kjohnsonhp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I've spent the past few weeks posting and reading about tube pre-amps for my ST-70 and Cornwalls. I wasn't satisfied with the stock PAS3 and I found the Scott 222c int. was an improvement over using my Outlaw AVR w/the St-70 plus I always felt I needed a tube pre to mate with the tube amp. I also needed a phono stage and using a 1985 hitachi receiver as phono input to the Outlaw wasn't ideal. I shopped for the Cary SLP-70 (Kelly recommendation) but the two I found didn't have phono (30 days later Cary returns my email to say $300 is the factory upgrade cost). I would have done that but too late. I went to my local hifi boutique and was given one option: $2500 AR SP16...a bit steep since I still needed a TT. You probably saw me inquire about Kurato, Maple Tree Audio Design, Audible Illusions, Wright Sound, and others including line stages with $600 add-on phonos by other firms. I am especially curious about 80's/early 90's gear such as the AR sP3 w/factory upgrade but that added up to around $1200 I believe. I don't have time to build a kit and I like the vintage looks/collectibility better than a kit (even if it's a kit that looks vintage). My struggle was not being able to hear anything..just read. Hearing the Scott 222c probably helped justify going the Scott route. In the end I decided that the vintage tube sound of a Scott pre-amp would be a good match for the Cornwalls. It would also be consistent with my ST-70 and with some updates to the ST-70 I hope to have a combo that is better sounding that a Scott integrated. What sealed the deal was my attraction to the vintage looks and collectibility of the Scott 355 with way cool am/fm dial tuner on the pre-amp. I figure with the Corns, Dynaco and scott, I'll have an all vintage setup of tubes and horns that should be similar to that old British sports car we discussed--enjoyable in a different way to modern vehicles. I'll save the modern gear for an all modern system (I'm currently interested in hearing ribbon tweeters like the VMPS, Legacy Audio, Onix Strata, etc.). For that system I'd like to try SS like HALO A23, Odyessy Stratos, or mbl with a modern pre-amp like the Kurato, mbl, Odyessy tempest, AR, etc. But then I'm getting ahead of myself. I hope my Scott/Dynaco/Cornwall system will be a good sounding, collectible, and overall great value in audio compared to modern alternatives in a similar price range. I'm 9 months and 700+ posts into the Klipsch forum experience. It has taken me down a different path than had I not found this forum. W/o the forum I would have driving a modern system like those discussed on the AVS forum or your local dealer. My experience with Klipsch was from the 80's with Cornwalls and a Carver M1.5 and C500 w/NAD preamp. I probably would have tried Carver w/corns again and potentially resold the gear and moved on to all new gear after the trial as many look back to the 80s and perceive Carver/Klipsch wasn't necessarily the best combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Kj, So you scored the ultra cool 355 tuner preamp combo congrats ! How did the Live auction work out I have never experienced one of those ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 Here are my comments on live auctions. 1. the ebay absentee process is like an ebay auction where everyone uses auctionsniper.com. The min bid is posted along with an estimated range. Everyone puts in a secret max bid. When the live bidding starts the high bid is listed as opening bid from internet bidder. Those on the floor and those on-line can then bid against it. I was high bid and one floor bid pushed me up the next increment to my max bid and then the auction closed. 2. LIVE bidding. This is really quick. Each auction is less than 60 secs...they do about 80 auctions in an hour. I watched the auctions flash across my screen and when the bidding started you need to be fast or the screen will say about to close....closed and on to the next auction. There was a lot of internet and floor bidding. The floor bidding would be low usually...when a lot would open and stall at a real low price...the internet bidding was often what push the price. 3. PRICES - most of the items closed within the estimated range. Some opened below min bid but got pushed up by the bargain hunters to min bid. It was fun to watch. SOmetimes you would see an auction at a low price and be tempted to bid before it closed...but I didn't. 4. product - there were a lot of bulk tube auctions, antique radio and vintage hifi. ISSUES: 1. Buyer's premium of 15%--add that to shipping and you have to be careful in setting your max bids. LIKES: 1. responded to my presales questions, no PayPal fees, shipping was fair, good service so far. I'm not sure if the unit would have gone higher on a regular ebay auction or not. The absentee bidding prevented the bidding from creeping up over the 7 days on ebay. the min bid was real low and the estimated price range seemed conservative so maybe some folks thought there max was high enough when given the knowledge of my bid maybe they would have gone higher. They could have done that live (in person or internet) but many many not be able to sit by the PC mid-day on Saturday--or want to--or remember to. There was a lot of tubes and vintage gear so I assume there were a lot of collectors and knowledgeable buyers watching. I wasn't expecting a bargain but hopefully not the price where hunger buyers like me bid the auction way above what a more seasoned collector/reseller would pay. Those lots that don't recieve min bids open at $5...a few, very few closed below min bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 How do you like the Scott 355? I recently bought a combo 355/208, sent it to Craig, and am stewing in my own excitement. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3058630542&category=50593&rd=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Did I tell email you its here !! I am currently sick as a dog ! worst cold I have had in 5 years darn cigarettes ! I like the 355's preamp section better then my 130 if that helps you ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Curious, what did you find wrong with the EICO HF-85 preamp? A lot of guys in the Far East are modifying these things and liking the sound. Many here have done it as well. For vintage, I would have thought that old unit would make a good base as well. As for tuner preamp combos, I just dont like this generally for several reasons. First and formost, the TUBE TUNER is a BEAST! They almost ALWAYS need calibrating with only a few hardy souls willing to do it (or are any GOOD at it). I love the sound of tube tuners, but damn if they seemingly arent a mess and need some work by these tube tuner guru freaks. PRoblem, say goodbuy to your preamp while it's gone. I just like separating the tuner from the preamp. Scott made some very nice tube tuners. I just dont like them in the same case. Also, I am one for preferring ONE POWER supply for one piece of gear. NOt critical with your app, but I prefer this. As for the Scott pres, Craig knows a lot more than I do in this area. Are the Scott pre sections using ALL TRIODE? I havent researched it. I know their integrateds dont do this but still get good sound. Still, the ALL TRIODE section in a pre is important to me and I think to sonics. To be honest, I really prefer modern tube preamps. I love vintage tube amps, but the vintage preamps seem to have too many switches, filters, tone controls, lame pots, etc etc. This post reads like a bummer. My bet and hope is you get some nice sound here. All in all, I prefer to ditch all the controls besides volume and source, which means modern. But many others prefer otherwise. kh PS - Be glad you didnt waste that many ducats on the MODERN Audio Research pre. That would have been a travesty of money down the proverbial drain in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I personally think the HF85 is one of EICO's greatest products. I sold mine and wish I never did. The biggest problem with the HF85 is the same as all EICO products! Cheap darn parts throughout! I truly believe if someone was to take that basic circuit design and build it on another chassis with top notch controls especially it would be a major player! Hey maybe I should do that! The thing about it just like the HF81 is your into the skill of the original builder and the storage the preamp went through in its life whether the control work as intended. Standard controls made today will not fit the chassis! Is it a better circuit then the Scotts? Hard to tell with the nasty controls in the circuit. The Scotts are a safer bet that you will get a good one.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 ---------------- On 12/4/2003 11:00:11 AM NOSValves wrote: Did I tell email you its here !! I am currently sick as a dog ! worst cold I have had in 5 years darn cigarettes ! I like the 355's preamp section better then my 130 if that helps you ! Craig ---------------- Yeah, I got that email! Sorry to hear you are sick. Is that a side effect of Khorns? Kelly, that was not a bummer of a post.. you are just stating your preferences. I'm all growed up now and can handle dissent. I've read that some of the tubes are hard to find, but those articles are several years old. Is this true? Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 "The thing about it just like the HF81 is your into the skill of the original builder and the storage the preamp went through in its life whether the control work as intended. Standard controls made today will not fit the chassis! Is it a better circuit then the Scotts? Hard to tell with the nasty controls in the circuit. The Scotts are a safer bet that you will get a good one." Those who own Scott think Scott is the best and those who own EICO think EICO is the best. They're all swear by them. I think neither are the best. They each have their own merits and problems. Some will prefer one over the other depends on the sonic characteristics they're looking for. I got both, so I have the best! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Kelly and others actually the Scott integrated amps have an all triode preamp section the only none triode part is in the driver section of the phase splitter before the signal gets divided for the push pull output tubes it is a pentode section. Its really a none issue really since the outputs are pentode. The Scott Preamps and almost every preamp I have ever run across is all triode. I have found the Alignment issue is not a problem as long as some hack hasn't went in there twisting the settings around the Scott's seem to hold there alignment pretty darn good. Of coarse I do not align FM and warn everyone before sending gear with FM sections that I do not and should be very careful who they send them to because I agree its a black art and should be done by a true FM alignment specialist that is proficient in it not just a I can do anything tube tech type.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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