bombastic Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hello, I'm running a pair of bi-wired RF-7s (bought a few months ago) with an Adcom GFA-5800 (power-amp); Adcom GFP 555-II (pre-amp) and a YAMAHA CDx 530 (average single tray CD Player from the 90's). On a sidebar, I love my used GFA-5800; it cranks out beautiful watts for hours without ever breaking a sweat. This setup is in my basement, picture essentially 600sqft of open space with the Rf-7s tucked waist-high into the frame of the wall - actually that part of the wall contours the speakers so it looks like they're placed into towers. Now the portholes, at the back of the speakers, are not exposed, how does that affect their ability to reproduce mid-bass sound? I suppose, I could always take one or both speakers out and experiment that way but given their weight etc, I prefer, and hope, to have a discussion on this first, if possible. Maybe it's my perception or because there's so much air to move, but thought the Audio overall sounds fabulous, it could benefit from a boost in the midbass. Have I crippled my Rf-7 by placing them in the wall? Should I go out and experiment with an equalizer? What else might I do? Thanks again P.S. I do have a Paradigm sub hooked up as well (1000W, 10-inch bottom driver, from the direct output of my pre-amp); though it does color the low frquency response, it seems best as just shaking the house's foundation (which is was it is meant to do). P.P.S. This is not part of a home theater system. I'm using this 2-channel audio system purely for music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterxela Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Definetly take them out of the wall. Does your adcom gfp not have a bass boost? I personally like a couple db boost down low, but I do it through my receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombastic Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 Yea the bass boost on the GFP is essentially set to max; well I guess I'm going to have to test out the speakers in/out of the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Interesting that you perceive a lack of mid-bass by putting the speakers in the wall. I would have actually expected more. Could you provide some pictures or sketches of what you're trying to do? Flushmounting speakers has some positive benefits, but you'll need to do it without blocking off the ports. Considering the size of the RF-7, I would imagine that this wouldn't be very feasible without surgery on the cabinets [] I also would not recommend trying to use an equalizer to fix the problem. Things will probably sound better if you fix the problem with the bass where the problem is instead of trying to put a band-aid over it. On their own, the RF-7's should have plenty of bass (in fact, I wouldn't doubt if they smoked your paradigm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombastic Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 Affirmative on the band-aid comment; Interesting, okay DrWho.... I'm having trouble uploading photos using the "options" tab in this forum so I'll send them via email. I could certainly make an appropriate opening to let the speakers breathe if that makes sense.... The ports are not blocked per se, they just blow into an enclosed cavity, is that okay? Also the cavity for the right channel is much smaller than the one for the left.. Incidently, the sub may also be suffering from claustrophobia and I may need to cut open a channel outlet for the two passive side driver. The Rf-7 do eclipse the paradigm except when it comes to the low frequencies rumble - the paradigm is ridiculous for that (tough to beat 1000W).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombastic Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 Sorry folks, can't seem to be able to post pics here...can anyone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterxela Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 host them on photobucket.com then its impossible to mess-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombastic Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 Thanks masterxela, you're right that's a pretty neat site. But meanwhile, I found something out: The portholes are designed for the backstaging of the audio response - a way to differentiate any distances between original sources of the overall recording. So for example, listening to a concert recording, one might be able to discern the source of say the flute in relation to the horns as they were organized on stage. Surround sound might perform this through DSP but with 2-channels, this is performed "passively" by making use of the waves reverbating from the side and the back of the speakers (that's why we always place them 2 ft from the back etc). Placing them in the wall, takes away all that. But the frequency response is unaffected (layering is intact) and so, now, I must decide whether or not I can live with that limitation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Sorry folks, can't seem to be able to post pics here...can anyone help? Per DrWhoklipsch pics - how to.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 ... The portholes are designed for the backstaging of the audio response - a way to differentiate any distances between original sources of the overall recording. So for example, listening to a concert recording, one might be able to discern the source of say the flute in relation to the horns as they were organized on stage. Surround sound might perform this through DSP but with 2-channels, this is performed "passively" by making use of the waves reverbating from the side and the back of the speakers (that's why we always place them 2 ft from the back etc). Placing them in the wall, takes away all that. But the frequency response is unaffected (layering is intact) and so, now, I must decide whether or not I can live with that limitation... Nope. This is not the purpose nor function of a port! Beyond that, it is hard to know just what exactly is happening here (without measurements or pictures). The small alcove will function as a 'coupled space' with both complex frequency and time issues. Plus you have additional diffractive issues from the corners and there is no telling how the superposition of the real and virtual sources are behaving. Soffit mounting of a speaker is indeed possible, but the method of correctly achieving this is not trivial. The best description of an acceptable process is found on/in the Genelec website's docs. And I can't help but also segue into the MANY problems with the VAST majority of 'in wall' speakers which sacrifice just about everything favorable for convenience. Also, a port firing into an isolated cavity can effectively change the tuning, but we need more info. (And anyone wondering to what I refer is welcome to PM me and we can talk offline). To post pictures you must first have the pics in a format that is recognized by the forum. JPEG snd PNG are perhaps the most common. When posting, you go to Options=>Add/Update and then you navigate to the pict file and select it. Then select Save and wait for it to be attached and then either submit the post or return to further edit the documant. I will try to get a few attachments to illustrate the screens. Now you should Really be confused... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 In most cases, the output of ports in a ported system is the deeper bass with the output directly from the drivers the mid and upper bass. In any case, segregating the port outputs as you have done will definitely interfere with the sound of the speaker. With RF-7s you'll lose LOTS of deep bass. Did you post above that you have the bass turned way up on your preamp? All that does is make the problem of bass balance worse buy superimposing the bad bass response in your setup with the lopsided response of the boosted bass from your preamp. Try pulling the speakers out of their current location and listen to them in a more normal position. Turn off the bass boost for this test. Listen to the resulting sound. That's what RF-7s SHOULD sound like give or take a bit for your room acoustics. BTW, sounds like you've also limited the performance of your sub in a similar manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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