InventiveAudio.com Posted September 6, 2002 Author Share Posted September 6, 2002 If by cool you mean enjoying watching movies and television programming at a higher resolution, improved sharpness and clarity, and at the correct aspect ratio as the director originally intended, then yep, thats pretty much why I got my HDTV I'm totally sold on HDTV. Showtime and HBO both have HDTV content and others will eventually jump on board. Even with only a few channels I'm still interested. What I meant is that there is no real compelling argument to buy a WS over a standard set. The penetration of WS TV's is very small in comparison to new sets being sold and old sets in service today. It'll be a long time before we sell WS as "THE" format. Maybe never... Under most circumstances that logic might hold up, but common sense should also anticipate for the future. In the next few years you are going to see a dramatic shift in that percentage swing the other way. I don't agree. There are too many standard sets in service. A simulacst would solve this problem but I doubt that there is enough bandwidth for this. Very true, but the future will always change. At some point you have got to ask yourself How long am I going to sit on the sideline and wait for that next model/upgrade/gadget to come out? There will always be something looming in the horizon or something better right around the corner. Determine what your needs are how much youre willing to spend and what products meet your established criteria then cross the LD and dont look back. As long as you do your homework and resist the urge to impulse buy, in most cases you will not regret your purchase. I've never been on the sidelines. Had one of the first computers and bought my CDROM drive with only 100 titles on the market. Bought one of the first VHS machines and don't believe in waiting. I'm buying a set soon. Yes, its somewhat of an optical illusion. The boxy appearance of the 4:3 TV will give the illusion of making the widescreen image appear smaller than that same image on a 16:9 set. Optical illusion or not the picture takes up the same realestate when a WS set is the same horizontal size as a standard. I don't mind the black lines. How do they combat against pirates stealing programming now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 7, 2002 Author Share Posted September 7, 2002 One quick question: Is all HDTV broadcast in WS? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximilian Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 I just got a new Toshiba 57HDX82. It has a new stretch mode (Theaterwide 1) that stretches a 4:3 picture mostly on the left and right, leaving the center (where most of the content is) pretty much undistorted. I think it looks great. There is enough 16:9 stuff out there that I think you would miss a lot with a 4:3 screen. With the new stretch mode, I don't think there is really a downside to 16:9 except for price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DillonW Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Definitely pay for the HD capability! Even if you do not have HD programming available in your area, many of these HDTV sets up-convert the signal they receive to give you a better picture. The question of 4:3 or 6:9 is a matter of personal preference. I love watching movies, but I am also a huge sports fan. Others in different areas may be different, but there is no such thing as 6:9 HD broadcast hockey games in my area, or football for that matter. Some out there may not mind their sports getting the "squish" of 4:3 programming displayed in 6:9, but it would drive me nuts! And although there is the talk of mandatory digital programming, much of today's broadcasts are digital, but not HD in 6:9 format. I purchased my 4:3 a couple years ago, I still would not trade it for a 6:9, not yet anyway...... but tomorrow might be a different story. Good Luck, its a tough call. ------------------ Thanks, Bill Primary HTS Mains: Black La Scalas Rears: Walnut Belles (Restoring La Scalas for rears) Center: Black KLF C7 (Replaced with Belle soon) Rear Center: None Yet Front Effects: None Yet Sub: Velodyne CT-150 Extra: Black Chorus IIs Receiver: Yamaha RXV3000 TV: HD Toshiba 61" 61H70 DVD: Sony DVP-S560D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by trader: One quick question: Is all HDTV broadcast in WS? Thanks All TRUE HDTV should be 16:9, but no promises. Fox promoted their HDTV wide screen superbowl a year or so ago... turns out it was 720i at best and not TRUE 16:9 all the shows that count, not ricki lake and what not, are 16:9, all that say, Presented in HDTV By (RCA, Zenith, Mitsubishi, etc). I would say 95.5768% are 16:9 ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Not much here has been said about the Hitachi (Super)Ultravision. I own the 61" HDTV set. The picture is fantastic. The smooth wide(converts 4:3 to Widescreen) mode works very well. Keep in mind that no matter what brand you buy if you want to fill the screen you are going to have distortion of the picture. The Hitachi cuts a little off the bottom and streches probably 25% on each side leaving the middle 50% of the screen unaffected. It takes a little getting used to but after awhile you hardley notice. Also the Hitachi's use the best guns available and alot of hitachi comentents are used in the top brands. The lenses are not plastic they are optical grade glass. I am told that Mitsubishi uses Hitachi guns. Also they are the largest guns available 9". Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think all other brands use 7" guns. These two things combined give the Hitachi a superb picture that does not lack in the department of brightness or clarity. Side by side with the Sony I think the Hitachi has a better picture than the sony which seems to wash out a little more. All in all the Hitachi is very good set at a reasonable price. DVD's using comentent Video are so clear it's almost amazing. Big screens have come along way from 5-10 years ago. ------------------ K-horn's(Main) Cornwall's(Rear) Heresey's(Center) KSW-12(Sub) Yamaha HTR 5150 61" Hitachi WIDESCREEN Dish Net w/Opt Out Xbox w/Comp Out(DVD) JVC S-VHS Pioneer 6 Disk CD Sony Minidisk ------------------------- Can you hear me now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinal Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Trader - sounds like maybe you're not sold on the 4:3 set yet afterall (?) If you do go widescreen, make sure to CAREFULLY check out the fill modes on each. I think that my Toshiba has one of the best pictures available, but honestly, the fill mode is what really sets it apart. Most sets have a variable distortion mode that preserves the aspect ratio in the center of the screen, and widens it towards the edges (as discussed above). Toshiba does it MUCH better than any other manufacturer. My friend has an Hitachi unit, and we both agree that Toshiba's fill mode is much better. And if you're thinking that you'll be watching DVDs and such only 10% of the time, this is critical!!! I'll admit that I had underestimated this when purchasing my set, but luckily I happened to choose the best anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 I have two MITS HDTV's, the 46 or is it 43" and the 55 inch, Platinum series. Anywho. I use on the 55" TV my Motorolla HDTV decoder to do the expansion is it looks great, better than the one that MITS provides built in to their tv's. so if you are going with a HDTV receiver and it will do the expansion for you, you may sacrafice the TV's ability to do it properly for a better in the long run TV. That is what I did. ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 Hi all, I just ordered a Toshiba 65HDX82. It's way too big for my room but they will match my K-horns which are also too large for the room. I paid out the kazoo because it has the new DVI/HDCP connection. Dish, Direct TV and the rest of the industry has signed off on this technology as the standard for an uncompressed HD signal. DVI will also allow a host of new intereactive features. Content providers have also endorsed this new standard. If I find the link again I will post it. Every manafacturer is scrambling to get this new technology into their sets. Now I have to wait for an HD direct TV tuner box with the new connection. I think this is good for the industry and maybe now things can take off and people can stop waiting. Also, I went to three different places and in each place I thought the Toshiba and Mitsu had the best pictures. I had to give the nod to the Toshiba. In my Theater magazine the Toshiba and Pioneer Elite sets had the best picture according to a panel of picky judges. I also heard that it's a good idea to get an exteneded warranty. I bought a 4 year one so I'm good for the next 5 years. Sure do love the Plasma sets too. Mac, I was wondering what is in the base of the new Toshiba set that u have. Is it all speakers or more then that. I like that it's seperate from the rest of the set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 About DVI and HDCP http://www.users.freenetname.co.uk/~mcfc/100046.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 It is a one peice deal. Inside of the base are many things. the speakers take up the least amount of space. you have the "receiver" or sorts, taking all those inputs in, an amplifier for the speakers, but mostly the lenses! they take up a lot of the space. I think the 55 inch MITS weighs like 300 lbs. that is a ton!... well not really a ton, about 1700 lbs less than a ton... your tv i THINK is 270 or 280, lift with your legs... hehe i am sure most of the weight comes from the lenses and the apparatus they are on and the mirror(s) but that is a one peice, not a bikini. ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 Justin, The set that I just bought advertises that the base can be seperated from the top monitor. However, I'm sure that they must work together to make the user smile properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 maybe for shipping??? i don't see how in the world they could fit the lenses in the screen section for such a large TV. is there maybe a second section, like for the MITS 46 and smaller projections, that is just a stand? it must be seperatable (new word?) for shipping or something like that. who knows?... i bet Toshiba does hehe. guess what, i could pick this up from the factory in about a 15 minute drive, one of their major headquarters and warehouses is just miles away from me as well as Compaq/HP and a few others. I have a friend who has a job at that Toshiba office. The Compaq/HP place is awesome. Compaq bought out all the land around us and promised never to develop, so it is VERY secluded looking and so very nice. They own a TON of land. Imagine working in a high rise office where instead of seeing another high rise out your window you see birds in their nests and squirrels running through the pine trees. if you are as lucky as to have the office outside the complex, youget the creek... ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 Mac, I'm paying an additional 500.00 to get the DVI connection. It seems like the DVI standard is important from my research. What is your feelings or anyone's? The same set without the DVI is much less. This message has been edited by trader on 09-09-2002 at 06:55 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 DVI is by no means the standard. Too many consumer groups/organizations and companies, specifically Mitsubishi (which by the way is one of the leading sellers of HD RPTVs) is strongly opposed to DVI. DVI benefits no one other than the movie studios and Silicon Image. The limitations DVI imposes are too draconian in its application to benefit the consumer. Mark Cuban owner of HDNet is also against DVI and its copy protection protocols. My gut feeling is that DVI will fall by the wayside as DIVX did several years ago. Its just not in the consumers interest to embrace this technology. If you have any questions on the DVI controversy Ill be more than happy to elaborate further. There are an abundance of articles and discussions on the web that I can point you to. ------------------ Ranger "honesta mors turpi vita potior" Mitsubishi WS65819 Denon AVR 4802 Denon DVD-1600 Denon DCM-370 Sony SCD-CE775 SACD Klipsch RF3II (Mains) Klipsch RC3II (Center) Klipsch RS3II (Surround) SVS 20-39 PCi (Sub) ProntoPro TSU6000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 10, 2002 Author Share Posted September 10, 2002 Do a search on DVI/HDCP and you will see that Echostar, Direct TV, cable companies (supporting both firewire and DVI), Sony, Hitachi, Samsung, JVC, Disney, Fox, Universal, Warner Brothers, etc. have adopted DVI as the standard for HDTV encryption. This was the last stumbling block in mass distribution of HDTV. Content providers don't want to release a master copy of their product. I can't blame them. I'm sure a converter box for older sets will also be developed. Mitsubishi gambled with their adoption of firewire. DVI can handle twice the bandwidth that an HD signal needs. Also, this will allow your TV to do things that it couldn't do before. I hope that DVI and 1080i is it and we can now move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 quote: Do a search on DVI/HDCP and you will see that Echostar, Direct TV, cable companies (supporting both firewire and DVI), Sony, Hitachi, Samsung, JVC, Disney, Fox, Universal, Warner Brothers, etc. have adopted DVI as the standard for HDTV encryption. Ive done the searches and have had many discussions ad nauseam on this issue. Of the eight companies you listed supporting DVI, five of them (Sony, Disney, Fox, Universal, Warner Bros.) are the movie studios of course they are going to support it. I can show you an equal number of companies that support the IEEE/HAVi architecture, including Echostar/Direct TV. quote: This was the last stumbling block in mass distribution of HDTV. Content providers don't want to release a master copy of their product. I can't blame them. I also dont blame them. Ive always supported the studios right to protect their intellectual property from theft, but what I dont support is the manner in how they are trying to do it. The studios have been crying the sky is falling since the Betamax case back in the early eighties. These schmucks have been proclaiming, with the advent of the VCR, that it would destroy Hollywood, but as we all know the contrary has happened. What is so fundamentally different in HD versus VHS other than picture quality? Nothing. In my opinion, this has very little to do about copying movies; its all about control. With the arrival of digital television, Hollywood is attempting to reverse the fair use rights of consumers and in effect control how we use (in the privacy of our homes) our entertainment devices. The potential exists that that new Toshiba with DVI/HDCP architecture you bought will become nothing more than a pay-per-view box. quote: I'm sure a converter box for older sets will also be developed. No doubt, but even with a DVI converter box, the threat exist for legacy HDTV owners (those with analog connections 99%) will have their HD signal downrezzed to 480p thereby neutralizing the main reason most folks bought their HDTV to begin with. Not to mention, the potential is there (switches exist in controller boxes) for content providers to selectively decide which programs you can and cannot watch. quote: Mitsubishi gambled with their adoption of firewire. Everything is a gamble in the consumer electronics industry. From my perspective DVI/HDCP is the gamble because adopting this technology and then changing the rules half way into the game wont sit well with folks that have already made the leap into HDTV. The lawsuits will be enormous. I applaud Mitsubishi for their stance against DVI. Sure, they may have their own financial/business reasons to be against DVI, but they are one of the few companies that have stepped up to the plate to reassure their customers that the HDTV they bought or may buy will not be overcome by obsolescence. Standing up to the MPAA benefits all in the long run because it promotes future innovation by the consumer electronics industry without them having to ask Hollywood for approval with each new gadget that comes out. quote: DVI can handle twice the bandwidth that an HD signal needs. That spin spewed by the pro-DVI/HDCP camp is nothing but pure horse dung. True, while the DVI signal, in its uncompressed state, can handle significantly more bandwidth, the fact is that all HD signals are compressed at some point. The difference between IEEE and DVI is at what point that signal is uncompressed. Its simply just a matter of where the signal is processed. IEEE can more than handle the bandwidth necessary for HDTV. There is no difference in video quality between the two. quote: Also, this will allow your TV to do things that it couldn't do before. Like what? quote: I hope that DVI and 1080i is it and we can now move forward. Then say goodbye in your ability to record a football game while you are at the mall with your wife, or a television program, or pretty much anything that you would like to archive for future viewing. Tell the 3+ million existing HDTV owners that their set will not work in the manner in which it was intended (Oops, so sorry legacy owner sucks to be you). Say goodbye to future innovation unless it has the MPAA stamp of approval. Say goodbye to your existing audio/visual components because DVI/HDCP will not be compatible. Move forward? LOL ------------------ Ranger "honesta mors turpi vita potior" Mitsubishi WS65819 Denon AVR 4802 Denon DVD-1600 Denon DCM-370 Sony SCD-CE775 SACD Klipsch RF3II (Mains) Klipsch RC3II (Center) Klipsch RS3II (Surround) SVS 20-39 PCi (Sub) ProntoPro TSU6000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 10, 2002 Author Share Posted September 10, 2002 Ranger good post: Do a search on DVI/HDCP and you will see that Echostar, Direct TV, cable companies (supporting both firewire and DVI), Sony, Hitachi, Samsung, JVC, Disney, Fox, Universal, Warner Brothers, etc. have adopted DVI as the standard for HDTV encryption. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ive done the searches and have had many discussions ad nauseam on this issue. Of the eight companies you listed supporting DVI, five of them (Sony, Disney, Fox, Universal, Warner Bros.) are the movie studios of course they are going to support it. I can show you an equal number of companies that support the IEEE/HAVi architecture, including Echostar/Direct TV. Ranger: All I know is that I have read a dozen press releases from big name companies who are now incorporating DVI-HDCP into each new set and many other electronics will also have this plug. Maybe instead of saying DVI was adopted as the standard I should have said the current standard. I think that most companies realize that people are waiting for standardization before jumping in and plunking down thousands on a set. I hope DVI is it. That doesn't mean that there isn't room in the back of newer sets for other plugs too. S-Video lives along side component video so why not have several plugs. I would just like the BS to stop and the HD programming to start. quote: I also dont blame them. Ive always supported the studios right to protect their intellectual property from theft, but what I dont support is the manner in how they are trying to do it. The studios have been crying the sky is falling since the Betamax case back in the early eighties. These schmucks have been proclaiming, with the advent of the VCR, that it would destroy Hollywood, but as we all know the contrary has happened. What is so fundamentally different in HD versus VHS other than picture quality? Nothing. In my opinion, this has very little to do about copying movies; its all about control. With the arrival of digital television, Hollywood is attempting to reverse the fair use rights of consumers and in effect control how we use (in the privacy of our homes) our entertainment devices. The potential exists that that new Toshiba with DVI/HDCP architecture you bought will become nothing more than a pay-per-view box. I don't need to tape movies anyway. I watch them once and that's it for a while. If I miss a movie I know it'll be shown 100 times in a month. I think it may play out that you can only record in 480. WOuld that satisfy you? I understand your concern about taping shows and stuff but how does the studio keep the pirates from taping master copies in HD. I'm sure they are losing millions from pirates so this may be the issue. Also, what if a new technology emerges that would give a home user 1 gig a second transfer rates. Now you could tape a move and distribute it on the Net. Music sales are hurting int his country. I wonder how much of its slumping sales is due to napster like sites. Everyone I know has become a crook because of Napster type sites. People have a nature to like things for free. quote: No doubt, but even with a DVI converter box, the threat exist for legacy HDTV owners (those with analog connections 99%) will have their HD signal downrezzed to 480p thereby neutralizing the main reason most folks bought their HDTV to begin with. Not to mention, the potential is there (switches exist in controller boxes) for content providers to selectively decide which programs you can and cannot watch. Hey I bought a Betamax and didn't cry when I couldn't rent movie anymore. What about all the saps who bought an AM radio and couldn't hear FM. Or the dummies who bought into 8 track tapes or LD. New technologies emerge and we must move on. Them the breaks. I wish I had a better answer. Hopefully converter boxes can help these people out. My DVI could fall to the wayside too. Them the chances we take. quote: Mitsubishi gambled with their adoption of firewire. Everything is a gamble in the consumer electronics industry. Not toally true. There are times when an industry realizes it was standardize to move forward and too make money. From my perspective DVI/HDCP is the gamble because adopting this technology and then changing the rules half way into the game wont sit well with folks that have already made the leap into HDTV. The lawsuits will be enormous. Lets hope not. I would bet that there will be free HDTV to satisfy these owners too. Then waht. Will they still wine and sue for all the channels. All they will do is delay progress and waste time. I applaud Mitsubishi for their stance against DVI. I read that Mitsubishi said that it would offer a DVI upgrade if necessary. I don't think they are against it. I think the gambled on a technology that was passed on my some heavy weights in the industry. The big boys make the rules and everyone else follows or dies trying to break the mold. Sure, they may have their own financial/business reasons to be against DVI, but they are one of the few companies that have stepped up to the plate to reassure their customers that the HDTV they bought or may buy will not be overcome by obsolescence. They will charge you for the guarantee. However, it;s nice to have the reassurance. Standing up to the MPAA benefits all in the long run because it promotes future innovation by the consumer electronics industry without them having to ask Hollywood for approval with each new gadget that comes out. Why shouldn't Hollywood have a voice. It's there content that gets copied and distributed. The providers have nothing to lose. The developers must protect their investments. Who would u like to make the standards and decide what copy right protestion to use? If you developed software wouldn't you want to protect your code? Why would u leave it up to someone else? quote: DVI can handle twice the bandwidth that an HD signal needs. That spin spewed by the pro-DVI/HDCP camp is nothing but pure horse dung. True, while the DVI signal, in its uncompressed state, can handle significantly more bandwidth, the fact is that all HD signals are compressed at some point. You said it was dung and then you said it was true. I read the white papers on DVI/HDCP and it is quite impressive. It can actually handle twice the bandwidth needed for an HDTV signal. The difference between IEEE and DVI is at what point that signal is uncompressed. Its simply just a matter of where the signal is processed. IEEE can more than handle the bandwidth necessary for HDTV. There is no difference in video quality between the two. Hey, I don't give a rats ***. You're defending a technology that seems to have been passed up for the most part. There are some sets with firewire. Maybe both formats cna live side by side or perhps DVI will emerge as the standard. Only time will tell but all the big TV makers are including DVI and the distributors and content providers are giving their approval. I hope this is it for a while. quote: Also, this will allow your TV to do things that it couldn't do before. Like what? Well there will be more bandwidth for faster and more robust interfaces, the ability to interact with game shows, download music, send photos, shop, etc. quote: I hope that DVI and 1080i is it and we can now move forward. Then say goodbye in your ability to record a football game while you are at the mall with your wife, or a television program, or pretty much anything that you would like to archive for future viewing. Tell the 3+ million existing HDTV owners that their set will not work in the manner in which it was intended (Oops, so sorry legacy owner sucks to be you). Say goodbye to future innovation unless it has the MPAA stamp of approval. Say goodbye to your existing audio/visual components because DVI/HDCP will not be compatible. Move forward? LOL The set I ordered has DVI but will also support my stereo, DVD, and VHS player. If I can't tape I will live. I'm sure a dwon rez version will be allowed to be taped and older sets will have limited HD viewing. Sometimes you can't accomodate everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 quote: I don't need to tape movies anyway. I watch them once and that's it for a while. If I miss a movie I know it'll be shown 100 times in a month. I think it may play out that you can only record in 480. WOuld that satisfy you? You may not have the desire to tape, but others will. Personally, I havent taped anything for over 10 years, but I like the flexibility if one day I ever needed to. As far as being able to record in 480p? No, that would not satisfy me. Consumers should be able to record within the capabilities of current technology. I dont need Hollywood to dictate to me whats acceptable and what is not. If Hollywood wants to pout in the corner and not play ball, then thats fine by me. In our competitive society, there will be more than enough hungry entrepreneurs ready to fill that void. HDNet as an example. Hollywood should keep up with the progress of technology, not vice versa. These guys are always slow to accept new technology. They absolutely hate to think outside the box at different business models and would prefer to keep things at status quo. quote: I understand your concern about taping shows and stuff but how does the studio keep the pirates from taping master copies in HD. I'm sure they are losing millions from pirates so this may be the issue. The onus of combating piracy falls on the shoulders of the MPAA/RIAA. This can be done through passive measures such as strict enforcement of existing copy protection laws or through active measures like building controls within the CD/DVD itself that prevents the source player from making duplicate copies. However, hamstringing the consumer electronics industry with paranoid copy protection protocols is not the answer. Its expensive and slows down progress through legal hassles, expensive add on protocols and competing standards. Historically, these piracy counter-measures become obsolete even before the first electronic items hit the shelf. quote: Also, what if a new technology emerges that would give a home user 1 gig a second transfer rates. Now you could tape a move and distribute it on the Net. Music sales are hurting int his country. I wonder how much of its slumping sales is due to napster like sites. Everyone I know has become a crook because of Napster type sites. People have a nature to like things for free. Quite the contrary, there are reports that show the opposite is happening. If the entertainment industry truly wants to combat piracy, then lower the cost of media at the marketplace. Make it such, that it becomes cost ineffective to steal music and movies. quote: Hey I bought a Betamax and didn't cry when I couldn't rent movie anymore. What about all the saps who bought an AM radio and couldn't hear FM. Or the dummies who bought into 8 track tapes or LD. New technologies emerge and we must move on. Them the breaks. I wish I had a better answer. Hopefully converter boxes can help these people out. My DVI could fall to the wayside too. Them the chances we take. Buying a Betamax is slightly different than purchasing a high dollar HDTV. For many folks this is not a you took a chance and lost proposition. We are not talking about newer-better technology. If they come out with a 10,000 lines of resolution TV then thats an improved technology. DVI/HDCP is not new technology. It is draconian controls placed at the insistence of the entertainment industry late into the game to monopolize how consumers utilize their electronic products in the privacy of their homes. Its all about control and that is what I hate not obsolescence. quote: Lets hope not. I would bet that there will be free HDTV to satisfy these owners too. Then waht. Will they still wine and sue for all the channels. All they will do is delay progress and waste time. I hope so. More than likely there will be free HDTV, but the issue is not a bunch of whining consumers clamoring for gazillion free channels of HDTV; its the controls that the entertainment industry wants to emplace. The only people delaying HDTV progress are the entertainment industry. quote: I read that Mitsubishi said that it would offer a DVI upgrade if necessary. I don't think they are against it. I think the gambled on a technology that was passed on my some heavy weights in the industry. The big boys make the rules and everyone else follows or dies trying to break the mold. So far, the official policy at Mitsubishi is that they WILL NOT offer or integrate DVI into past, present or future HDTV sets. quote: Why shouldn't Hollywood have a voice. It's there content that gets copied and distributed. The providers have nothing to lose. The developers must protect their investments. Who would u like to make the standards and decide what copy right protestion to use? If you developed software wouldn't you want to protect your code? Why would u leave it up to someone else? Hollywood should have a voice. However, not at the expense of consumers fair use rights or electronic industry innovation. As far as who should decide the standard? Simple let the free market economy and innovation decide what the standard should be. This is precisely what Hollywood is afraid will happen. They like the existing business model and are reluctant to deviate from it. quote: You said it was dung and then you said it was true. I read the white papers on DVI/HDCP and it is quite impressive. It can actually handle twice the bandwidth needed for an HDTV signal. This may sound contradicting, but its not. Perhaps I didnt explain my position well enough. Ill take another stab at it. While its true that DVI can carry a significant amount of bandwidth (which the pro-DVI camp likes to proclaim), what they conveniently like to leave out is at what point the signal is uncompressed and sent to the monitor/TV. Typical legalese spin. Tell only part of the truth without elaborating on the big picture or how it differs from competing technologies. Another way to look at it is say DVI: 4+1=5 where as IEEE: 1+4=5. The DVI camp will harp on the value 4 being so much greater than the IEEE value of 1. What they intentionally exclude to tell you are that in the end both technologies still end up with a value of 5. DVI and 1394 IEEE are no different performance wise. Whats different is at what point the signal is uncompressed and processed. Both just have different ways of dealing with the signal. As far as DVI being impressive, well go to any of the home theater web sites and talk to some of the more knowledgeable folks on there. To them, its like comparing Bose to Klipsch, B&K, or Snell. DVI is dumb-down technology. Its one-way, not backwards compatible, restricted to short cable lengths (typically no more than 6 feet in length), and in general not as flexible when interacting with other components. quote: Hey, I don't give a rats ***. You're defending a technology that seems to have been passed up for the most part. There are some sets with firewire. Maybe both formats cna live side by side or perhps DVI will emerge as the standard. Only time will tell but all the big TV makers are including DVI and the distributors and content providers are giving their approval. I hope this is it for a while. You should give a rats ***. I am not defending the technology, I could care less about IEEE, but rather I am defending the principle. I am against anyone or anything that greedily wants to stomp on the rights of consumers, innovation, and the free market. This is what the entertainment industry intends to do if we let them. This principle extends way beyond our TV sets. In their desire to corner the market on their product these greedy schmucks want to extend their reach not only into our TV sets, but our computers (with strict controls on how we access the internet for instance), our AV receivers (what types of signals are processed through them again under the guise of copyright protection), even our toaster ovens if the entertainment industry views it as a threat. quote: Well there will be more bandwidth for faster and more robust interfaces, the ability to interact with game shows, download music, send photos, shop, etc. Considering how its one-way technology I dont know how that would be possible. quote: I'm sure a dwon rez version will be allowed to be taped and older sets will have limited HD viewing. Sometimes you can't accomodate everyone. Why should we have only the ability to tape a down rezzed version? Thats ridiculous. Older sets have limited HD viewing? Thats not why consumers bought their HDTV to begin with. Having my television become obsolete because of better technology is one thing. Restricting my HDTV to take full advantage of what it is capable of is another. Its all about fairness and standing up for what is right. Im not a criminal or a pirate and Im tired of Hollywood treating us as such. It seems clear the both of us are on opposite sides of the fence on this. Im please we could discuss this without it denigrating into a flame war. However, Im coming down with a cold and not feeling well so I will bow out of this discussion. Enjoy your HDTV. ------------------ Ranger "honesta mors turpi vita potior" Mitsubishi WS65819 Denon AVR 4802 Denon DVD-1600 Denon DCM-370 Sony SCD-CE775 SACD Klipsch RF3II (Mains) Klipsch RC3II (Center) Klipsch RS3II (Surround) SVS 20-39 PCi (Sub) ProntoPro TSU6000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 11, 2002 Author Share Posted September 11, 2002 I did another search for DVI and all the big name companies are adding it to their 2002 lineup. Here is a one year article about DVI. Digital Visual Interface: a fix for what ails HDTV By Parviz Khodi EE Times May 21, 2001 (10:07 a.m. EST) With lackluster sales of high-definition television (HDTV) devices and the dearth of HDTV programming, the HDTV industry faces a classic chicken-and-egg scenario. Satellite and cable providers won't provide more channels of HD content until the viewership increases. Consumers won't buy an expensive HDTV until compelling HD content becomes available. And HDTVs won't become more affordable until demand increases. The industry needs a killer application to turn the tide-and premium Hollywood content in HD format is the ticket. Hollywood studios want to release their premium HD content for home viewing, but are concerned about revenue loss due to piracy and copyright infringement. The Digital Visual Interface (DVI) with high-bandwidth digital content protection (HDCP) offers a viable solution. The majority of Motion Picture Association studios, as well as satellite TV operator Echostar and consumer electronics manufacturer Thomson, publicly support DVI/HDCP. JVC and Scientific Atlanta are developing HDCP-enabled set-top boxes (STBs) and HDTVs as well. DVI is the ideal digital interface for connecting a video source device-such as an STB, DVD player or D-VHS player-to an HD display. Only DVI has the bandwidth to accommodate uncompressed, HD digital video transmission in the encrypted format preferred by studios. That capability offers cost and performance advantages over IEEE 1394, which requires that MPEG decoding capability be added to the HDTV. Decoding video in this manner renders the HDTV vulnerable to obsolescence due to potential video format changes. It is preferable to have intelligence reside in the STB rather than the HDTV, since TVs have a longer life span and require a larger investment. DVI also supports video menu overlays, which enable popular features like Web browsing, picture-in-picture graphics and robust menu graphic user interfaces. DVI/HDCP protects content but does not preempt consumer rights to record or time-shift video content for personal use. DVI/HDCP does not impact the and functionality of upstream devices such as personal video recorders or digital VCRs, which are independent of the DVI connection to the HDTV. DVI/HDCP fulfills the promise of HDTV by providing access to premium content that would otherwise be unavailable. We believe DVI will win as the mainstream solution for the digital interface to the HDTV because it accommodates uncompressed video-HD video's native format-is low-cost and easy to implement. DVI/HDCP is also future-proof, and with a DVI solution that integrates audio and video (A/V), cabling can be reduced to a single, universal DVI cable between the source device or A/V receiver and the display. Finally, DVI has the endorsement of the studios, critical for any future digital interface standard for the consumer electronics market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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