KBlair Posted August 28, 2000 Share Posted August 28, 2000 Hey guys, I just installed a fresh copy of Win98 (not SE) on a Tyan Trinity AT S1590 mobo. I took a peak at the Device Manager and under "Hard drive controllers" is has 3 entries: 1) Primary Bus Master IDE controller (dual fifo) 2) Secondary Bus Master IDE controller (dual fifio) 3) VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller (Ultra DMA) Now, the $64,000 question, why does it say both Bus Master and fifo? I used the latest VIA Busmaster drivers. What's going on? I never gave this much thought till you guys started talking about it. c>------------------ Who knows what evil lurks in the darkness of The Kave ? www.thekave.net Home of The Klipschmonster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekysteve Posted August 28, 2000 Share Posted August 28, 2000 I've always approached ATI with extreme caution- their driver support is awful. Have they improved their support recently? ------------------ PLEASE SEARCH THE GOD D@MN ARCHIVES BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo22582 Posted August 28, 2000 Share Posted August 28, 2000 I hear the Radeon drivers are rock solid and squeeze every drop of performance out of it too for once. It seems ATI may finally be on the right track. ------------------ My Pros are here...there goes the neighborhood!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekk Posted August 28, 2000 Author Share Posted August 28, 2000 Sorry Distec, I beleive you have been mistaken for quite some time. Fifo does not euqal Bus Mastering. Think of Fifo as a 'dumb' protocol, every instruction or message sent by the IDE controller to south bridge must get a reply from whatever device it is directed to before another south bridge device can send any instruction over the bus. With Bus Mastering: -Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controllers -Primary Bus Master IDE Controller -Secondary Bus Master IDE Controller An IDE device can not only send messages over the PCI bus faster, but other devices don't have to wait for the IDE message to return before they can send messages over the PCI bus. Like I said, alot of users are confused about Bus Mastering. Check out a page on Bus Mastering: http://www.overclockers.com/tips01/ Get drivers and articles regarding all chipsets: http://www.bmdrivers.com Kblair: You have the Via KX133 Chipset, don't you? Yeah, VIA's notation is a little off. Bus Mastering is installed (Because the daughter devices say 'Bus Master') I'm not sure why is says Fifo as well. I installed the VIA IDE Update on my K7V at home and I got the same deal. Allthough, I went to run defrag, and after that I was sure it was installed. (I had just installed windows, office97, and some games, and i defraged 5 partitions totaling 46GB in 1.5 minutes!) I ran a test, a re formated my drive, and installed the same apps, but didn't install bus mastering, and it took 15 minutes. There really is no comparison! Distec: While I've tried to explain that Fifo and Bus Mastering are different things, it doesn't appear to have worked. I'd like to see where your getting your info as well. What I am most confused about is how you think that Fifo is bus mastering. Please explain. ------------------ A cookie is just a cookie, but a Fig Newton is fruit and cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekk Posted August 28, 2000 Author Share Posted August 28, 2000 For you guys who just got the gf2 or are looking forward to the new Ati card, I would advise to wait for a while after it comes out. I think the frame rates that these new cards support is so beyond practical that the extra dough just isn't worth it. I mean, what is the difference between 80 and 120fps?? Your eyes only take 30 fps anyway (or something low like that) I know that actual performance is lower than bench marks, but if your gonna get a new card, at least get one that has features and good drivers. Ati has had some questionable drivers in the past, but maybe they are getting better. And if it supports EMBM, go for it. Me personally, I am gonna wait for the Matrox G450 comming out in Q3 or Q4 of this year. Ill post more info on this ------------------ A cookie is just a cookie, but a Fig Newton is fruit and cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBlair Posted August 28, 2000 Share Posted August 28, 2000 Please do Tekk, I'm interested in that G450. I've got the Via Apollo MVP3 chipset, it's an older AMD K2-450 system that's been giving me headaches for the past month. I found the problem though. You guys know the little thermal pad between the heatsink and tthe procesor, well whatever moron put this system together neglected to remove the little piece of plastic on the thermal pad before he put it on the processor. Can you say crashed and burned, literally? About ATIs driver support, I have used ATI cards for years, from the ATI RagePRO 4mb, the Xpert 98 (rage XL) 8mb, to my current card, Xpert2000 (rage128) 32mb. ATI is no better or worse than any other company as far a s drivers go. Their tech support is pretty good, I had to call to get an installation CD of this Xpert98 (rage XL). For some reason, they drivers aren't available on their website, only on the CD. Well, the tech support guy didn't have access to them either, but the sales department did, and they sent me a CDROM which I got in about a week. Pretty good customer support IYAM.c>------------------ Who knows what evil lurks in the darkness of The Kave ? www.thekave.net Home of The Klipschmonster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekysteve Posted August 28, 2000 Share Posted August 28, 2000 Thanks for the info K, maybe the desktop support is better than the laptop support. We have a Dell laptop with the ATI Rage Mobility-P card, and boy is it messed up. Dell says it's ATI's problem, ATI says it's Dell's and Microsoft's problem. I got nowhere after three continuous days of fighting with Dell and ATI's phone support. Luckily, someone on Delltalk made their own driver that fixed all of the problems with the ATI driver... After that incident, I swore I'd never even speak the word ATI (or Dell). I might have to take a look at the Radeon... ------------------ PLEASE SEARCH THE GOD D@MN ARCHIVES BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekk Posted August 29, 2000 Author Share Posted August 29, 2000 Your right about Dell and Ati geekysteve, I think you will have a hell of a time finding drivers for the - P in any of Dell's Inspiron laptops. Ati doesn't release them as Kblair pointed out. Dell won't be much better. I wanted to redo a inspiron 3500 that had windows98 on it, and put win95 on it because installSheild was flipping out. Luckily, the DVD player and the Zip driver were ATAPI, and I acutally found sound drivers on Dell's website, but I couldn't get the video. I tried the Rage1 and Rage2 drivers, but both didn't work. Drivers for laptops, thats something that needs to be fixed. ------------------ A cookie is just a cookie, but a Fig Newton is fruit and cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekk Posted August 29, 2000 Author Share Posted August 29, 2000 Look for a new thread started by me, I am going to post some notes about released and upcoming video cards. Hooray, I am a fast newbie! ------------------ A cookie is just a cookie, but a Fig Newton is fruit and cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekysteve Posted August 29, 2000 Share Posted August 29, 2000 More bad news for ATI... Looks like the new Radeon got a little spanking from the Elsa versioned geForce2. Chickshardware did a review, and an Elsa running detonator3 drivers beat-up on the Radeon pretty good. ------------------ PLEASE SEARCH THE GOD D@MN ARCHIVES BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamus34 Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 The thing that pisses me off about the great video card debate is the fact that Nvidia has used (basically) the same chip for the past year and a half or so. The GeForce chip is still a Geforce. Stop "upgrading" old technology and let us cut our teeth on something new. I have a TNT2 Ultra and until I see something that makes it look like a candidate for the static bag of death I refuse to shell out hundreds of $$$ for a chip where in the time I mentioned they have: 1)Increased the internal performance marginally. As I think Kblair said "What's the difference between 80FPS and 120FPS?" 2)Soon to increase the memory bandwith that the RAM uses to help eliminate that bottle-neck. I do not consider these items to be new technology and definately not worth the extra $150 - $200 dollars they charge for this so called new technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekk Posted September 2, 2000 Author Share Posted September 2, 2000 80FPS and 120FPS!! Lets be realistic. I challenge anyone to setup a system with the same game running at 40fps and 100fps. If you can tell the difference, I'll be suprised. Your eyes only work at 30 anyway! ------------------ A cookie is just a cookie, but a Fig Newton is fruit and cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamus34 Posted September 4, 2000 Share Posted September 4, 2000 That is exactly my point. Right now I can run everything I own just fine, and I know any slowdown I encounter with a program has to do with my running a P-II 400 than my videocard. So I wait until the herd thins a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPhys71 Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 I agree with you Jamus, although I'm a little further behind than you. I'm running a TNT 16MB (!) on a PIII 500. FYI: I have it "overclocked" to 105/115. Whew! Wanna talk about old tech? I just can't justify shelling out $400 for the latest and greatest vid card, although I probably should upgrade since anything would be a pretty big improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 I'm still using my trusty creative labs tnt2 ultra... I was wondering, do you guys know up to which point it's overclockable? I have a cool little overclocking utility, but I don't know when I will cross the safety line... Any suggestions? ------------------ 'cuz nobody ever said "Pump up the treble!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamus34 Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 Seb, at a guess I'd say you might get 15 or so MHz (I think that's what they use to measure vid card speed) but in reality it matters on how well made you card is. If its got a good heatsink and the proper amount of conducting gel you can probably get a halfway decent gain. If it's a sloppy job then you might not to get it to run stable at any speed above factory. ...Now where are those GeForce vs Radeon benchmarks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 that kinda was my question, i was wondering how well built and suitable to ocing the creative labs 3d blaster tnt2 ultra was... ------------------ 'cuz nobody ever said "Pump up the treble!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamus34 Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 Oh, sorry, thought you meant OC a TNT2 ultra in general. From what I heard Creative makes pretty good vid cards (as opposed to sound cards), so I'd say you'd be in pretty good shape, but I have no personal exp. with those cards myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gxcad Posted October 1, 2000 Share Posted October 1, 2000 I've heard that the ram used on the videocard makes a big difference in overclockability. Hyundai ram is favored but that is all I know. If you are looking for reviews PLEASE TRY ]WWW.NEOSEEKER.COM I promise it won't dissapoint you, great site for looking for reviews. -Gxcad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPhys71 Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 OK, all this talk is making me drool. I'm going to upgrade my TNT 16 MB. Does anyone have a Radeon yet? It may not get quite as many FPS as the GF2 but like everyone's saying, who cares whether it's 80 or 85 FPS? Anyway, I'm wondering if the picture quality is as good as the reviews claim. That would probably sell me as long as the drivers are stable. //edit// OK, just read a bunch of reviews and maybe the Radeon's not the one to buy. What do you guys think about the Geforce2 MX DDR as a good choice considering bang for the buck? I found the Asus (the only MX DDR I could find, BTW) version for $142 on www.pricewatch.com . ------------------ A flute with no holes is not a flute. A doughnut with no holes is a danish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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