All Klipsch except...

[robbyrockets]

I just purchased the following for my home theater,

2 RF-63's

1 RC-64

2 RS-62's

As you'll notice the only thing missing is a sub, the RT-12d sub seemed like a perfect match, until I saw the price, I read some rather impressive reviews on the HSU VTF-3 with HO Turbocharger.

Does anyone here have any experience with the HSU brand, every review I've read has them rated at the top based on the level of preformance one gets for the money spent.

I could get 2 of the HSU for the price of one RT-12d, feel free to express any opinions that you may have concerning these subs.

Thank you

[DrWho]

I'm not a fan of the "turbocharger" as it introduces all sorts of distortions that are due to bending the port.

I

believe the reason the RT-12d is so expensive is because of the ARC

features it comes with - which btw can be used with other subwoofers

too (way cool). You've also got the passive radiators which are going

to be way more linear than even the best of ported systems. So though

you're not achieving much in terms of max output, you're vastly

improving the sound quality by knocking out a lot of distortion.

I've

not heard many of the HSU subs, but that's mostly because I'm not a fan

of their design approach. I would probably sooner go with SVS than HSU,

but I believe I've read from those with more experience that there are

a few price points where HSU outperforms.

If I were to purcase

new, I would probably just stick with the Klipsch subwoofers simply

because they were voiced to match the rest of their speakers. Though, I

would never purchase subs new because there is so much more bang for

the buck when going DIY.

[robbyrockets]

Will the RT-12d be enough in a room 13 ft. wide by 30 feet long ?

I know that the dimensions seem ridiculous, but its what I had to work with, its basically a light controlled cave.

My present setup is Mirage OM6's all the way around with there own 10' sub, and though the bass is excellent I want more depth.

Thanks

[DrWho]

What's the loudest you want to be able to listen and how far back do you sit? 3000 cubic feet is probably a bit on the large size. That's more like THX Ultra2 territory... [] (bummer that costs way more - I wanna say around $3500 for the two subs and amp).

[TheEAR]

I'm not a fan of the "turbocharger" as it introduces all sorts of distortions that are due to bending the port.

I believe the reason the RT-12d is so expensive is because of the ARC features it comes with - which btw can be used with other subwoofers too (way cool). You've also got the passive radiators which are going to be way more linear than even the best of ported systems. So though you're not achieving much in terms of max output, you're vastly improving the sound quality by knocking out a lot of distortion.

I've not heard many of the HSU subs, but that's mostly because I'm not a fan of their design approach. I would probably sooner go with SVS than HSU, but I believe I've read from those with more experience that there are a few price points where HSU outperforms.

If I were to purcase new, I would probably just stick with the Klipsch subwoofers simply because they were voiced to match the rest of their speakers. Though, I would never purchase subs new because there is so much more bang for the buck when going DIY.

As you know the so called Turbocharger is nothing other than lower tuning using longer ports. The distortions caused by the bends cannot be heard,not audible. The SQ of the HO Turbo is better than many subs I will not even name.

PR's are more linear compared with the classic tube/slot port,yes agreed.

HSU in fact is very close to SVS in terms of sound quality,and has a slight edge when comparing price to price.What turns people off is the plain looking drivers.

The voicing is a non issue when matching a sub with the other speakers,as below 80Hz phase,level and proper placement would be more of an issue.

DIY...tell me about it...[]

As for true depth the only Klipsch subs that I would call capable down very low are the THX subs and matching amp.

[robbyrockets]

Hard to say how loud in decibles, the present sub is placed just behind the seating area and blends wonderfully, and plays loud enough, its more about depth and impact then volume.

The present sub goes down to about 28 realistically, will the RT-12d hit the lows one encounters in The Haunting ?

The Mirage is great to a point but seems to lose alittle steam when that movie hits its lowest lows.

Again, my question is more about depth, impact and blending in then volume.

I want to place the sub in the front corner and have it dissapear as the present setup does.

Ive never owned Klipsch, I based my purchase on how they sounded with a surround music disc.

It sounded great, but music and movies are a whole different story in some cases.

Thanks

[DrWho]

The distortions caused by the bends cannot be heard,not audible.

I gotta disagree with that. If it weren't audible, then every sub engineer would be going with bent ports. The losses due to port length restrictions are huge. Bending a port to tune lower for the same mouth size is not a free lunch (and not that much better than going with a smaller mouth port so that it can be shorter and fit in the cabinet - of course I'm sure there are always exceptions to the rule).

The voicing is a non issue when matching a sub with the other speakers,as below 80Hz phase,level and proper placement would be more of an issue.

Most every sub on the market doesn't have a flat frequency response - usually intentional because it's part of the voicing. Where they put this bump in the response is going to depend on what they feel their target audience is going to want. For instance, Klipsch concentrates on 30Hz and above because that's where most music takes place. I believe they then implement an extended shelf response to achieve the lower 20's marketing goals, but also to keep the output sane once room gain is factored in. Other designers (like SVS) try to extend their response out flat, which means you're gonna have a gradual rise in output as you go down in frequency. This kind of an approach is also going to increase the frequency modulation distortion in the higher bands of the subs response - something that PWK always hated.

You've also got the power response, which I feel is one of the most important parts of the design. Basically its a measure of how well the unit tracks dynamics. The power response is pretty much proportional to efficiency, and from Hoffman's Iron Law we can see that a bottom feeder sub is going to be less efficient. It's no surprise that these subs tend to be a bit sluggish when playing intense source material (especially percussion).

Nevertheless, that's not to discount the importance of output and extension. A system that doesn't go loud enough or low enough is going to be annoying as heck. But that is something that needs to be determined ahead of time, before trying to figure out which model subwoofer is the best.

[Jay481985]

I just purchased the following for my home theater,

2 RF-63's

1 RC-64

2 RS-62's

As you'll notice the only thing missing is a sub, the RT-12d sub seemed like a perfect match, until I saw the price, I read some rather impressive reviews on the HSU VTF-3 with HO Turbocharger.

Does anyone here have any experience with the HSU brand, every review I've read has them rated at the top based on the level of preformance one gets for the money spent.

I could get 2 of the HSU for the price of one RT-12d, feel free to express any opinions that you may have concerning these subs.

Thank you

you pay for the size as well, its a very small unit.

one thing to note, pr drop quicker than ported. 30 db past tune to 24 db. but that point is mute due to the tuning points most likely being different

[TheEAR]

Dr WHo,

You should listen and A/B the Klipsch RT12d with the HSU VTF3 HO/Turbo if there is a loss it is a non issue,as even for music the HO/Turbo outclasses many sealed and subs using PR's! In SQ

To me the best sounding subs are either IB or very capable and large sealed(like the one I have built).

[DrWho]

one thing to note, pr drop quicker than ported. 30 db past tune to 24 db. but that point is mute due to the tuning points most likely being different

That is not always true. The Q of a passive radiator is something that is chosen by the engineer - it's a degree of freedom you don't have when going with a port.

[DrWho]

You should listen and A/B the Klipsch RT12d with the HSU VTF3 HO/Turbo if there is a loss it is a non issue,as even for music the HO/Turbo outclasses many sealed and subs using PR's! In SQ

I would love to AB the two, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

For what it's worth, I might also recommend the RSW-15, which used should probably sell for cheaper than the HSU...