mace Posted May 26, 2001 Share Posted May 26, 2001 Hello, I ordered some KLF 30's and I haven't received them yet. I have some questions about them however. Are they magnetically shielded so they can go close to a CRT TV?? I downloaded the manual to the KLF series and it make them sound like they were made for home theater. I couldn't care less about the sound of movies and such, I use my stereo for CD music 99% of the time (I like hard rock, metal, classical, techno and other genres). I'm getting a little nervous... I was under the impression the KLF's really sounded musically fine, some of the most accurate speakers Klipsch has ever made (for this price range). Do these speakers sound excellent by themselves or do they somehow rely on other speakers (surround, center channel, subwoofer)?? The KLF 30's will go on the ground floor of our house which is berber carpet on a concrete slab base. Should I use the little spikes or just set them on the carpet?? I know the impedence of the 30's is 8 ohms but are they really 8 ohms? I had my amp set to 4 ohms with some Cornwalls many moons ago (see below). What does the impedence setting really do, anyway? Yes, I like to turn it up to about max (11-12 'o' clock or so on the volume dial). Although, with the efficiency of the 30's I may never go above 10 'o' clock since I don't want to become too deaf. What's the deal with the cross-over frequency? I read in another forum that the upper one of 7 kHz is too high and results in loss of clarity/sound volume for things like high hats and such. Any opinions?? Also, the lower crossover frequency of 825 Hz will split the human soprano voice... does this muddy things up?? How good do lower voices/guitars sound going through the large 12" woofers?? The KLF 30's don't have the low frequency response of the KLF 20's (36 vs. 34 Hz). Why is this?? The 30's have bigger woofers. The KLF 30's have the same horns as the 20's. Do the 20's sound any different than the 30's?? I'm starting to wonder if I should've just gotten the 20's and save a couple hundred bucks. The 20's and 30's also have different crossover frequencies, how does this affect sound?? My current set-up... An NAD 3240 power envelope 40 W (200 W peak) integrated amp and Denon DCD 620 with Boston T930's (3 way, 10-inch woofers), I use some sort of moster cable 20 feet long each side. Everything is about 10 years old. I have been overall very pleased with this set-up. While not at all high end it sounds like more than the $1000 I put into it. I had the pleasure of babysitting my brother's Cornwall's (I think 1's) about 10 years ago and haven't forgotten them in the least. He won't sell them (although he doesn't use them much) and so I went ahead and got some 30's. My wife also prefers the 30's smaller footprint over the width of the Cornwalls. Since the KLF's are discontinued I couldn't listen first but I did do some listening to the 20's at a dealer about 4 years ago and have pleasant memories. I realize that ultimately it's my ears which will make me happy or unhappy but what do other people think of the 20's and 30's? How do they compare to each other and to other Klipsch's? To Boston Acoustics?? I must admit, I really didn't shop around for speakers, I knew I wanted for Klipsch, I have for years. I walked into my local store and ordered them (after talking him down quite a bit in price). Now that I've dropped the dough (more than twice what I spent on the Boston's) but they aren't here I'm getting nervous that I won't like them... waiting is a terrible thing! Thanks for any info! Mace This message has been edited by mace on 05-31-2001 at 04:22 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 Mace, Methinks you are suffering from the malady known as "post purchase traumatic stress disorder", which has been known to stike anyone who has just committed themselves to a sizable purchase. Audiophiles are especially at risk to the insidious effects of this disease, as many are already weakened by the ravages of obsessive/compulsive disorder, which tends to make them more susceptable to "PPTSD". You exhibit all the classic syptoms. My advice: Take a chill pill, and let us all know how much you love your KLF-30s when you get them! ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 ... I was under the impression the KLF's really sounded musically fine, some of the most accurate speakers Klipsch has ever made (for this price range). mace, you were absolutely correct about the sound of the 30's.You'll love em.The speakers are not magnetically shielded.And yes,use the spikes.The owners manual should touch on that. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobo Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 never use an impedence switch. Set it to 8ohms. When you set it to 4ohms it limits the power supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 Congratulations on putting your toe in the waters of Klipsch ownership! Now, quit pounding the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" and RELAX mace... and save the shipping containers! At the very worst, if you got a good price, you can sell those harder to find KLF 30's to someone who cares! You have had the benefit of hearing higher rated and lower rated Klipsch speakers... and personally, I would have not bought three pairs of KLF 30's if they did not do the job for home theater... and music. The centers, subwoofers, surrounds, front and rear effects speakers are more for pulling home theater entertainment from DVD's, cable and the like. You can enjoy a lot of music for the money and the footprint with KLF 30's... and it is great "Klipsch breaking" technique for the wife. With care and feeding... and sending her out for a higher paying job... there is no telling what wonderful Klipsch speakers may come into your life! Yes, put the spikes on to reach through the Berber to the bedrock of your floor and rock on. It's a spurious vibration dampening kind of thing. No, the 30's are not shielded but that is usually not a problem when they are properly located to give you the proper stereo image. If they do prove to be a problem, post the problem and there will be lots of BB folks that will be glad to give you specifics. You will quickly lose your concerns over the 2Hz difference in the bottom end when you hear how sweet the rest of the KLF 30's sound in handling your music. If you liked the KLF 20 on music, have no fear, the KLF 30's are definitely a step up. As for the xovers... xover that bridge when you come to it... and post again if it really is a problem. Yes, they are really 8 ohms enough for you to not mess with the switch. Other threads on this BB tell you why. Remember, you bought KLF 30's on a bargain... not 50th Anniversary K-Horns at a collector's premium price. The buyer of one should not expect all the benefits of the other to be included in the deal! All things considered, you could have done far worse in price and performance than bringing KLF 30's into your aural life and wedded bliss. Enjoy! HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Modified Center KLF 30 Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION! This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-29-2001 at 01:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 The spikes should be used to minimize any Newtonian motion of the speakers in reaction to the motion of the woofers. The mass of those cones, in repetitive motion tend to cause the entire speaker to move in an opposing direction. The magnitude of that motion can easily exceed the excursion of the midrange and high frequency diaphragms causing substantial Doppler distortion. Some hear it, some do not. Experiment to find the best compromise between bass extension and imaging, then install the spikes. Press the cabinet down with the weight of your body so the spikes pierce the berber and padding. Adjust the spikes so that the speakers do not rock (the slab beneath the carpet may not be perfectly flat) and you are good to go. Legend series speakers were designed as music reproduction devices as are all Klipsch speakers. In fact, there was never even a rear speaker purpose built for the Legend series. If it's good for music - really good, then it will be good for high resolution multi-channel use. Impedance of any speaker will vary with frequency. As you know, if the source impedance of your amplifier is above a couple tenths of an ohm, the load impedance will cause frequency response changes. The autoformer used in the network of the Legend series presents an impedance peak and the ported tuning of the cabinet presents an impedance dip. An amp such as your NAD will have no trouble driving the KLF-30's to high volume. Some severely current-limited amps offer a switch to match the voltage/current output of the amp to the load being driven and this is most certainly a compromise. In the case of your NAD, I would try it both ways and listen closely for best bass and best dynamics. If it sounds better set to 4 Ohms, use it that way. If 8 is better, go with that. The Legend series are NOT shielded for near TV placement. Most TV's are not bothered if you get the speakers more than 8-10" away. Experiment is the sure test. Remember the inverse square law, magnetic disturbance will decrease as the square of the distance between speaker and TV. Crossovers - till a one-way design proves feasable, we will always be workign with some sort of crossover, be it electrical or mechanical. Remember, every driver has its own pass band characteristics and the electrical components work in combination with the mechanical characteristics to create the final filter design. We choose final network design via a careful listening process. Ultimately, listening is an emotional and sensory process. Remember to listen with your heart and evaluate with your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 27, 2001 Share Posted May 27, 2001 WOW! Sounds like BobG had his Wheaties for breakfast this morning. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 28, 2001 Share Posted May 28, 2001 use the spikes, chill, let 'em 'break in' and what? huh? did you say something? avman.-recent new owner of klf-30's w/ about 110wpc of a** kicking ES sony receiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 i know it's moot when matched w/ a good sub, but for mace & the tech inquiring minds, & even though it's not much difference, but why don't the 30s go lower then the 20s & the 20s not as low as the 10s? this is one bass anomoly i've yet to see really answered. i figure it's in the design/port tuning, but if that, then why so? ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Boa, I should probably wait to let one of the more engineering-types respond, but here goes. Like most things in life, designing speakers is a study in compromises. Achieving lower Hz numbers often comes at the expense of other, more preferable, speaker characteristics. As you know, I have KLF 10's & 30's, but even without subwoofer help, I much prefer the dynamic range and sensitivity of the 30's to that of the 10's... and the relatively small difference in the low range is virtually indistinguishable in everyday listening. I think some clues toward answering your question are buried in some of the threads that discuss why the "7" series are designed to be better than our discontinued "Legends"... enlightened compromises that bring full and accurate response over broader sonic ranges. Wow, I am beginning to feel that point where I gladly defer to the "G&H's" (Bob & Jim + Phil) and all the "non-paid but Klipsch-biased" critical thinkers out there. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 Hello, Thanks for all the replies! I am still curious why the 30's have a tad less bass response than the others in the Legend series (36 Hz vs. 34 Hz (not dB as I mistakenly typed)). I doubt I could hear the difference. As far as amplifier impedence settings.. my amp has a peak output of 160 W with 8 ohm setting and 200 W with 4 ohm setting. Thus I assumed lower impedence setting meant a little more ooomph (we're talking peak power, not contiuous here). When I had the cornwalls the guy in the store said that if they were being driven by hard rock music the actual impedence was closer to 4 ohms and not the rated 8 ohms. I'll just try both with "normal" listening levels and see if I can even tell a difference. The NAD 3240PE can deliver up to 25 amperes of current. I assume this doesn't fall under the "current-limited" amplifier category?? Question: how do you guys deal with having 3 sets of these things in the same room?? How can you *not* be deaf???? Anxiously awaiting KLF day, Mace f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Ah, Mace, it is the quality of three sets of the same speakers in the same 6.1 environment that is important... not the volume! The efficiency of the KLF 30's is so high that you should find no difficulty driving them with what you have with great musicality for the price you paid. Having KLF 30's in every position gives one the potential to have every like sound sound the same from every position... although the sound mixing in the first 20 mins. of "Saving Private Ryan" tends to test that premise. Building speakers depends heavily on the art of compromise... and that translates into the best speakers for your ears may not have what most people presume are the best numbers. While you will not likely hear the difference 2Hz make, you will surely hear the essential character of your new KLF 30's. It's the difference between the spice and the club! Happy KLF Day! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted May 30, 2001 Share Posted May 30, 2001 Hello Mace, I'm sure you'll find the KLF-30s to be great speakers. What you may find is that they are greater than you expected .. in the end this is very good. Mostly, I'm refering to your amplifier. I used an NAD 3130 for years and always found the sound from my Forte-IIs to be harsh, with poor imaging. About three years ago I discovered that the primary problem was my amplifier (I discovered this by trying a Nelson Pass 30 watt class A amplifier). Besides what was most likely a very bad case of crossover distortion, my NAD amp used a not so good operational amplifier in the preamp circuit. If you find that you are happy with the KLF-30s and your NAD, then that's it. But if you are disappointed, and the sound seems thin, or harsh, try a good amp, one that performs well at low power (less than 1 watt). Check out some of the amplifier discussions elsewhere in this site The rewarding thing for me about Klipsch speakers is that they are so perfect. The better wou treat them, the better they sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted May 31, 2001 Author Share Posted May 31, 2001 Hello, Yes, I'm aware there are smoother, warmer amps out there but I've really been pleased with the sound of the NAD, especially how clean it is and distortion free. When I was amp shopping there was a Yamaha amp which sounded a little smoother, not as harsh, with classical music but it cost 3x as much as the NAD (which I got new for $250). Plus, with the pre-amp out option I can upgrade to a good power amp someday and use the 3240 for a pre-amp. The 3240PE is rated <0.03% total harmonic distortion (THD) not just at full 40 W output but from 250 mW to 40W. In addition, the 'low level' button takes out 20 dB and is useful for taking out amplifier distortion/noise at low listening levels. I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be using this low level button a lot of the time with the Klipschies (as my wife calls them) since even 125 mW will give 93 dB at 1 m. It drove the Corwall's beautifully and I really can't wait to get my hands on the 30's. The speakers should be here today! Mace s>f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 Hello Mace, <0.03% total harmonic distortion at 250mW sure sounds fine to me, I don't think my 3130 was anything like that. Let us know how you like the LF30s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted June 2, 2001 Author Share Posted June 2, 2001 Well, the speakers didn't get here so now I've got to wait until Tuesday when they get the next shipment in. I've already moved the old ones in anticipation. I really can hardly wait to get the goosebumps back (from the cornwall days). Mace f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Ah, Mace, the rock on nights are getting closer! I, too, have been delayed my latest Klipsch shipment after making way for its scheduled delivery. Patience is a virtue... so sayeth FedEx Ground (to a halt)... somehow they drove them from Arkansas to Memphis to get to San Francisco at 3:10 a.m. Friday and still couldn't get the last couple of miles to my house We all look forward to your objective report on the Klipsch Maceday Parade of friends and neighbors who come by after hearing your BIG NEW SOUND... without leaving their homes! Rock on. HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 still no answer on that klf freq response. i'll have to assume & like ed said that they tune the 30 that way for higher efficiency. or does the crossover point(s) come into play also? i don't know why & it's killing me ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable Marantz SR-8000 receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Monster MCX Biwires Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics direct drive turntable Sega Genesis game player Sub: None yet rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGeist Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 boa12, Generally speaking, increasing efficiency by increasing the driver area requires the box volume to increase proportionally. The surface area of a 15" woofer is 50% larger than a 12 and therefore would ideally require an enclosure 50% larger than a KLF 20. An enclosure this large would probably not be accepted by "most" consumers and therefore some compromises had to be made. As a result, the KLF 30 is only about 25% larger than the 20. This circumstance is not unusual in the Klipsch line. The Forte' went lower than a Chorus for essentially the same reason. BTW, the Cornwall could be considered an example of an enclosure where this compromise was not made. Kerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Kerry, the logic shines but the details seem dim. Below are calculations from the specifications section of this board. Admittedly, chasing the difference between three speakers over a span of 4Hz is trivial... but the principles you raise are more far reaching. Could you fill us in on the bass relationships, from your learned perspective, between: KLF 10 32Hz with two 1056-K 10" woofers in 7,440 cu in KLF 20 34Hz with two 1036-K 10" woofers in 7,824 cu in KLF 30 36Hz with two K-31-K 12" woofers in 10,136 cu in My confusion is the use of a 15" woofer with Legend examples that have only 10" and 12" woofers. However, if I follow your logic, a KLF 30 cabinet would need to be about 11,273 cu in to equal the bass of a KLF 20. But, then, it seems inconsistent that the smaller KLF 10 cabinet goes 2Hz lower than the larger KLF 20 cabinet with the same 10" diameter woofers. As you must know, we DO love our KLF Legends... now we would also like to understand them. HornEd ------------------ "30 Something 6.1 Herd" KLF 30 Mains KLF 30 Mod Center KLF 30 Mod Surrounds KLF 30 Rear Effects SB-2 Front Effects Subs: KSW-15 + 3 KSW-12's Speaker Support Systems: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65" Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver and more... ... UNDER CONSTRUCTION! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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