Just Starting Out... Tight Budget

[ccsakura]

Another point wanted to make here.......... IMO just start with seperate amp and preamp(or u don't even need preamp this moment, if it's single source). And get a pair of RF-35(or RF-3II as you said as tight budget). Then go ahead for sub afterwards.

[itzo]

Wow, what a great point! I do only need a power amp!

I must admit I'm outside my area of knowledge now. Could you tell me what I should look for in a power amp? What are some of the better brands i should look into? Would it be realistic to pay around US$400-500 for a decent power amp? Could you recommend some models in this range, please?

Oh btw, I'd be looking at a 5 channel amp (no sub - i'll power it seperately).

[ccsakura]

At this price you can hardly find a great 5 channel amp.....(well I tried the same, then ended up with my reciever

Get into ebay and look is there any luck for that.

I just fonud some good deals for that:

Harmon Kardon PA4000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3066159451&category=14973

They also have Marantz MM9000 @ 700which i think is great deal but it's out of your budget, anyway here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3064630420&category=14973

Good hunting

[glennbarn]

CCsakura, just womdering how you hooked up your PM5.1 to your receiver. Did you use the per-amp or did you hook them directly to the speaker terminals ? Whats the Ohm rating of the PM5.1 satellites ?

Thanks !

[ccsakura]

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On 12/20/2003 6:04:29 AM glennbarn wrote:

CCsakura, just womdering how you hooked up your PM5.1 to your receiver. Did you use the per-amp or did you hook them directly to the speaker terminals ? Whats the Ohm rating of the PM5.1 satellites ?

Thanks !

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I jsut turn all of them into output of the reciever(not the preout). I thought there's a difference but actually I turn my reciever's into 8ohm instead of 4-6 ohms(because I've more 8ohms speakers). It might shorten those PM 5.1's speakers' life expectency but a speaker can last for several years....... and I got the center speaker at $20 . Gonna change them into 35 series....... who cares(gonna take a year or two to complete the setup tho )

[itzo]

I've decided that assuming i can get a good deal on them here in oz, i'm going to get a pair of RF-5s. At the moment my priority is to hook them up to my PC, mainly for music, however ultimately i'd like to expand to 5.1 for a HT system.

Firstly, my PC soundcard is a Terratec DMX 6fire 24/96, which has all manner of outputs:

-- 3x 1/8" Stereo Minijacks (front, rear, LFE + centre)

-- 1/4" Stereo Minijack (headphones)

-- Stereo Line Out (2x RCA)

-- Midi Out

-- Digital Optical Out

-- Digital Coaxial Out

It's a rather expensive card, and i believe the DACs are quite good for a PC soundcard.

From what i've heard here, i'll be better served with seperates, than an a/v receiver, however the cost of seperates far exceeds my means for now. But seeing as how I have only a single source (my PC) and i don't need to decode a 5.1 digital signal, do i actually need an pre/pro or can i make do with just a power amplifier until my budget permits me to purchase a pre/pro? This way i save on costs now, and when i do actually purchase a pre/pro, the technology will be current.

So assuming I can i directly connect the output from my soundcard to a power amplifier, will i be able to control the volume from my computer as usual? Will the maximum volume be on par with what i would get with a pre/pro? What disadvantages does this situation incur upon me?

The purpose for me listing the outputs on the soundcard above was to find up how i should connect to the power amp/s. I assume the 2xRCA sockets on the line out would be the best? Do power amps usually have an RCA socket, like receivers do, for input into each channel?

To keep costs down and hopefully quality up, I'd like to just go for 2 mono amps, or a stereo amp to start with. I suppose i should be aiming around 100W per channel, available in 240V and within a decent price range (say US$500 or under). I liked the look of the Outlaw Model 200 M-Block Amplifier, two of which would only set me back $550 or so, however they don't manufacture a 240V version, so it's useless to me here in Australia.

Oh and also, does the brand of power amplifier colour the sound produced, as different receivers do, or is it the processing part (as i imagine) that colours the sound so? Basically I want to know what the implications will be if in the long run, i end up using different brands of power amps to power my HT?

[skonopa]

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On 1/6/2004 8:40:12 AM itzo wrote:

From what i've heard here, i'll be better served with seperates, than an a/v receiver, however the cost of seperates far exceeds my means for now. But seeing as how I have only a single source (my PC) and i don't need to decode a 5.1 digital signal, do i actually need an pre/pro or can i make do with just a power amplifier until my budget permits me to purchase a pre/pro? This way i save on costs now, and when i do actually purchase a pre/pro, the technology will be current.

So assuming I can i directly connect the output from my soundcard to a power amplifier, will i be able to control the volume from my computer as usual? Will the maximum volume be on par with what i would get with a pre/pro? What disadvantages does this situation incur upon me?

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If you plan on doing everything through the computer (i.e., watching DVDs, listening to music, etc), then the computer itself along with that (and I'll admit, a very nice BTW) soundcard will act as the pre/pro (which are, in essence, just specialized computers). The soundcard has all the typical outputs you would find a pre/pro (at least the lower to mid-range ones). Provided the player software you use correctly decodes the surround info from the material you are playing and passes the data to the DACs on the soundcard, you should be golden.

As for the volume, it should be fine, especially if you get a decent quality amplifier.

Also to add, it is true that you most likely would get a better quality sound out of a dedicated pre/pro, but for now, your computer should work fine, especially if you are doing this on a budget, as you indicated at the beginning of this thread. It sounds like you got a soundcard that should be up to par and probably better than the pre/pro sections of most typical recievers in the $500 US range out there.

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The purpose for me listing the outputs on the soundcard above was to find up how i should connect to the power amp/s. I assume the 2xRCA sockets on the line out would be the best? Do power amps usually have an RCA socket, like receivers do, for input into each channel?

To keep costs down and hopefully quality up, I'd like to just go for 2 mono amps, or a stereo amp to start with. I suppose i should be aiming around 100W per channel, available in 240V and within a decent price range (say US$500 or under). I liked the look of the Outlaw Model 200 M-Block Amplifier, two of which would only set me back $550 or so, however they don't manufacture a 240V version, so it's useless to me here in Australia.

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This picture is the back of my B&K Reference 200.7 amplifier

As you can see, each of the seven channels has an RCA type connector (which is the connection I am using) along with a balanced XLR style connector. However, this particular amp is not exactly cheap, at about $3,600 US for full retail pricing (I got for a bit less than that due to a pretty decent deal I got at a local dealer). FYI, it is a 200 watts/channel, 7-channel amp.

Just about every modern amp out there has at least the RCA connectors, at least the ones that are meant for home/consumer use. However, that may not necessarily be true with an amp meant for the professional/commercial market, though (although most likely, these will have RCA connectors also).

To go from the stereo mini 1/8 jack on the back of your soundcard to the RCA jack on the amp (for example the left/right front), you would need a stereo 1/8 mini to RCA cable like this, although I would recommend getting something a bit better quality than that one.

To hook up the front left right, you would plug the 1/8" end into the socket labeled "fronts" and the red RCA plug to the amp for the right channel, and the white (or black, depending on what kind of cable you end up with) RCA plug to the amp for left channel.

Yes, you could also you the line-out jacks for the two channel stereo.

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Oh and also, does the brand of power amplifier colour the sound produced, as different receivers do, or is it the processing part (as i imagine) that colours the sound so? Basically I want to know what the implications will be if in the long run, i end up using different brands of power amps to power my HT?

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It is often recommended to try to stay with the same brand of amps all the way around, like with the speakers, but you could get away with it better than if you had different brand of speakers. If you find you do end up with different brands, put the amp(s) that sounds better to you on the mains and center with the other amp(s) driving the rears. At least in my case, seven channels worth of amp will be plenty for a long time.

[ccsakura]

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On 1/6/2004 8:40:12 AM itzo wrote:

The purpose for me listing the outputs on the soundcard above was to find up how i should connect to the power amp/s. I assume the 2xRCA sockets on the line out would be the best? Do power amps usually have an RCA socket, like receivers do, for input into each channel?

To keep costs down and hopefully quality up, I'd like to just go for 2 mono amps, or a stereo amp to start with. I suppose i should be aiming around 100W per channel, available in 240V and within a decent price range (say US$500 or under). I liked the look of the Outlaw Model 200 M-Block Amplifier, two of which would only set me back $550 or so, however they don't manufacture a 240V version, so it's useless to me here in Australia.

Oh and also, does the brand of power amplifier colour the sound produced, as different receivers do, or is it the processing part (as i imagine) that colours the sound so? Basically I want to know what the implications will be if in the long run, i end up using different brands of power amps to power my HT?

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Not bad of the way to start with. But the sound will be little limited by the sound card as you'll figure out. Terretic DMX got little lowered once M-audio Revo was released. I'm not sure about their difference(I don't own DMX) but they share the same processing chip, and varies on DAC(I heard Revolution uses expensive DAC that's on high end pre/pro grade, some people discussed abuot it in some forum when the card just released.)

There's 2 template that'd work for your case:

1. Get a amplifier like parasound Z-amp for stereo channel and push the stereo speakers. And add another 5.1 amp for making the system to be 7.1 surround system(well if u don't need that just get another 3channel amp for 5.1). Or get the preamp before you can add the amp to improve the quality of input first.

2. Use the card's digital out and forget any process(keeping the loss minimum, pre/pro usually do better sound processing than sound card's DAC) in the computer. Get a reciever to be a pre/pro and amplification. Add new amplifiers and the reciever will eventually become pre/pro or get rid of it for a preamp.

However there's some disadvantage for both system, first one would definitely the sound card limited the quality by the DAC, until you get the preamp. Second system won't have as good as quality with the first template with seperates. And it would be having problem with the reciever just become a pre/pro or even blown out of the system. But that's the people usually doing with their systems. Nice reciever like Denon 3802 and B&K ref 7.1 then the 3802 will become a pre/pro or left behind.

Btw I'm using the second method, hope it helps

[KiNNi C P]

alright, dont bash me for this, but why go klipsch. I mean klipsch is great, but there are other products that can match its quality or even better for less. If i were you , i would personally try to go see if i can still find NHT SuperOnes and get 5 of them. OneCALL still has them. They may not be floor towers, but the high and mid is one of the best you can get for the money. THen couple it with a decent SVS or HSU sub. NHT also makes decent subs, but they are pricey.

For receivers, i dont know if Outlaw still makes their reciever, but if not, try marantz sub:$4-500 dollar receivers.

From ya soundcard to a standalone amp, i dont see how it would work out. The signal given out by the soundcard may not be strong enough. Think of it this way, its like connecting a DVD players RCA audio out to a stand alone amp. I mean, you probably will here some sound from the CD player, but the volume can only get so high. A pre/pro amplifies this signal.

if you think about it, when you connect ya soundcard to ya PC speakers, you dont use the soundcard to adjust the main volume, it can only go so high, instead you use the speakers preamp.

if you want a decent stereo system. Try to see if you can order Axiom speakers. I heard they were great for the price. I am going to order them sometime soon. For the amp, i would suggest a integrated amplifier made by NAD. For the CD playback, just buy a Pioneer all in one player that plays both SACD and DVD-A. The D/A on it should be somewhat decent and should be on par, if not better then your Terra. One thing for sure, it sures kicks the sh#t out of my Audigy 2 EX. This should range you around 1000. For the sub, i put that last. THe axiom speaker seems to output pretty decent bass. If you got the money, i will still prefer to get the sub i mention above.

hope this helps

[itzo]

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if you think about it, when you connect ya soundcard to ya PC speakers, you dont use the soundcard to adjust the main volume, it can only go so high, instead you use the speakers preamp.

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Yes, but if you set the PC speakers amp to maximum, then adjust the volume from the computer, you can get the full range of volume, right upto the loudest. I assume this is how it is with a power amp: if it has no power control, then it's going to be permanently set to maximum. However i wasn't aware the pre/pro actually amplified the signal, i thought it simply processed it, which may make an impact on my sound.

On the subject of the right speakers for me, I naturally intend to preview the Klipsch and compare them before I buy, however i think i'll be happy with them. Was your comment to merely suggest better value speakers simply because I'm grappling with a budget or because you believe them to be superior? I could go for more lesser quality speakers, but I've made a decision to go with 2 excellent floorstanding speakers instead.

Finally, i would seriously consider going with a receiver instead of the seperates if not for the fact i'm not going to upgrade my system to HT for some time yet, and i'd prefer more up to date hardware by that time.

[KiNNi C P]

hmmmm, i dont believe that the amplifiers are set to its maximum level. I need to double check on this also myself.

btw, i am recommending other speakers becuase some speakers cost less then klipsch, and should sound better if not on par with klipsch, not that klipsch sucks or anything.

lets just say i have the money for the RF-7. For me,i won't be buying them, i would either spend the money on Totems, PMC, Dynaudios, or Monitor Audio. Its all a matter of preference and taste. Then again, some people are going to complain that the speakers dont got dual 10s or aint gonna go loud enough.

how much are the floorstanding klipsch you are getting???

actually, if ya gonna spend around 800+, i would try to see if i can find NHT VT2.4 floorstanding speakers. IMHO, i think they sound alot better then the RF-7.