MarvinG Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 There is a lot of debate about the merits (or not) of bi-wiring. As KLIPSCH speakers (RF-35's for example) are bi-wirable, clearly they feel there is something to it. 1) Does KLIPSCH have a RECOMMENDATION or POSITION on bi-wiring? Do they say under what conditions customer may want to consider it? Eg Only bi-wire if you intend to bi-amp? 2) Does KLIPSCH have an ASSESSMENT on the audible effects of bi-wiring their speakers? Does bi-wiring make then sound more/less bright, more/less full?, etc ,etc Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 I think that the speakers are bi-wireable for marketing purposes. The best "Klipsch" position is that of the founder, Paul W. Klipsch. PWK believed in the use of plain zip cord for wire. My own view is to use large diameter zip cord such as 12 awg. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 The effects of bi-wiring are very debateable and the differences between the two if any are very small. However, the bi-wire capability allows for bi-amping which has very distinct sonic advantages. It is for bi-amping that I believe Klipsch has designed the speakers with this feature. I've found that a speaker that is bi-amped correctly tends to sound more open and less strained (especially when cranking the volume). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Check out the frequently asked quesions on the website, and that might answer some of your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 I read in the very brief manual I got with my Reference speakers that Klipsch recommends biwiring. As I remember they claim it provides a deeper soundstage. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Funny, I remember someone posting an article about biwiring that had PWK flatly stating that no one could tell a difference between the two in tests he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 In the Reference manuals it mentions that bi-wiring can be advantageous if single runs of larger wire are undesirable. In other words, if you don't want to run 10ga wire for whatever reason, two 16ga runs can be used. Electronically, the only advantage it can have is reduced resistance, unless bi-amping is used. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 ---------------- On 3/7/2004 7:12:20 PM Griffinator wrote: Funny, I remember someone posting an article about biwiring that had PWK flatly stating that no one could tell a difference between the two in tests he did. ---------------- Guess PWK didn't write the manual I got chief. It clearly states that Klipsch recommends bi-wiring for "improved bass response, imaging and detail". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Of course ol' PWK didn't write the manual that you have, he didn't have much to do with the company then, as it was being run by Fred Klipsch at the time, and quite a few years before that. The marketing department wrote the manual, not an engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 PWK did not believe in bi-wiring. Zip cord was good enough for PWK even at 16 ga. Bi-amping with an active crossover is a different matter. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 ---------------- On 3/9/2004 1:05:43 AM michael hurd wrote: Of course ol' PWK didn't write the manual that you have, he didn't have much to do with the company then, as it was being run by Fred Klipsch at the time, and quite a few years before that. The marketing department wrote the manual, not an engineer. ---------------- Yup. That was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 ---------------- On 3/9/2004 1:18:22 AM MrMcGoo wrote: PWK did not believe in bi-wiring. Zip cord was good enough for PWK even at 16 ga. Bi-amping with an active crossover is a different matter. Bill ---------------- That's what I thought. I still don't agree re: Zip Cord, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarvinG Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 It seems that the current 'marketing' arm of KLIPSCH is pushing it. Here was their reply to my question to them of whether or not they foramlly recommended it, even for those users who do not bi-amp: == Thank you for your email and for your purchase of Klipsch speakers for your home theater system. You are correct as there seems to be some debate and confusion about bi-wiring. I can refer you to a book written by Robert Harley entitled "The Complete Guide to High-End Audio" (http://www.hifibooks.com/). In chapter 11 Mr. Harley has a very good explanation about bi-wired loudspeaker cables. Klipsch has gone to greater expense to design and manufacture our Reference Series speakers with bi-wire and bi-amp capability along with being internal wired with Bandwidth Balanced Monster Cable and therefore, I would agree with Robert Harley and suggest that you take advantage of this and bi-wire your speakers, even if it means buying two runs of less expensive cables. Other benefits of bi-wiring would be in allowing your electronics to operate more efficiently as the amplifier "sees" a higher impedance on the tweeter cable at low frequencies, and allow impedance at high frequencies. The opposite is true n the woofer half of the bi-wired pair. Hope this helps...enjoy! Steve W. Bailey Klipsch Home Audio Tech Support Klipsch Audio Technologies 1-800-554-7724 option 2 Klipsch...A LEGEND IN SOUND == So, I guess thre is no harm done by bi-wiring ( ie speakers are desgned for it, no warranty issues, manufacturer reccommends it) , but the jury is out as to whether it makes a differnce. Per earlier posts, the founder of the company, PWK, didn't think much of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarvinG Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Suppose I have: - a single AVR ( eg HK AVR 525) ( ie no bi-amping) - a roll of 4 conductor 14 gauge cable (eg ULTRALINK CL414 - not yet purchased -a set of bi-wireble towers a bi-wirable centre and - a set of non-biwirable surrounds. Suppose as well, given I have the wire, I choose to implement bi-wiring, on the premise of no-harm-done and that its recommended in the KLIPSCH manual. Can I safely assume that it's a perfectly acceptable/normal arrangment to bi-wire some but not all the speakers and drive them all from the same AVR and all with the same type of cable. Ie wiring as shown as http://members.rogers.com/msgtech3/ht/images/bi.pdf Where wires are doubled up, does it matter which two, ie do you pick two adjacent conductors or two alternate conductors. As black is adjacent to white, I'd assume alternate conductors should be bundled. Thanks Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Interestingly, the owners' manual I have seems to discourage biamping. "We do not recommend biamplifying any of our speakers, since in general it will produce no benefit that could not be obtained simply by using a single larger amplifier and may cause severe sound degradation if not done properly." That's from page 3 in the owner's manual that came with my RB35s. Klipsh then explains how to biamp correctly and suggests using the same model amp for the tweeter and woofer to prevent frequency response errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarvinG Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 I wrote back to Klipsh support and asked they explain the contradictory position on biamping (re thier email response and the manual- its in the RF35 manual was well). No reply yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yromj Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Steely, That is what my manual says as well. What Marvin is asking about is bi-wiring, which is a little different. Bi-wiring means he'll simply run two sets of wires from the same post on the receiver to the speaker. Marvin, You're correct. Bi-wiring won't hurt anything. Also, it won't really matter if you bi-wire some of the speakers, but not all. However, the ones with the longest speaker wire runs (usually the surrounds) would be benefit the most from bi-wiring. I also don't see any real reason to be concerned about which wires to pair together. Just be consistant so that you can ensure proper polarity of all four wires. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarvinG Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 yromj - ironically, the longest run, the surrounds (RS-35) and not biwireable. So between that, and an review advising against it for the 4 wire cable I am using, and this/other forums which have debated this at nauseum without consensus, and the inconsistneices even within the manaufacturer, I am concluding that while there may be a theoretical difference, there is not a compelliing practical/sonic difference in almost all cases. I now tend to be in the camp that says interesting notion, but concentrate on the hundreds of other variables that in fact do make a difference. So it's bi-bi to bi for me. Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Marvin, I too was a skeptic when I first got my Ref 3s about three years ago. I did a lot of investigation and came up with a lot conflicting information. I figured, "what the heck" for 20 some odd bucks it's worth a shot so I went for it. While I won't claim any miracles happened, there was a small but perceptable difference in the "tightness" of the extreme lows, I'd say anything below about 250 Hz seemed a tad bit clearer. When I got my Ref 7s I just continued to bi-wire, never even tried the single wire, so I can't give you a personal perspective on them. Jerry Rappaport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 You're right. I should have explained myself better. The owner's manual has some very positive things to say about bi-wiring. I was surprised, though, by their stated position on bi-amping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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