Building cabinets for in wall speakers

[dsommerl]

I am tweaking my 7.1 Klipsch speaker array for cosmetic purposes. Am thinking about buying a pair of Klipsch in walls either Reference or Synergy---probably the RCW-5 model and constructing cabinets for them versus installing in wall (the wall location needed has iron supports in the wall---can't do an in wall install where these need to go)

Has anyone ever done this? Is there any downside to doing this (construction tips to assure maximum quality sound etc)"

My goal is to end up with an installation which is much less obtrusive than the two Academy's I currently have mounted on support shelves on the back wall of this room. I figure that by building some cabinets for these in walls and painting them and their grills to match the walls--I'd have the flattest and least obtrusive installation possible.

OR are their "flat" speakers available (other brands) that will serve my purpose.

Any help, advice or thoughts will be appreciated

Tks Dave

[DrWho]

how do you plan on mounting these cabinets once they're made? you might be better off purchasing RB-5's or something like that, instead of trying to make your own cabinet.

[dsommerl]

Dr.

First, my plan would be to build these cabinets out of a paint grade wood and to install a masonite type material back so that the empty cabinet shell could be mounted to the wall--hopefully into studs and then the inwall speaks could be installed into the "empty" wood box cavaties. Then the entire "cabinet" could be painted to match the wall.

As the RCW 5's are only 6 lbs each--and the cabinet shell will be about 1 or 2 lbs--I'd think it could mount fairly easily without the need for a support shelf.

The end result would be the flattest possible suface mount speaker possible yet still Klipsch sound--to best timbre match my all Klipsch array (all Heresy II"s---F/L mains, center and side L/R surrounds)

Am considering the RCW 5's reference model as they appear on EBay often----but, maybe the Synergy versions would be a better match for my Heresy's----any thoughts on this?

Am I making any sense, so far?

[hwatkins]

Hello Dave - hard to say from the specs. I am dangerous here as I have only built one speaker todate, but working on more. I have read alot but cannot claim to not misinterpret what I think I know.

Since the in wall is set up as an infinite baffle - IB (basically a free air unit) I am not sure what happens when you close the box. This is of no consequence (or more precisely very little consequence) with the tweeter, but may well have some effect on the woofer. Klipsch doe not put the Theile/Small measurements on the site, but if someone in tech support can pass that to you for this woofer you can simulate the effect of a closed/sealed box. With the specs you can also simulate the effect of a port if the low freqs are of importance (quite honestly - if set to run small I would not bother). There is no reason you can't design an approriate box, just don't know what size it would have to be to sound best.

A simple solution to the IB would be to open the back of your enclosure to the the wall interior between the studs - this would closely aproximate the free space these units were designed to work in. I would only be a little concerned about baffle mounting, but it can cause some anomalies if done poorly or doesn't match, but I assume the baffle is incorporated in the speaker.

I think it is a great idea and let us know how it turns out. Also - let us homeboys know when you want to sell those Academys

[dsommerl]

Hi Henry

By the way, how did you Heresy Center reconfig project ever work out?

Thanks for the thoughtful reply---you've given alot to research. I just assumed (oh, oh) that if I built a box with the approximate depth of the wall cavity then I'd be okay. I went over to Ultimate E to check out their RCW 5's hoping to get to check the owners manual--but they somehow didn't have one.

Do you know that when doing an in wall install---do you remove the insulation? (I'd assume you do).

Also, I wonder if the Reference in walls are over kill and maybe I should save some $ and get the Synergy's---after all, these are rear channel speakers---thus the least important as far as I know--what do you think?

Again, I'm just trying to get to the least obtrusive wall hanging speaks I can come up with. By going the in wall route (though I can't put them in wall where I need to place them) and coming up with the right "box" for them--I can paint them to match the wall and have a thin box (versus a bookshelp type speak).

Any other thoughts / input is appreciated.

TKs Dave

[dsommerl]

Also, why would my enclosed box/cabinet concept be any different than the in wall install between the studs?

By free air---do you mean the area in the wall above and below the speaker--between the studs? (thus I guess the instructions call for removing the insulation above and below the speaker with in the wall cavity)

Any thoughts?

Thanks Dave

[DrWho]

let's see if i can draw a pic with text...

(the vertical lines are the wall from the side)

will the final result look something like this?

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or will it be something more like this?

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on the first design, you could maintain the infinite baffel by creating a hole in the wall and speaker cabinet, like this:

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on the second design, you could try something like this:

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] ]__

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] ]----

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I hope this helps...I think your best option is to try and maintain the infinite baffel that these speakers were designed for. But if cutting into the wall and all that is not an option, I would then suggest trying to find the specs of the woofer so you could build the cabinet with good dimensions...granted, it probably won't make that huge of a difference, but it would be taking a risk by just slapping together any size box and all that...the cabinet plays a large role in the sound the speaker makes. recently, i carelessly built a sealed cabinet for speakers designed for an infinite baffel, and they sound much worse than they did without a cabinet. no need to worry though, you've got a great idea going!

[dsommerl]

Dr Who

Wow! That is extremely informative--thanks so much for the effort--especially for the line draw pics

The end result needs to be as in pic 1. Again, the need is created because of two steel support posts in each of the desired rear speaker wall locations (can't recess the speaker into the cavity)

It wouldn't be any problem to cut out the drywall however to "open up the cavity" and then surface mount my cabinet structure over that opening.

I suppose I should create a drywall opening of roughtly the same size as the speaker itself and will thus need to make the surfact mount boxes/cabinets slightly larger--in order to be able to mount them on the remaining drywall.

Again, there are steel posts inside the wall cavity I will expose---it will not just be a free air cavity as a normal studded wall. Do you think that the steel posts will pose any problem for the woofer? AND should I remove any fiberglass insulation in that cavity?

Thanks Dave

[hwatkins]

Hello Dave - Yep on the center. A picture is attached (a black grille cover went on before it went on top of TV). It is a very good change for my system and is now turned on for music as well. The Xover, Tweeter and sqwuaker are direct matches to the Heresy. The woofers are Fostex and carry a very similar efficiency when wired in parallel. Since I manage to the sub at 80 hz they are a very responsive match to the K-22 on the Heresy - but if you listen closely you can tell a difference around 100hz.

So I have learned a bunch. I am building the cabinets this afternoon for my new project - 2pi studio speakers. This can eventually go to school with my daughter.

As to infinite baffle (real IB is open with nothing around it for quite some range)- granted the cavity isn't much, but it allows the back wave to disipate without affecting the overall movement of the woofer. When you put a box around that the chances increase that there is an effect that may cause some problems (where the woofer wants to move back and is met by a sound wave pushing it forward). If the box is big enough, most of this would be mitigated. Opening to the wall would solve this.

Insulation is generally not a problem. It is often used in speakers to increase the percieved box size - in essence, part of that back wave is absorbed and not fighting the cone's excursion.

This is probably as easy as you think - I would just open the wall cavity - the metal should not cause a problem...

Now as to those Acadameys - ready to sell? If I build the box for your new speakers will you give me the Academys (just a thought)

[dsommerl]

Tks Henry

So, you'd leave any insulation in the wall cavity?

As for the resultant "residual" Academy's---not sure yet what I'll do with them---may just move them into my office--it took alot of E Bay effort to land the two--plus I'd probably have to refinish one of them back to satin black.

They both work perfectly and the cabinets are in A shape structurally.

Don't worry--if/when I put them on the market--you will be among the first to know---they are the ideal match to Heresys---if one can't use a Heresy center---in fact--the difference is actually negligible---how's that for my opening E Bay sales pitch? :^)

[hwatkins]

I can't come up with a good reason to remove the insulation. At the worst you listen with and without to see what you like best.

I was smiling and had tongue firmly in cheek about the Academys. I am in a speaker building kick for now. A set of horns with cone woofer after this pair, then on to a three way horn set up - maybe all wood horns.

I hate myself when I get this way....

[dsommerl]

Yo Henry

I know you were kidding---however, being a devout Capitalist--I imagine that I'll be putting them up on E Bay at some point--as yesterday, I went ahead and bagged a pair of RCW-5's on EBay--so, there's no turning back now.

Of course, I'll sure give all the Klipschters their fair shot at them if/when I elect to move the Academies

Have been away from this board for awhile--great to be back with my new Klipsch project/challenge---and to have gotten all the great advice and direction.

Thanks alot for your help!

[dsommerl]

Okay I'm back---am finally getting around to this installation---purchased a pair of RCW-5's and now ready to go. I have just cut out the drywall where I want these mounted----sure enough--the metal post is right in the middle----as expected. I held up a spkr and the magnet on the woofer literally stuck to the post----almost was able to walk away from it----

Is this going to be a problem in speaker performance, longevity etc----should I worry about some how shielding the spkr magnet from this post? (if so, any suggestions on what material--how to do that?)

Any advise, really appreciated---am looking at a hole in my wall

Tks Dave

[DrWho]

nah, no worries with the metal poles...it's just magnetism

btw, what's running through the poles?

[dsommerl]

Dr Who

The metal poles are hollow---they support a steel header over the double doors (a pole on each side where the speakers need to mount). It's a structural thing when the house was built---then there is a steel I beam which spans the room to support the second floor.

Wanting to make sure that the magnetism thing would effect the life of the speaker or it's performance. According Henry W also a poster on this board---there is no problem as long as the magnets are not actually in contact with the metal pole---are kept off of them by a 1/2" or so---which they will end up being.

So, I am proceeding on plan---let me know if I am wrong or if you have any other thoughts

Tks for checking in on my post

[DrWho]

any more thoughts? pictures would be cool (once u got it built of course)

i've been interested in a similar idea, so im eager to hear positive results

[dsommerl]

Doc Who

Good idea---I am almost finished---but will take some pics of the wood "shells" now mounted on the wall ready for final painting---then a finished product pic--so far it's working per plan. Should have everything back together in a couple more days and will reply again then.

[dsommerl]

Doc Who--and all

Okay--finally finished. You asked for a pic--here is one that is most illustrative of the structure---can post other pics if you'd like.

The process was--I cut out the drywall for each speaker using the supplied plastic frame as a template. Using clear pine--I bought 1X 2's for the flat framing pieces and 1X4's for the pieces coming out from the wall--I affixed these at 90 degree angles to the "frame"--flat pieces on the wall (the 1X2's). Using a compound power mitre saw--I mitred all corners and using the plastic mounting frame as a template cut the 1X4's into 4 pcs---trying to get them to fit as tightly as possible to the frame. I made a square jig on my workbench to form a 90 degree angle--so I could make sure I was getting square on each corner. Then I did the same with the 1X2's--fitting those four pieces up to the 1X4's--kind of like a picture frame (laying flat on the bench--and eventually the wall).

Then all were glued and screwed together with all the exposed screws counter sunk. Removed the plastic frame--let it dry (liquid nails) and then mounted each on the wall by wood screws for one side and lag bolts on the other side(where I couldn't hit studs). The plastic frame was then inserted into each "box" and secured with small wood screws from the outside---countersunk. Then spent some time filling all countersinks with plastic wood type material--and patched the drywall where needed--- then sanded down the plastic wood flush--primed the bare wood and drywall patch--then two finish coats of latex matching wall paint.

Then simply installed each speaker into the plastic frame with the supplied screws---into the existing mounting holes on each frame. Then sprayed the metal grills with Rust Oluem--a brown color---and it was a done deal.

This site limits the amount of KB you can upload--so, if you want to see more pics--I have them--could only fit one into the maximum allowed

So, thanks to all for the great advice and guidance----the end result was a very finished looking and well functioning pair of RCW-5's in slim cabinets---which only protrude from the wall by 3.5". They now blend into the decor vs the big brown boxes (Academies on shelves) I was using for the rear effects speakers.

Dave

[dsommerl]

Here is another pic--the last one didn't really show the metal pole support post which caused this craziness---The RCW 5's have an installed total depth of 3.75"--therefore, the 1X4 pieces coming out from the wall are actual 3.5" dimension--plus the 3/4" drywall thickness--still leaves each speak's woof magnet about 1/2" off of each metal pole.

It's a real clean looking set up now--and a real home decor plus (don't have to look at those Academy big brown boxes sitting on shelves halfway up the wall anymore)

Tks again, Dave

[dsommerl]

Here is one last pic-----all that's left from this one is to press in the metal mesh grills---they are now paint drying and will be on at the end of today

As you can see---this was my only mounting alternative due to all of the glass---the only other place would have been in the far corners and too far from the listening sofa--and also too close to the "side" surround Heresey II's.

Again, the rear effects spkrs are the least critical in a 7.1 set up---having now recalibrated them to my system vs the Academies---I can't tell any difference on the few movies utilizing the 7.1 software.

Over and out--Dave