Test of Klipschorns: 1993 with AK-3 vs. 1981 with AA

[meagain]

I wish you were all here with me to hear this and explain things to me cuz I'm having a real eye-opener. And (naturally) also very confused.

I had 1981 with AAs which I replaced with Dean's. I came across local 1993's with ak-3 and had to get them if only to pass off to another member. The price was beyond right and I figured I might be able to get away without tweaking the ak-3 crossovers. Out of convenience, we replaced the rear cornwalls with these for HT. Today I finally got a chance to give them a real listen. My main objective was to listen for "piercy". One isn't in a great situation with corner sealing... in fact, there is no wall at all behind one side of one. The other was rigged with a 1" slab of mdf wedged in good & tight which served me well in the past. I figured due to improper sealing, I'd get less bass which would in itself make them sound bright. I put on music that has parts that make me cringe & cover my ears. As these parts came up, I prepared to be in pain. It didn't happen. No pierce. I found this incredulous to the point where I figured the tweeters weren't working. But they seem to be. I only did a pillow test, but the tweeter didn't hurt me. The problem is, the rest of them basically suck. I realize I need to place them better but vocals are bark-ish (medium sized dog), grainy?, a tad hollow (singing in a cave)? Just IDK. Not what I'm used to. They just don't sound good overall except the highs (tweeters?) which seem to be 'balanced' and 'right' to me. Course, for all I know, THOSE tweeters are messed up.

Plugged in the '81s with Deans x-overs and it was like.... Ahhhhh. Just beautiful in comparison. Clear, detailed, great bass, great midrange (or at least low-mid). Very "3-d". Until a muted trumpet or high point came in which caused an audible yelp. What a remarkable difference between the 2. I'm working with Dean to see if I can tweak the tweeter cap or something but because these speakers (which both have the k77m) are so different in sound there.... I wonder if my 1981 tweeters have some type of issue cuz it's hard for me to believe this difference is mere crossovers? IDK.

I think the first thing I want to do is figure out if these 1993 ak-3's are working ok. My problem is that they're so freekishly different from what I know. Soldered x-over situation - and whats up with these fuses? I see that there are push clamps on the midhorn (k401), but I have to crawl in there a bit to see the tweeter hookup. I thought I'd disconnect the mid, then tweeter, etc. Check phase, check for corrosion on connectors, etc. But... What on earth is the purpose of these fuses? I've not checked them, but I assume if they were blown, the speakers wouldn't work.

I'm so confused and shocked that I don't even know what my question is.... Oh, is there any good chain-of-command method to proper testing for these ak-3 khorns? I think they aren't right.

[Guest " "]

Alot of folks have reported unpleasent differences in tweeter sound which dissapear fonce the diaprhrams are replaced with new ones. The K-77-m's like the EV t-35A's can suffer from magnet slippage, which changes the gaps that the diaphram coils have to travel thru, resulting in abnormal sounding tweeter.

[meagain]

These guys eh? http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Diaphragm-Klipsch-K-77-EV-T-35-Tweeter-8-Ohm-Pair_W0QQitemZ110080967265QQihZ001QQcategoryZ14993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Speakerfritz - I admit to having no real clue as to how these parts work inside. Or where they even are. Would what you posted be easily gotten to for inspection? And, if something was either grossly amiss with them or amiss as in your example - would it be blatantly visible? And, would these issues create this piercyness? These 1981 khorns are the only ones here that I have this issue with. LaScalas are a bit irritating, but not like this. Cornwalls are great. This is of course assuming my issue is in the tweeters and not upper area of the mid.

[Guest " "]

It would be hard to detect problems with diaphrams and magnet alignment thru a visual inspection that did not involve dis-assembly.

The key here is that you said they were both k-77-m's. The magnet structures on these are prone to slipping and mis-alignment.

All versions of the k-77 square or round, are prone to diaprham problems.

Best bet would be to send Bob and email, and get his input.

One thing put's you one step ahead of the game, you already have a set of Dean xovers that you like, and it sounds like your on the right path of using them thru the rpocess of elimination if needed.

[meagain]

Well, I meant detecting problems assuming I took them apart. I've not read about this magnet slipping issue before. My problem is, I've no clue which of the 2 speakers has screwed up tweeters. Or IF they are screwed up at all. But clearly one will make your brain explode and the other doesn't. Should I assume the piercy tweeters are good and the soft ones bad? LOL Maybe I should switch them - then I'd be happy. What also sucks about the ak-3 being soldered, is that I can't swap x-overs. Booo.

[Guest " "]

You have to get to slide number 8 on the below link before you can examine the gap's in the k-77-m tweeter.

The below also covers diaphram replacement. Be advised, it requires soldering wires a little thicker than human hair. Also, if you attempt to dismantle to inspect, you will likely break the existing leads that connect the coil to the terminals. That's why it's better to inspect the gaps as part of the replacement process.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bonaz/Klipsch/K77-diaphram/K77-diaphram.htm

You should apply possible process of elimination, before ruling the undesirable tweeters have diaphram or gap issues. For example, if you can't swap xovers, can you swap drivers?

[meagain]

I can swap the drivers if the drivers don't include the soldered cord area. I think looking at the pics in your link, I'll try a less aggressive trouble shooting mode first. I'm going to start with pink/white noise tests from my Avia disc.