What volume?

[ZAKO]

60db is more than enough for me. Of course Im im useing 4 Klipschorns. Shure loads up the room.

[www.records]

Maron, what part of MO. do you live? I live in the SW corner and just wondered if we were close.

-Steve

[pauln]

The dB level measure for the mosquito in the chart was probably at 1 meter. You don't get much room gain with a mosquito, but the one you mention may have been near field, or even in-ear? I think only the female mosquitos buzz...

You are right about the perceived loudness vs the actual energy. This is quite visible when watching a SPL during music. It seems strange that some of the loudest sounding sounds don't measure as high as some softer sounding sounds. Compression can make a sound be perceived as louder, as well can some other tricks used by mucisians and audio engineers to outsmart the peculiarities of how the ear and mind process audio information with respect to focus and attention.

For example, as a guitar player I know that if I play a note straight it will have its front edge attack produced at a certain level, but a listener will hear slightly less of the begining part of the attack as it is an unexpected initiation of sound. However, if I rake the pick across a couple of deadened strings in my stoke to play the same note, the rake noise acts as a perceptual anticipation cue for the comeing note and the note actually sounds louder because you catch all the begining of the attack after already having started listening (attending) to the raking sound - rather than being caught by surprise. This all happens in a few microseconds at the begining of the note, but it makes a big difference in how the note is heard.

Flamenco guitarist do things like this. When singers include a little breath and lip sound at the onset of a note it does a similar thing to the way you attend and anticiapte the sound. Trumpet players do this very effectively with mutes to get a very intimate sound (Miles comes to mind). Violin players use a whole arsenal of techniques developed over centuries to elicit all kinds of very subtle effects that can only be percieved in the mind of the listener. A great part of what distinguishes great muscians from average players is an intuitive grasp of these mind-to-mind techniques that communicate the beauty of a performance so well. I know that when other guitarist ask me how I play something, in the course of deconstructing what I do, I discover all kinds of little movements, placements, angle of attack variactions, touching strings in slight ways, rolling fingers to use a harder or softer part of the finger tip, on and on - that I do without thinking - none of these things have I intentionally sought to learn how to do. All musicians will reflect and realize that to focus directly on these things impairs one's ability to execute. Its as if the hands themselves learn how to do these things apart from the mind of the player.

Its nice to have a system that reveals the more subtle varieties of these low level cues to the listner, no?

The test tone level/heard discrepancy is interesting - these are low freq tones right? - variation in hearing seems to be a more high frequency thing. Maybe if your ears and the test mic aren't in the same place within the room one could be in a node and the other not (anti-node?).

Pauln

[pauln]

I was thinking it could be a more livelier room, not that I am psychic but remember your posts of the pictures of your LaScalas. Very nice set up. No doubt your personal preference is not having music screaming out you, but perhaps the glass provides some liveliness that many forum members enjoy but don't get until there are higher dbs levels in thier rooms. I guess point is the room (as well as neighbors) plays an impact on how loud we play our music.

Using a Rat Shack Meter I have seen peaks as loud at 100dbs on my system, but it is usually like 3 times a year when I have had a few cocktails and conditions allow (wife is out or has had some drinks as well). I usually listen at about an est. (per the rat shack meter) peak C weighted 85 dbs, which feels quite loud.

The glass... I never even thought about it. I think you are on to something here. I don't have a way to properly measure RT-60, but if I clap my hands loudly at my listening chair I hear no echos, just a diminishing mid-range ambience that is completely gone in the same time it takes to blink your eyes fast twice.. Does that seem like too much? The back and back sides of the room open into three more large open parts of the house with the far back wall behind me actually being the back of the carpeted dining room about 25 feet behind my chair. I like this space (I think the LaScalas like it, too.) Is there a simple way to test the room?

Pauln