New sub install help

[Josh810]

I have no intentions on lowering the bass output. I am interested in some panels if they do help a little with keeping the bass in my house, help out with the over all sound quality and I would like to really turn my family room into beutiful home theater. I think just having one couch in the middle of the room would open up my front stage so I can place the subs towards the outer of the room and have the fronts closer together

[derrickdj1]

The bass traps have to be around two feet thick to help and floor to ceiling height.

[Quiet_Hollow]

I have no intentions on lowering the bass output.

That's not what I said.

 

You'd be much better served by going over to your neighbor's place while your system is running full-tilt and measuring the spectrum of what they're actually hearing.

 

It ain't bass.

[mustang guy]

 

I have no intentions on lowering the bass output.

That's not what I said.

 

You'd be much better served by going over to your neighbor's place while your system is running full-tilt and measuring the spectrum of what they're actually hearing.

 

It ain't bass.

 

I think I know the answer to this, but I'll ask anyway. How does raising the crossover point in the AVR for the subwoofer change what the neighbor hears? 

 

edit: Shaking the hole neighbors house is an indication that he is sharing the resonant frequency of their house. Good neighbors share.  

Edited March 2, 2016 by mustang guy

[Josh810]

Right on mustang guy! I'm a newbie at all this and I don't understand all the technical information I bought good equipment and I'm learning as I go

[Quiet_Hollow]

Bumping up the crossover point shifts the power out of the main channels and puts it into the sub. Keeps the mid bass "on-target" instead of finding it's way through the walls by controlling how much power the mains dump off into the room (and neighbors) below their baffle-step.

 

Any content (and more importantly distortion) in the 120-400 Hz range is usually the biggest offender. This is typically either from the LCR and subwoofer walking over one another, or running a crossover point that is below ideal for the front three and their boundary relationships.

 

There's a practical limit here of course, and it helps immensely to know first what the system is actually doing via RTA before picking a strategy. Sliding around a few Hz either way can make a profound difference. At this point, all that can be done is to experiment a little. There's nothing to lose.

 

Really clean bass below 100 Hz is not easily localized, so it's a red flag that something is not ideal setup-wise when a neighbor can simply pace around or put their ear to a wall to find the source of the problem. You'll know you've got it in the ball park when you play some really low, loud stuff then step outside and you're more inclined to look up or down rather than directly at something....and the stuff that really slams at the listening position stays inside.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Quiet_Hollow

[Quiet_Hollow]

It also goes without saying that when I state "move the crossover point" that it's not just a matter of adjusting one value in the receiver.

 

Shifting the crossover point involves pushing up the low pass filter controlling the sub (either on the sub amp itself or in the receiver if bypassed) in tandem with the global high pass in the receiver. Then checking phase and re-adjusting trim levels.

 

This can be accomplished by a trained ear, but even a basic SPL meter (calibration not required)  makes this process loads easier.

 

I'd try simply bumping up the global high pass to 125-200 Hz to clean up the 28's output a little...just a hunch.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Quiet_Hollow

[mustang guy]

ELi5 needed . . . somebody

 

I am completely befuddled.

[Quiet_Hollow]

This is one of those tenets of speaker setup that doesn't translate to words easily....books and papers be damned.

 

A few years back, Genelec had available a very nicely illustrated and concise manual on the topic. Even then, it still wasn't exactly "light reading". I'll see if I can find it.

[mustang guy]

Cool thanks. I am trying to wrap my head around this, and as near as I can figure it has to do with the peaks and valleys of overlapping sound waves. Some cancel, and some double. Am I on the right track at least with the fundamentals?

[Quiet_Hollow]

From the Genelec site:

General Setup Guide

 

In addition, there's a lot to glean from reviewing their well-written owners manuals too. They are not shy on explaining things. No  

Monitors

 

Subwoofers

 

These are some of the most practical summaries of the topic I've seen to date. Yet even so, they still miss a few key points with respect to crossover setup.

[mustang guy]

From the Genelec site:

General Setup Guide

 

In addition, there's a lot to glean from reviewing their well-written owners manuals too. They are not shy on explaining things. No

Monitors

 

Subwoofers

 

These are some of the most practical summaries of the topic I've seen to date. Yet even so, they still miss a few key points with respect to crossover setup.

Awesome. I am reading them now.

 

Perhaps I will be able to come back and ELi5. After all, sometimes I feel like a 5 yr old when I read difficult to understand stuff.