bensilb Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 I just biwired my RF-3s with Monster M1.4s cable. It cost $300 but WOW what a difference!!!!!! Do it...it is worth the money!! ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 RC-3 Synergy Rear surounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 I agree. Better imaging, darker background, deeper soundstage, maybe a little faster paced.... ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Spot Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Did you guys smoke anything before listening? ------------------ Get your butt out of my chair!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Perhaps... But if we did, we smoked the same stuff while A/B-ing the two cable configurations, while sitting in the same spot, wearing the same clothes, and with shakti stones in our pockets. The tricky part is remembering which cable was which and avoiding the dreaded Pink-Floyd-catatonia.... Mmmmmmm.... kind cable.... ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 uh, Prana-Bindu... watch that thing about putting the Shakti's in your pockets... the way they capture and cancel virtually all forms of bad energy, whether magnetic or electrical (see the website http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/shakt.html for an excellent overview of how they are able to address almost every form of bad energy with this totally passive device, presented in clear and concise detail) I'd be a bit worried that some of my manly virility was being damped and cancelled... Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Holy #%$&!! ... and I thought I was just getting old.... Thanks, Ray! I'll dump the prescription to my little blue friend and immediately put the shakti stones where they belong. $230 dollars for those things?! Geeeeeezzzz!!! Be honest, Ray: have you tried the stones? Did they make a difference? I'm totally curious now (having read their "white paper"), but not $230-curious. Be honest.... ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 No, I've never tried them, so I can't comment on them. But I will anyway. I suppose it's POSSIBLE that they MIGHT actually do SOMETHING. The "white paper" on their site (more like extended ad copy) has some bits and pieces that come close to making sense. My problem with this type of product, and others of similar presentation, is that the company wraps so much mumbo-jumbo and stuff that sounds scientific, but doesn't really mean anything, around the product descriptions that it's very, very hard to take them seriously. For example, we start with this: "...Many engineers have experienced the phenomenon whereby two identical circuits that differ only slightly in layout, can result in one sounding (though not necessarily measuring) far more musical. EMI appears to be the culprit here. One obvious but impractical solution would be an enormous five foot wide chassis to increase distances between internal devices. Other attempts to address EMI have included extensive shielding in and around the circuits and transformers and totally passive external boxes that produced some benefits..." Well, okay, I have no problem with that part. We continue "...SHAKTI differs from these past efforts in that it draws energy from the very field it is attempting to smooth out; once it is set in motion it becomes an active transducer by changing a portion of this field into mechanical energy and then dissipates it as heat. To accomplish this, SHAKTI utilizes proprietary ferrous and nonferrous material and quartz crystal oscillators in combination with a low level magnetic field. These components are oriented within geometric shapes both internal and external, and then housed in a poured stone material..." Huh? How about a DIAGRAM? How about some MEASUREMENTS? How about some specific electromagnetic EQUATIONS describing what it does? Okay, maybe you're worried about patents, and people ripping you off. Hire a (well respected) consultant who knows electrical theory, have him sign an NDA, show him how the damn thing works, and AT LEAST get someone who knows what their talking about to say "Yeah, I looked at the math behing this, and the construction, and I understand how it works. Pretty cool idea, should damp RFI above nnn kHz by xx dB if placed within yy MM of the emitter..." All we get now is gobbletygook (?spell?) and sentences apparently spewed out of a random technology phrasiology generator. Even if they DO work, I'd be really, really hard pressed to be open minded enough to find out. I think I'm way to predisposed to feeling like I'm being ripped off after reading the copy. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Not just ripped off, Ray, but, as Mr. Twain would likely tell you, powerful ripped off; especially after being convinced out of $230!! I am not as forgiving as you, though. The first part of the quote with which you provided us makes a dubious move: "EMI appears to be the culprit here." Where's the part about WHY EMI is to blame? If I was EMI, I'd be screaming about a little something called Due Process.... Has anyone out there smashed a shakti stone into its secret little pieces? O.K., who'll sacrifice $230 (plus shipping) to backwards-engineer these things? Don't be shy.... While we're on the subject of tweakings, I'll admit to being predesposed to falling for every freaky audio tweak suggested by anyone. I know, it's a sickness -- a disease beyond measure.... As such, I am currently exercising that naiveté by building a TNT FleXy Table®. See http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/flexye.html It's a neat idea, and I have this theory that the location of my television and a large flat section of the table upon which the tele sits are causing somewhat of an emphasis of the right channel. No, I'm not going to go through the trouble of swapping speakers. Yes, I will go through the trouble of building a FleXy Table®. It's not about reason, it's about Snake Oil, brothers and sisters. ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 I've a question...With just a solid state amp and CD player does one need to be worried about vibrations?? If so, why?? Thanks, Mace This message has been edited by mace on 07-23-2001 at 09:11 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 quote: Originally posted by mace: I've a question...With just a sold state amp and CD player does one need to be worried about vibrations?? If so, why?? Thanks, Mace I believe there are some who are concerned that the vibration from your sound system may damage the crystals (more power, Scotty!!) in the CD player (like in the clock) and that vibrations can weaken the myriad little connections found on a computer chip and board. I've heard of some putting small bags of silica (sand, basically) on the clocks and DACs in their CD players. Prana - I've built the Flexytable, but I used 4 posts rather than 3 and I used 3/4" threaded rod. I like it a lot, for homemade. Not sure I saved much over buying one, after all the tweaks and stuff, but it was a fun project and it certainly is one of a kind. Ross Taylor was instrumental in pulling it off. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 Doug: I share your skepticism in the actual savings involved in making the FleXy®. $10 per rod, $15 to have them cut and machined to a point, $30 for the MDF, $30 for rubber washers that fit (!!), and I don't remember how much for paint and nuts/steel washers. This project is taking me a long time. The woodwork took several hours, I'm on my third coat of primer, and I'll probably slap 5 coats of paint by the time it's ready to assemble. Not only that, but I also have to find a way to protect the wooden floors; granite is not cheap.... I also built an audio isolation sandbox some time ago for the CD player, Mace. However, it was mainly to solve a horrible problem with my wooden floors: the CD would skip if I tiptoed 10 feet away. After the sandbox, I can do jumping-jacks right next to the machine and it doesn't miss a beat. The actual sonic benefits of the box, however, were not as drastic. I did notice a slightly tighter sound. Transients were less muddied/smeared, but this very slight improvement may have been due to other tweaks applied at the time. You can check out the design here: http://www.mindspring.com/~prcarter/sandbox.html By the way, dado cuts with a power hand saw are not fun.... And be sure to carefully calibrate whatever tool you use to make the bevel cuts, so you won't have to screw the sides into place like I did. I know that people indeed do use vibration treatment for amps, as well as just about any component in the system. It appears that cones are very popular to isolate amps (SS or tubes), but I don't quite understand the difference between isolation provided by a cushion and that provided by a solid form like cones or graphite blocks, etc. Perhaps someone out there has some experience/knowledge with different kinds of vibration reduction? I think the most important form of vibration control has to be built into an amp; whereas a CD-player has more squirming room. I am under the impression that a particular component in an amp is especially prone to vibrations (power supply?), but the only solution to this is to make it as stiff as possible, instead of absorbing its vibrations. Not sure, still learning.... If you don't want to go through the trouble of building or buying an air/sand isolation unit, try this: place a flat sandbag underneath the cd player and one on top; the sand should take the vibrations in the chassis and magically (friction) turn them into small amounts of heat! If you notice an improvement, let us know. ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Prana-Bindu: Doug: I share your skepticism in the actual savings involved in making the FleXy®. In fairness to Mr. Flexy, I should point out that the reason I made the stand was not so much economic as it was practical. I wanted more shelves than I could find in commercial units. The Flexy let me put as many shelves on it as I desired. I have 8 now, with one empty (perhaps a nice Acurus 3x200 would fill the spot nicely?). DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 Thanks for the info! Way back in the day when I had some Cornwalls I actually set my amp and CD player directly on them with only a folded towel between amp and speaker top... I never had any trouble with skipping and the like. I used that set-up for a year. It was in a dorm and once the Cornwalls shoke down a picture in the nextdoor neighbors room (all brick building). Pretty cool... but I digress... I still have the same CD player and amp 11 years later with no problems. I may cut up a mouse pad and put that below the feet or each as was suggested on this board (in another thread). My impression was that getting vibration out of the components would somehow help the sonics. This had me perplexed since it's all solid state...now a turntabIe I could understand. I'm still going to try biwiring my Legend 30's. Someday... Later, Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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