Subwoofer output low when using 6-channel input from SACD

[THX1138]

When I play SACD's or DVD-Audio Disks through my system(Samsung HD-DVD841), the subwoofer output is barely audible if not nonexistent when my receiver is in 6-channel input mode. When I switch to a digital stream of the same track being played, either DD 5.1 or DD Stereo, or CD audio, whatever is available, the difference is night and day. Subwoofer output is then normal, usually booming because I have the gain turned all the way up on the RW-10 to hear anything when using 6-channel analog. Let me add I have no other subwoofer output issues with any other input component or media played, only when using the analog 6 channel input on my Yamaha HTR-5660. The Subwoofer output cable is Monster Interlink 201 Subwoofer THX-cert.

Just purchased the Monster 6 channel input cable for SACD/DVD-Audio applications, which is 6 Interlink 400 mkII analog cables, individually labled to match the 6-ch input/output. Paid $99.95. Installed last week and realized that the only bass I hear is coming from my Mains(RB-35's). I've tried several different selections: Pink Floyd's DSOM SACD, Led Zeppelin's DVD-Audio, DVD-A Sampler disks...all with similar results. I've actually put my hand on the sub's cone, when you switch to 6-ch input, it's as if the sub just dies.

I've owned all of the components for about 2 years and as previously mentioned have no other problems from any input/output. I've even utilized the SACD player's internal speaker test utility to test sub output and the player is capable of passing a test tone to the sub through the analog 6ch....I actually unplugged the Toslink F/O just to make sure it was going through the 6ch. This is my first experience with SACD,...Is this drastic drop in LFE level normal for SACD/DVD'A? All other channels sound better in analog 6-channel mode except for the subwoofer. I've substituted the subwoofer cable, visually inspected the RCA jacks on SACD plyer and Rcvr, twisted connections during playback, and no difference in sub output.

I'm guessing either the subwoofer input on the Rcvr is bad or sub output on DVD/SACD is bad, I don't have any components (Rcvr/SACD player)to substitute for troubleshooting....any thoughts would be appreciated.

[jdm56]

Many receivers have no bass management on their multi-channel analog inputs and likewise, many players have none on their analog multi-channel outputs. And even if they do, it is separate from their other bass management functions and will have to be set separately.

If this is your situation, the best cure (other than going to full-range speakers all around) is the Outlaw ICBM, which is an outboard, analog multi-channel bass management device.

[dougdrake]

Perhaps this might help isolate the trouble. Try connecting your subwoofer directly to the LFE output of your SACD player. Be sure to turn down the volume on the sub amp before doing so. Also be sure your SACD speaker configuration says Sub=Yes. If you get output in this mode, but not when connected to your receiver, then you know the SACD player is set up correctly.

You might also want to check the channel volume levels in both your SACD player and your receiver and make the volume on the sub channel is turned up. My receiver has different channel level settings for different inputs, so my 8-channel input could be set differently than digital or Toslink inputs.

[westcott]

You may also want to check to make sure you are not sending full range signals to your subwoofer.

SACD and DVD Audio specs include full range for all six channels. Not a good thing, IMO but is something that is a relic of the movie industry.

As suggested, without proper bass management for the analog signals, you may not be gaining much with the two audio formats.

I would check by disconnection all of your speakers except your sub and play your discs to make sure you are not hearing voices or instruments from your subwoofer.

[homemade]

I have a Panasonic F87 5 disc dvd player that as built-in dts and prologic 2 decoders. The prologic decoder is much, much better than my Yamaha's older pro logic model. My Yamaha HTR5130 has 6channel input (not built-in dts decoder) and can vary the amt. of subwoofer output but the Panasonic F87 apparently doesn't output anything on the subwoofer channel when in the prologic mode (when playing back surround encoded cd's) although it works great with dvd's. I would assume I would have to set my main speakers as small (Khorn knockoffs) to get output from the subwoofer. Perhaps a better way to hook up the subwoofer is to not use the subwoofer outputs at all but use the high level speaker inputs into the subwoofer amp. This way one is guaranteed output from the sub.

[Ki Choi]

THX1138:

I have the same DVD player but have no problem with subwoofer analog output playing all formats it support. There are many DVD-A and multichannel SACD disks that does not have subwoofer output in its mix. I would suggest obtaiing Chesky, Telarc, or other reference DVD-A and multichannel SACD and check for the subwoofer output.

I do have a question for you. I have gone through three different HD841 players with the same problem of DVD-A playing about ~15 min and its ananlog outputs and digital output stoping while the disk is still spinning and the counter is going along fine. I would then stop the player and restart and it would be fine for another ~15 min. Did you experience any problems with DVD-As? All of the SACDs including multichannel SACDs are playing fine.

Ki

[THX1138]

Ki,

Thanks for the tip on the reference tests....I have a sample DVD-A from Creative Labs and the sub output works (sort of)on some of the tracks. There is no sub response at all from DarkSideofTheMoon SACD or from Led Zeppelin HowtheWestwasWon.

Personally, I'm very disappointed from the DVD-A/SACD formats...I believe some of the new emerging Digital formats such as High Resolution Stereo, DTS 96/24, and Dolby Dig Plus will equal/surpass the audio potential of DVD-A and SACD. If you check out the music stores there are several artists offering "Dual Disk" albums, DVD side/CD side on a single disk. The DVD side plays High Res Stereo that doesn't require special equipment....sounds good, too, IMHO.

The only problem I've had with my player not inherent to design flaw, such as lack of Bass Management via Analog outputs, is digital audio skipping while decoding DTS tracks on movies. Dolby Digital tracks had no problem. After some research, I found that one other person had the same problem and resolved it by upgrading the firmware. The "read me" file associated with the upgrade on Samsung's website did not list resolution of any audio problems with the patch, only DVI connection recognition any time a device is powered up that is connected via the DVI. I took my chances and perfomed the upgrade and "Viola!" the problem disappeared, much to my delight. The upgrade is very easy to perform...takes about five minutes once you have downloaded and burned the .exe to a CD-R. Might be worth a try. Good luck and thanks.

Tim

PS: I just went to Samsung's support website and the firmware file w/instructions is gone......Nice. I just downloaded it last week. If you want to do it, email me at KE5FTZ@cox.net and I'll send you the 2Mb file and instructions.

[Ki Choi]

Tim:

Thanks for your input. I don't wont two disks you mentioned but would guess that they were discrete 5 channel mix from their old CD-4 without dedicated sub channel.

I had no problem decoding DTS and my latest player is about three months old. Do you know the key stroke it takes to find out what version of firmware I have? I will try the setup menu for one. And let me know the latest firmware you have, I will compare it to what I have.

Thanks,

Ki

[westcott]

Ki,

Thanks for the tip on the reference tests....I have a sample DVD-A from Creative Labs and the sub output works (sort of)on some of the tracks. There is no sub response at all from DarkSideofTheMoon SACD or from Led Zeppelin HowtheWestwasWon.

Personally, I'm very disappointed from the DVD-A/SACD formats...I believe some of the new emerging Digital formats such as High Resolution Stereo, DTS 96/24, and Dolby Dig Plus will equal/surpass the audio potential of DVD-A and SACD. If you check out the music stores there are several artists offering "Dual Disk" albums, DVD side/CD side on a single disk. The DVD side plays High Res Stereo that doesn't require special equipment....sounds good, too, IMHO.

The only problem I've had with my player not inherent to design flaw, such as lack of Bass Management via Analog outputs, is digital audio skipping while decoding DTS tracks on movies. Dolby Digital tracks had no problem. After some research, I found that one other person had the same problem and resolved it by upgrading the firmware. The "read me" file associated with the upgrade on Samsung's website did not list resolution of any audio problems with the patch, only DVI connection recognition any time a device is powered up that is connected via the DVI. I took my chances and perfomed the upgrade and "Viola!" the problem disappeared, much to my delight. The upgrade is very easy to perform...takes about five minutes once you have downloaded and burned the .exe to a CD-R. Might be worth a try. Good luck and thanks.

Tim

PS: I just went to Samsung's support website and the firmware file w/instructions is gone......Nice. I just downloaded it last week. If you want to do it, email me at KE5FTZ@cox.net and I'll send you the 2Mb file and instructions.

Here are a couple of links that I think everyone should read to avoid any problems with SACD and DVD Audio.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/DVD-AudioSACD12.php

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/DVD-AudioSACD2.php

Hope this helps someone!