? i heard a big dif between my already pretty fine marantz sr8000 & my current HT ref 30. i think its a great value as it compares to pre/pros up to the $5k range or even higher. of course value is in the ear of the beholder & the budget. i've been to the imax once to see the michael jordon flick. sound was excellent, though wonder if that's standardized. may sound better at other imax than here in lowly kc. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Boa, I have two setups that are pretty similiar. Down stairs I have K-horns and 3 Heresys driven by a Newcaslte 9080 preamp, a Sherbourn 1500 amp and a Pioneer 47A Elite player. The Sherbourn amp is a very nice sounding SS unit. It has 5 seperate monoblocks with seperate transformers, heatsinks, etc. I upgraded from a B&K AV5000II and heard a huge difference in 5.1 listening. I think the B&K was underpowered to drive all 5 speakers. Monoblocks are the way to go with a 5.1 system. For stereo listening the B&K was one sweet amp. My upstairs system has the same components minus the 47a. I have a Pioneer 414 and Cornwalls instead of K-horns. BOth systems sound great. I'd like to get a tube amp/preamp but I'm not sure how to run it along side my current setup. Do you know of an A/B switch for running different components with the same speakers? Also, what differences did you hear with the new ref. 30? Are the benefits of the preamp lost when you use the player's DACS? I mostly use teh 47A's DACS with the Newcastle preamp. I'm wondering if I would benefit from the Ref. 30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 t, yes i use a russound manual a/b switch box to run both my lod '75 ken receiver & marantz sr8000 into rf-3 in the stereo listening lounge. keith steered me over there at www.russound.com they don't sell direct on net but have a good dealer/distrib network. cost about $75, but beware this one only accepts down to 14ga. wire (i used 12ga w/ pins). they may also have a remote control model. know there are others that do but can't recall names. a speaker selector box should work just the same but in reverse. the biggest things i noticed w/ the ref 30 was the more crisp clean detail in the highs. began hearing things like the sizzle of a cigarette & lips coming apart when talking, much more clearly. & also the bass seemed much tighter & defined. i also use its sibling 7270 power amp w/ it & believe there's some synergy there. but that was coming off a marantz receiver & acurus 200five amp combo, so of course your situation is i think better soundwise already. many fine b&k reps out there so you know the only way to really find out. trouble is the dealers don't discount too much but like the authorized kief's in lawrence, ks will do mail order for about $300 more than the net price i got - $2250. also, you may want to check w/ upscale audio in ca for mail order. but sounds like you need to demo one locally 1st. is your b&k amp 5 or 2 channel, or do you still have it? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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