Colin Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Jdyer, with your 40 McIntosh watts into the Khorn bass bins matches your 8-watt SETs on mid and upper horn, I am curious what SPL that is? Do you get those 40-watt reading with a 10KHz signal? 1KHz signal? 100hz? How do you know the output of the woofer amplifier is balanced with output of the upper amplifier? I have a DOD crossover and cables, but I am NOT ready to unsolder my AK2 crossover from the squawker and tweeter yet. Why cant I insert the DOD with 400Hz at both low pass and high pass, then send the low signal to my 70s style vintage Class A Pioneer M-22 amp for the woofer, which has a plastic binding post box on the bass bin, and the high signal to my flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers for the squawker and tweeter horns? (I do have Altec 511B and Beyma CR25 horns coming, so the AK2 crossover will have to be surgically removed eventually, but I break things when I work on them and have never performed this kind of surgery on anything, let alone my big ole babies!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 Bumpity comment, designed to keep my post on top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Colin, If I remember correctly (probably not, but here goes anyway), you can't unhook the woofer from the crossover and just feed the highs to is, while feeding the woofer separately. I was thinking djk mentioned something about it before. Like you will fry the amp feeding the mid/highs? I was thinking you would need a crossover just for the mid/highs for it to work properly. Perhaps he will weigh in on this. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Colin, This is the woofer choke or the part of the network that is in the bass horn. This half of the a modified AA network is made to be floor mounted instead of inside of the bass horn. It would make bi-ampimg easy. But this network alone will sound much better then your AK-2, and you might not feel the need to bi-amp. See the next post for the mid. and tweeter half of the network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 This is a picture of the midrange and tweeter half of the network that can be mounted in the same place that the top half of the AK-2 in mounted. John Warren built these for me to use in place of the ALK that I was using when I was experimenting with different horns and drivers. My Altec and JBL top requires a more custom network. These AA networks offer a slightly better sound and match for the Klipschorn then the ALK. I'm not using them right now and may be tempted to sell them for $500.00. Or I might put them in my AK-2 klipschors, but then I'm not using those Klipschorns eather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 thanks, for the pics, Q-man, guess I will just have to SEE what you are talking about! why don't you post your current sytem configuration in your profile? are you listening to University speaks now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 31, 2004 Author Share Posted May 31, 2004 On second thought, if the AK-2 network is actually two crossovers, one for the woofer in the lower bass bin and one for the squawker and tweeter horns in the upper chamber, then the signal from the binding posts is divided between them. The cable from the upper crossover connects them via the biding post box. The binding post box is inset in the bass bin. Sorry, no pics right now. This AK-2 network looks like it was meant to be bi-amped. There are no screw terminals on the upper crossover. Everything is hard wired. A cable runs from the HF output of the binding post box to the upper crossover. The signal from the amplifier goes to the input binding posts on the bass bins, right? Then it is divided by the woofer crossover, and sent via the monster cable on the output binding posts to the crossover up above. If I unplug the cable to the crossover above, then only the bass bin gets the signal right? That signal is divided by a crossover on the other side of the binding box, but the mids and highs get no signal. If I wire the upper crossover to my flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers, then the bass bin gets no signal, right? But the upper crossover divides the signal between the squawker and tweeter. Then if I power the bass bin with my 22-watt solid-state Pioneer, then the signal is divided (and the woofer protected) by the woofer crossover. Why cant I send a full signal to both upper and lower connections? Do I even need to insert my DOD active crossover upstream (before the amplifiers)? Arent the two AK-2 two crossovers dividing and protecting the drivers? What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Colin: You can separate the sections of your network. The low-pass section on the AA or A is very easy to isolate from the rest of the network -- as Q-man has shown. I'm just not sure how your network is configured. Q-Man: That was some very fine-looking crossover work! Is it yours? Would you identify what amps you are using for the mid/tweeter section and that for the woofer? I'm curious about this.... Erik edit: Got it! John warren built the networks -- fine work, John! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdyer Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Colin: Sorry i didn't notice your post earlier--i don't usually frequent this forum. I'm not qualified to conduct a technical discussion with you, but I can tell you what I have done for the past six years. I had a lot of help from the Klipsch engineers and the regional rep. first, i think you misread my earlier post, or perhaps I misspoke--I meant that I was told you can not equate SS watts with SET watts. I don't use a Mac tube amp on the bass bins---I use an old Nikko SS amp, which I believe is 110 WPC, and has adjustable level and output VU meters. The manner by which Klipsch told me to biamp was very, very simple: 1. remove the wire from the mid/hi crossover from the upper pair of binding posts. 2. Wire your mid/hi amp in to this wire ( I actually removed it and soldered my cable directly to the crossover) 3. Wire your bass driver to the lower binding posts. 4. Adjust bass level until you are pleased with the balance. Sometimes the Nikko VU meters show WPC in the 20 to 40 range with peaks much higher. I've never measured SPL and don't see any need to. I've tried all sorts of amplifier combinations with the Khorns and this is what sounds right to me. Perhaps it compensates for some deficiency in my room or ears. I also like the horns toed out a good bit--in my room and to my tired old ears, it dramatically improves imaging, soundstage, and "air". Perhaps the increase in watts down low compensates for less-than-perfect positioning. I should also note that I have one perfect corner and one less-than-perfect. Anyway, I really don't know s#*! from wild honey, but a buddy runs Lowthers with a Mac tube amp (which I have used to power the Khorns), and we both agree my rig smokes his, at least in all the qualities which matter to me. I wish I was qualified to answer technical questions, but I'm not. i guess that measuring sound and making adjustments based on meter readings is a great way to do it, assuming your ears and your room architecture don't make further adjustments between the meters and your listening position. But the way i feel is that i paid for all this crap and I only care that it sounds right to me, right, wrong, or indifferent. Best of luck with what you are doing--you'll either get there or turn around. Peace. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 I have an old Nikko 5010 myself, any idea where to get specs for it? Yeah, your explanation is simple, that IS what I am trying to get at why cant I do that? The only problem I have is adjusting the bass level, but since my 70s, solid-state Pioneer M-22 dual-monoblock amplifier has 60-watts max, it matches my max output of my Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks ten to one (6-watts) guess I will try it again, need to extend my crossover connections to the Paramours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdyer Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Colin, I think you are going to need some way of "dialing in' the bass level. My level controls are set at about one-third of full output. Have you considered a Creek OBH-10 between your preamp and the Pioneer? I have done this and it works great. The Creek is remote control and the signal can be learned by a universal remote. If money is no object, look at the Placette units. Some people on the forum who biamp seem to feel it is important to be able to adjust the balance "on the fly", I guess for different bass levels for different types of music. I've never felt the need to change the level once I have it set where I like it, and in fact, I think if you need to adjust the level then you have it unbalanced in one instance or the other. Of course, as I said, mine may be unbalanced as well, but it sounds balanced to me and in my room. I do believe that i am compensating for imperfect positioning (toed out), room size and shape, and ears. Sorry, can't help with the Nikko specs, mine is an Alpha 440 model and I see manuals for that model on Ebay pretty often. If I see anything for the 5010 I'll email you. I think Nikko made a pretty sturdy, low-distortion, good-sounding amp which you can pick up for a song on Ebay. Good luck with it Colin. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdyer Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Colin: If you're willing to pay 10 bucks for your Nikko Svc manual try http://www.hifimanuals.com/products.php?pg=7 A.G. Tannenbaum has it for 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 10, 2004 Author Share Posted June 10, 2004 ordered, thaks, $14 with Paypal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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