davidpoynor Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 I have the KLF 20 and want to biamp them, how much power is needed to drive them?... Does the LF need a little larger amp than the HF ? Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Yup you have it correct put as much power as you can running the LF and use the cleanest power you can muster for the HF. Power on the HF is not a huge issue. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 the crossover in the KLF20 is bi-ampable? with bridges between the binding posts? how are you going to attenuate the levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 ---------------- On 1/20/2005 11:10:32 AM Colin wrote: the crossover in the KLF20 is bi-ampable? with bridges between the binding posts? how are you going to attenuate the levels? ---------------- i am pretty sure that the 20's are not bi-wire bi-ampable, i know the 30's are for sure though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 crown d-60 ...finest horn amp around you want a small amp for the high end, so as to avpid that nasty distortion from an amp hardly turned on .,.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidpoynor Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Yes the KLF 20 has the removable bridge and one set of terminals is HF and the other LF.....as far as attenuating the level, could I just use amps with level controls?....I am a kinda new to this, so forgive me if I say somthing stupid..also its rated at 200rms/800peak so how much power do I need for the HF and how much power for the LF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 you need about 5-6 times more power for the woofers than the high end, bi-amping gives you the equvilent of about ten times more power, not that you need it, you need quality low watt power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 ---------------- On 1/20/2005 7:04:22 PM Colin wrote: you need about 5-6 times more power for the woofers than the high end, bi-amping gives you the equvilent of about ten times more power, not that you need it, you need quality low watt power...---------------- No that may be what you need! Besides you can have clean low watt power with clean higher watt power at the same time. Why do people have to push what they think is the only way ? Not everyone listens to the same music in the same way. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Generally compression drivers are several db more efficient than direct-radiating woofers, even efficient DR woofers. Thus when bi-amping a speaker combining compression drivers with DR woofers one can reasonably figure on needing more power for the woofer than for the horns. This is my experience with Altec, JBL and hybrid Klipsch-Altec bi-amped horn systems. This is if one is doing true bi-amping; using an active or passive filter at the line stage between preamp and amplifiers. If the KLFs are set for TRUE bi-amping (as opposed to "fool's bi-amping") then the section of the crossover dealing with midrange low-pass on down and the attendant attenuation of midrange on up is out of the upper range circuit. God knows though what's really going on in there. Personally I wouldn't bi-amp these speakers without a thorough understanding of the existing crossover topography. Better yet I wouldn't bother at all, bi-amping is usually best left to DIY speakerbuilders and pro-sound people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 why is it that on speakers (even the khorns) are not bi-ampable? if i such a great must have feature on speakers that cost less than a grand or around there..... i havn't gotten yet, even on buddy's new theils they are not bi-ampable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I would think that for the price of two amps, you could by one single higher quality amp that would outperfrom the other two. The major benefit to bi-amping is increasing the power output of the speaker while reducing the risk of breaking stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Dr---IME bi-amping lowers distortion and gives better clarity and dynamics; more life and directness. I think this is a result of removing the passive crossover components from the signal path; it's beneficial to have a direct connection between amplifier and driver. I think having reactive compoments at speaker level in and of itself hurts the sound far more than a simple loss of efficiency caused by insertion loss would account for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 ---------------- On 1/21/2005 7:40:49 PM TBrennan wrote: Dr---IME bi-amping lowers distortion and gives better clarity and dynamics; more life and directness. I think this is a result of removing the passive crossover components from the signal path; it's beneficial to have a direct connection between amplifier and driver. I think having reactive compoments at speaker level in and of itself hurts the sound far more than a simple loss of efficiency caused by insertion loss would account for. ---------------- I don't mean to discredit any of the benefits of bi-amping (can't argue with science), but for the money spent I think you could do better with one amp...though it is also very budget dependant. Like you mentioned, the full effects of bi-amping don't happen until you move the crossover into the line level stage (instead of the speaker level stage). The problem here is a third device must now be purchased which raises the cost. Adding another device also brings new compromises into the system which can very quickly degrade the sound. For digital reproduction, I think bi-amping reaches it's full potential when all the processing is done in the digital realm. The DBX ZonePro 1260 is the only product I'm aware of having a digital input where this can be done. it costs $1800. When you're talking about spending this kind of money, I think you will get better results by addressing the acoustics of the room first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 If it's a speaker, and it's got wires coming off it, it's biampable. Is it worth it? Dunno. Doing it right isn't cheap or easy to figure out for some folks. I don't see the big mystery about it. Any pro rig I've ever seen was at least biamped, and it wasn't really a problem. Ears are a must. When you go cheap and try using a passive crossover with two amps, that's where I can see balancing issues coming to the fore. Tommy, I just stole some 9844A. I had intended to part em out for $$, but when I did some poking around, I have a feeling they will make some veddy nice monitors for ye olde project studio. One seems to have a crossover issue, but shouldn't be too onerous to overcome (hope springs eternal), Thought I'd let you know that some of your comments @ AA were influential. I don't have em yet, but have to take a 6-hr round trip to avoid shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Clarke---9844s? Very nice, very nice indeed. A friend has the furniture versions, Capistranos I think they're called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Be careful with "true" bi-amping 1. Tweeters with passive crossover removed because any amplifier misbehavior (for example, turn on/off thumps) likes to have tweeters for breakfast. 2. Accidental mishaps on the volume control could send you back to the repair shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 The vast majority of tweeters wouldn't handle much of any program material without some sort of dividing network, to say nothing of thumps, and whatnot. You gotta watch out for that whatnot The right way to do it is with an active (or electronic-whichever) crossover. It divides the signal at line level - before the amplifiers. The passive networks are then an unecessary redundancy, and besides, you don't need them. Heh.... Anyway, once you get things situated, you just make small adjustments, like you would use an EQ. Much cleaner, though. Tom- Yeah, I'm an idiot. I grabbed them with the most profitable intentions. Shoulda known better. I'll have to turn some of the stuff in the studio that falls under the category of "quirky, but don't really use it". Time to brush up on my tube RTR listing skills. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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