hurdy_gurdyman Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I had an eye opening experience over the last couple of days. Ive been using a 1964 H.H.Scott integrated tube amp driving a pair of Klipsch Heresies for some time now (with separate subwoofer.) I decided to dig out my old harman-kardon citation 16 ss amp and see what it would do with the Herseys. I used an old Marantz ss receiver for a preamp. I was shocked at the difference. The Heresys with the old Scott amp sounded very well balanced, especially after lowering the mid-horns output by about 3 dB. With the citation 16 driving them they became unlistenable! The bass was much leaner and the highs and upper mids more pronounced. The sound became vary grating and sibilant. I tried lowering the tweeter output and played around with the crossover and got it better, but not good enough. Next I decided to dig out my PA monitors, a pair of EV sx100s. These have a12 Electro-Voice EVG-12 woofer with a horn tweeter crossed at 1800 Hz (I think.) The sound was superb! Id tried the EVs with the Scott a year or so back and thought they sounded a bit muddy in the mids. Not with the harman-kardon! This sounds really great (and this coming from a tubaholic!) Ive always known that some speakers like tubes better and some like ss better, but I never dreamed that it could make such a difference in how the frequency balance sounded. Now I have some serious thinking on which one to keep listening to. It is kinda nice to have 200 watts a channel driving 99.5 dB sensitivity speakers, even if they do only go down to 80 Hz (thats what subs are for.) wonder if this type of experience might be the reason so many people that have heard Klipsch Referance speakers have complained of the horns being harsh. I suspect they really do sound much better with a classic tube amp (at least as far as Heresies are concerned.) It's also interesting to note that the Scott (LK-48- has a great reputation with some and is hated by a few others. The HK citation 16 also has a great reputation with some and is hated by others. Hmmm... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Dave, Some things just don't mate well. My HIIs with my Dynaco ST-70 (well, it WAS an ST-70) sounds very warm and balanced. Even has tight, well defined bass. A little leaner on SS. This is driving it with my mixer (Alesis 16 channel). One of my favorite albums is Phil Keaggy's "Lights of Madrid". On one song, the violins were almost unbearable with SS, but with tubes it is much smoother and tolerable. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 HG-Man, very interesting review. A few things might be going on. First, it could be the pre-amp that is coloring the sound. The pre- amplifies the signal much more than the amp does in relative terms. Hence, that might be the first suspect to interview. Secondly, any signal will of course be amplified, beit good, bad or indifferent. The amp might be the culprit afterall. Bottom line with Klipsch, though, is that the efficiency of the speaker is going to limit the amps' performance to the 0-2A range where solid state distortion tends to run rampant. Tubes do a little better in that range, as do digital amps. Borrow one of the Sonic Impact amps @ $20, and give that a spin. It might be eye-opening! _______________________________ Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable w/ Goldring Eroica H MC Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CDP with 24 bit/192 KHz Upsampling Wright Sound WPP-100C Phono Stage JF Lessard Pantheon 6SN7 SRPP Preamp w/ RCA 5R4GY & Sylvania 6SN7 JF Lessard Horus Parafeed Cobalt 2A3 SET Monoblocks w/ Tung Sol 5687 & AVVT 2A3 1976 KCBR Klipschorns with ALK Crossovers Gear Online: Two Channel & Home Theater Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 ---------------- On 4/1/2005 9:48:24 PM Chris Robinson wrote: HG-Man, very interesting review. A few things might be going on. First, it could be the pre-amp that is coloring the sound. The pre- amplifies the signal much more than the amp does in relative terms. Hence, that might be the first suspect to interview. Secondly, any signal will of course be amplified, beit good, bad or indifferent. The amp might be the culprit afterall. Bottom line with Klipsch, though, is that the efficiency of the speaker is going to limit the amps' performance to the 0-2A range where solid state distortion tends to run rampant. Tubes do a little better in that range, as do digital amps. Borrow one of the Sonic Impact amps @ $20, and give that a spin. It might be eye-opening! _______________________________ Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable w/ Goldring Eroica H MC Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CDP with 24 bit/192 KHz Upsampling Wright Sound WPP-100C Phono Stage JF Lessard Pantheon 6SN7 SRPP Preamp w/ RCA 5R4GY & Sylvania 6SN7 JF Lessard Horus Parafeed Cobalt 2A3 SET Monoblocks w/ Tung Sol 5687 & AVVT 2A3 1976 KCBR Klipschorns with ALK Crossovers Gear Online: Two Channel & Home Theater Systems ---------------- Chris, The EV's are more efficient then the Heresies and sound very good with the HK, so I doubt if the low amp output is the problem. I suspect that it's just a bad match putting the HK with the Heresies (may have something to do with the high impedance horns in the Heresies?) The Marantz pre is sounding great with the EV's, also. The harman-kardon and EV speakers are making some very clean and musical sounds right now. I think I'm going to leave this set-up for a while and see how it wears with time. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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