Mighty Favog Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I recently upgraded from using a Carver Receiver MXR-150 to a Craver C-1 Preamp and a Rotel RB-1080 amp. Since then the mids and highs have been, well....a lot more noticable (hell, they're downright bright!) than ever. However the bass seams to have dropped off a bit. Cound this be from the receiver (maybe, I dunno) having a low amperage output and the Rotel being a high output? To find the perfect speaker placement while using the receiver I drew up an Excel speadsheet and took SPL readings from 2" side wall and 2" rear wall all the way out to 14" side and 14" rear using 1" increments (ie: 2"X2", 2"X3", 2"X4" etc.). After all that the data was put in to a 3-D graph and the correct position came clear. Granted, this all took over 4 hours to do and to get the little woman out of her own house for that long is a feet by itself. So does new equipment have this type of characteristics? ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany Carver C-1 Rotel RB1080 Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Carver TL-3100 CD Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 300 mk II Original 12ga. Monster Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Gee, I'd be at a loss to try and offer a "why", but all I know is, practically anything can make a audible difference with sound. Thing is, "normal" people don't notice/care about those differences, and us obsessive audiophiles, uh, obsess over them. I use RPG Pro Foam on my music rooms walls, and different placement and thickness makes huge differences in the sound. As does movements of even less than a foot in listening position, relative to the speakers and walls. Maybe someone else can offer a valid opinion on your equipment performance and interaction. I do know the Rotel amps are always highly rated. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 I'm not sure that the Carver C-1 pre is any better than the preamp section in the MXR-150... I have a C-1 (currently sitting in my attic) and I always found the high end to be rather hard, and also thought the circuitry was quite noisey (there's a LOT of stuff crammed in there) and thought the bass a bit on the soft side. The RB-1080 is definately a step up. You might want to try taking the preamp out from the receiver (if there is one) and run THAT into the Rotel, and see how using the MXR-150 as a PREAMP compares to using the C-1. Should help you focus on which component is doing what to the sound. Not too clear on what you meant by "...took SPL readings from 2" side wall and 2" rear wall all the way out to 14" side and 14" rear using 1" increments...". Does that mean that you stopped after measuring out to 14" away from the wall? I've got my speakers 4 feet out from the back wall, and 3 feet in from the side walls... that's the best placement I found in my 17 X 21 room. You may need to try much larger moves in speaker location. How long have you had the new setup? Whether the old system or the new system is more accurate is a difficult question to answer, but whichever the case, if they sound different it's going to take some time for your ears to adjust to the new sound. I'd wait at least a couple weeks and see what you think before I started really messing around with stuff. ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStew Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Hey Ray, A question for you from my infinite ignorance. When you measured out for the placement of your speakers, did you measure from the rear and side of the speakers from the wall or the front centerline of your woofers/tweeters from the wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 Ray, Sorry for not being too clear on this. I just got the amp over the weekend and pre came about a week ago. The measurements were taken with the microphone sitting on the back of my "listening" chair and the speakers were moved to different distances from each wall. Each time the speaker was moved one inch I took an SPL reading from that same microphone position. As far as using the Receiver as the preamp, this may very well have merit. The receiver has a problem as it plays music slightly softer out of the left channel. When I got the C-1 I used the Receiver as an amp only and the problem was still there concluding the problem is in the amp section. I've post this problem before on the BB and others thought it was just the volume or balance control not tracking equally on both channels. I'll try your suggestion in a day or two. I htink what drew me to the C-1 was the s/n ratio @ 96db where the Receiver is listed at 80db but yet THD is .03% max on the Rotel and .05% on the Receiver. Go figure. The main reason I got a C-1 was I needed two tape loops, 2 aux., tuner, phono, AND an external processor loop. The Sonic-Holography doesn't do much for me, it does add a nasty hiss when it's engaged. And there doesn't seem to be alot of usable volume knob travel before it gets worrysome-loud, 10 o'clock is all it goes to. After blowing my share of tweeters that is. Maybe the C-1 is going to wind up being temporary till I can find a better pre with all the inputs/outputs needed. And when I can financially recover from buying the amp. Thanks for the help!! ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany Carver C-1 Rotel RB1080 Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Carver TL-3100 CD Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 300 mk II Original 12ga. Monster Cable This message has been edited by tblasing on 05-09-2001 at 01:25 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 ooops..edit goof. This message has been edited by tblasing on 05-09-2001 at 01:15 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 BigStew, There is three feet of space between the outside of the La Scala cabinet and the wall, and four feet of space between the back of the La Scala cabinet and the wall behind it. -------------------------- <--- wall behind speaker / ^ / / four feet / V / -------- / / / /<- 3' ->/ / / / \ / / / / \/ / / -------- / f> Geez I hope that comes out okay... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStew Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Thanks for the reply Ray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 well, that didn't work. Guess spaces get compressed. Let's try this... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 Well, I got home from work this evening after putting a new battery in the Talon (figures, just when $900 went in to the amp ). Turned the bass up and the all the treble is flat. I think it may take a harder push of the system to get THIS amp to clip as the Receiver did to fry the tweeters. Ray, On your C-1, have you noticed that the loudness switch doesn't change the sound hardly at all? Thanks ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany Carver C-1 Rotel RB1080 Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Carver TL-3100 CD Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400 mk II - pre to amp Monster Interlink 300 mk II - all others Original 12ga. Monster Cable This message has been edited by tblasing on 05-10-2001 at 09:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted May 10, 2001 Share Posted May 10, 2001 There's a loudness switch? : Seriously, uh, no, never tried it... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 nice picture ray - I am surprised that the speaks are not wider apart, they look more like locations for cone type speakers in my new 14' x 17' open ended living room, the big old horns are currently about 41" from the front wall and 8 1/4" from the side walls and toed directly to the sweet spot - are yours toed in? and yes tblasing, every little change with sensitive speakers like big old horns will show up, I too found the Carver equipment to be "way harsh" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted May 13, 2001 Author Share Posted May 13, 2001 O.K. so I didn't make a very good decision with the preamp. I did some poking around on the net and another one did spark my interest. A McIntoch C-15 has most of what I needed. At MSRP of $1500 it's gonna take a number of months to save up for this one. Until then I'd like to get some feedback on which ones to pick from. It'll be strictly two-channel only, no HT is possible in this room. I'm open for and encourage suggestions. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany Carver C-1 Rotel RB-1080 Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Carver TL-3100 CD Yamaha K-1020 Cassette (maybe being mothballed) dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300 mk II Original 12ga. Monster Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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