D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Chris, no pics! They aren't uploading correctly. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 They are showing up on my screen. I am using the "insert image" button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 But they are not showing up here! (they are still local on your computer - try .jpg conversion and upload them). DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 They are jpeg's. I took them with a sony camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Well, at least I can see that one! But only that one. Whatever you did on that is working. That driver looks suspiciously close to a K33, I don't remember the frame being so cheaply stamped on the SL driver. The square magnet would be correct for SL, though. Take this opinion with a grain of salt. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I'm sorry for the size of the picture. A sub-assembly, or additional enclosure 3" deep is attached to the front of the bass bin, and houses a 7" cone midrange driver (Audax???) and a t-35-like tweeter. The crossover is at the lower half of this subassembly. The bass bin is the same as the first clone Speakerlab made except the sides are chopped off making the bass bin only 23" wide. Also it has no tailboard. The bass response, as one might expect, is a little disappointing. (I built a pair of the bass section, with EV components (EVM-15L, 1824 mid, SM120 horn and T-35. My University Classic performs much better in the low end!!). I'll post the sub-assembly plans and driver info when I figure out how to reduce the size. Somebody please tell me how. Please try to repost the plans, I'd love to see them! As far as the performance you experienced: I don't know about the "missing" tailboard. That feature (or is it drawback) is quite common to corner horns of the past, but I wouldn't particularily want that today! {edit} After considering the sonic value of the standard Klipschorn tailboard, PERHAPS there is something to be said about NOT having one. After all, it is a direct reflector (i.e., obstruction) to wave flow in that the tailboard is just a 180 reflection-creator, the reflected wave being directed back at 180 degrees back into the channels it just came from. This is probably not too good for the waveform. Note that the tailboard as seen on the Khorn was dropped completely and instead Huygen reflectors are employed on the Jubilee. As far as the bass performance, the driver wasn't the greatest choice, either, however, I did the same thing way back when, too: The EVM-15L is a fine driver, I had EVM-15B's in mine back then. Little did I know (then) that the throat cavity opening was too small for that driver. It would be about 1/4 as efficient as it could have been with a wider throat opening! Also, the back chamber was too small which raised the Fs of the driver, too. Neither of the EV drivers was a good candidate for the horn! If I only knew back then what I know now! I think that Speakerlab is getting a bad rap from people who bit off more than they could chew with building a kit. Frankly, it is not an easy build. Then the DIYers slapped in any old driver and setup and then were disappointed with the results?! I heard the real things setup with all-stock SL drivers and they totally kicked some tail! No wonder PWK didn't want anybody building Khorns from kits or plans. He would have (and evidently had experience) had the same compaints leveled at him and his product, too. Specifically speaking of the "Klone"-style (Khorn ripoff), the Speakerlab "K"s are fine horns WHEN BUILT CORRECTLY and use the appropriate drivers. They will perform every bit in the bass-end as well (if not better) as a genuine Klipschorn, after all they are almost an exact copy! The first ones were, in fact exact copies right down to the invalid slot size for the exclusive use of the K33E. However, the SL crossover, I think every one would agree, is not up to the standards of the Klipsch product. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 I am having trouble posting pics here at work. Teh guy is the original owner (he bought them in 1983 when he lived in Seattle). According to the seller, this was the first time that the bass bins were ever opened up so I think the driver is the factory one. It seemed to put out some bass even though it wa sin teh middel of the room. I think that if I put this in my false corners it will shake teh house. What are these sepakers worth? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Those are great drivers, they can really flap your pantlegs and rattle the dishes out of the kitchen cupboard. I had a guy do that demoing his SL "K"s which hhe finished building; Kenwood 60 watt per channel receiver, not that loud of volume either! I remember the experience to this day: Doobie Bros. "Takin it to the Streets" album. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Let me try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Driver Info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 D-Man, This is my drawing (not Speakerlab's) of the front sub-assembly. The lower section holds the crossover. There seems to be more parts than is necessary. The rectangular piece looks like just a fill-in. What do you think about making an MTM arrangement? Bill Fitzmaurice did it in one of his horns and got very good results. The cutting plans are coming up shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 "What are these speakers worth?" Chris, I don't know. If they are in good shape, I would imagine a little less than comparable Khorns in the same shape, due to the differences in market demand. I would guess up to $1K or so for the pair would be reasonable, if they look and sound good (i.e., all drivers work). This looks like a pretty cool design, I was in college at the time and I evidently missed it completely. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 D-Man, I built my K-clones with 6 x 13 throats. They really put out very good bass but not like my University Classic. There's no contest. I think that's where my disappointment with them comes from. I always thought that maybe if I put a tailboard on them, the response would be better. I've never thought of the tailboard as a 180 degree reflector. I think you're right. I'll try to post a couple of pictures again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 This is the lower section where the crossover is mounted. I have not seen an actual picture of it, maybe Chris has taken a photo. Chris, Are you using the image button to insert your pictures? Try File Attachment and Browse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Q-man says the same thing about the Classic. He thinks that it might have something to do with the Classic having less folds and the folds it does have are far less "drastic" than any of the bifurcated horns, and I think he may have something there. I haven't ever heard one, but the 50Hz Fc has always scared me off of making one, I didn't think the response could be "worth" the overall size of the cabinet. But maybe I'll have to think about it... Looking forward to more of your posts. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 The mid and tweeter board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 The Classic needs some heavy bracings, in the doghouse and in the duct. There is too much panel vibration due to the amount of bass output. But it is clean and the bass notes distinct. This is the side fill-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I did my own calculations of the Classic's flare. The section after the throat is about 31 hz expansion rate, then expands rapidly as it exits the mouth. I got lost in the expansion at the mouth area. Abe Cohen says in his book to use a 40hz theoretical cutoff to design a 50hz horn. My guess is that he used a multi-flare design for the classic, using 31 hz as the initial expansion. I might be wrong. Q-man says the classic goes down to somewhere in the 40's. Did Cohen use 31hz cutoff for a 40hz horn? I don't know. Q-man, I got my classic from e-bay. $30.00. 422 miles away from Va Beach. Tnx for the Dean plans you sent me. Going back to the subject of this thread, here's the last of the cutting plans for the sub-assembly. I have extra sets of plans for the new K, bass bin and all, but not the crossover. If anyone is interested, shoot me an e-mail. No charge for copying, just send me some stamps. Armando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I read somewhere that the Classic had a 50Hz Fc. In calculating the horn length and cross-sectional doubling lengths vs. mouth size, I found that acceptable. I also attempted but could not design a unitary 40Hz horn within the size constraint of the Classic or Dean even for the corner (1/8th space). I am satisfied that it is a 50Hz Fc horn. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 The good doctor (Edgar) says the same thing, 50hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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