cjr888

Black Eyed Dog, Nick Drake. Specifically the version on Time of No Reply. Seems that much more raw. The most miserable song I know of, and absolutely beautiful in its purity. You hear the song, you hear how Nick sings it, how he hits the guitar, and all you are left with in your room is despair, somehow beautiful despair, probably because it seems so pure. The musical equivalent of someone coming to you having a complete breakdown, where every word, every tone of their voice, and every little action seems to truly be coming from the deepest part of themselves. If Goodbye Cruel World from The Wall is the sort of cinematic, broadway version of despair, Black Eyed Dog would be finding yourself at your absolute lowest point, lower than you even knew you could go, half giving up hope, and half crying out for help. Probably the most powerful two minutes of recorded music I know of. I will second the mentions of Cash doing hurt. He was meant to do that song -- it simply carries emotion in the same manner as Black Eyed Dog.

I searched the forums and didn't find any easy to locate references, so if this has been covered already, just direct me to a thread.... My selfish curiosity is towards Cornwalls, but figured I'd ask the question for any/all models of Klipsch to hopefully extend the discussion if others are curious or interested. Are there any general guidelines for proper ear level for Cornwalls (or other speakers)? Tweeter level? Lower? Higher? I assume this would also vary depending on the distance between you and the speaker, but I'm not 100% there either. I ask partly because I have couches that are a bit higher than the norm, and also because I'm curious if anyone has raised their speakers more than an inch or two to compensate (this I assume is not suggested because of the port and speaker design though). Any comments on the Cornwall or other speakers, whether its actual measurements or rough guidelines that have been suggested by Klipsch?

New Jersey Audio Society - I believe they meet about once a month. http://www.stereotimes.com/njaudio.shtm There's also a NY Based group organized out of audiocircle.com. A number of people who attend gatherings are from the other side of the river though. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewforum.php?f=62 NJ Audio Society is membership based. NY Audio Rave is more social with monthly listening sessions at people's houses and apartments... Not a member of NJAS and haven't made the time to attend any of the NY meetings, but talk to a number of the folks online. Good friendly group of people.

---------------- im in the market for my first hi-fi system and have been reccomended fortes due to my music tastes (mostly rock) and ive been trying to find a good amp to go with them. ive been looking for some alternatives to vintage amps and it seems like this might be a good choice. have any of you guys heard this amp? ---------------- On the comments about not wanting a SET for your first amplifier, I'd disagree -- assuming you can get a trial in your own room and ensure it would be OK, I couldn't recommend anything better than trying a SET first -- probably would have saved me from swapping god knows how many amplifiers in and our before I tried SET. I'll leave it at that, but if you have that large of a room, you might consider some extra power (though it still could be SET), but certainly don't discount the philosophy due to your listening taste. My two cents. Some options from different philosophies, but I will mention Hybrid. First, the Van Alstine recommendation was a good one. Definitely check them out. Second, you're in Boston, correct? You might want to touch base with the folks in the Boston Audio Society (http://bostonaudiosociety.org/) -- could probably find owners of interesting equipment that could provide demos for you. Regarding integrateds, and hybrid integrateds, you might want to check out the JLTi, its basically a gainClone with a tube from end. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~joeras/ One amplifier if you are interested only in current production vs. vintage that might fit your bill based on listening tastes and wanting a bit more power would be the Manley Stingray. This sounds like it might fit your bill. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0500/stingray.htm http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/stingray99.html Another that comes to mind is the MESA Baron (used for price range) or MESA Tigris Integrated. You can tweak the sound to your liking probably much, much more than you'd even want to... http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/For_Audiophiles/for_audiophiles.htm Another thought is going SS, and getting yourself a tube pre. For the amplifier part, I'm thinking of any of the Monarchy Audio amplifiers http://www.monarchyaudio.com/ Next one is the Dodd Audio amplifiers. I've heard nothing but good things on these, and he will customize to your liking. http://www.gr-research.com/dodd_amp.htm Last thought (I swear), is going with any of the TriPath based amplifiers, whether you go for the little Powerwave 20w unit meant for computers that goes for $90 (not joking here) with a cheap tube preamplifier, or look towards the Bel Canto's of the world.

---------------- On 3/24/2004 11:28:33 AM Tozco wrote: The soundstage from K-horns on the long wall (recommended) of a 23x14x8 room is wide, tall and larger than life. I have many rigs and this is the only one that floats the voices out in the center of the room. ---------------- My room is about 24x14 or so -- need to measure again though. Was initially forced to the shortwall due to room layout, but its sounding more and more like once I get the room back, that I absolutely must try long wall placement. Guess its time to buy some longer speaker cables. With the Cornwalls and the 2A3, outside of the 2A3's natural attributes, what you speak of above was what initially got me excited about the CWs. I had always been looking for a setup in which the soundstage was up close and personal, with big dynamic images. That combined with a good amp, and in my preference, the little SETs, lets the music almost wash over you, and you have a female vocalist putting a spell on you. For others, whether the sound is detailed, rounded, or otherwise, they prefer the laid-back, distant sound -- as if the music stays in one place. I guess the way I think of it is music that projects.. Don't know how else to describe it. I will have to try the longwall placement, and somewhat close to the corners, but everytime I think about speakers 18-20 feet apart, with myself 12-13 feet from center, and further to each speaker, I can't fathom how one maintains a center image. Just previous assumptions and biases I guess. I guess I'll have to try it -- I was surprised once, the first time I heard the CW/2A3 combination in my room, it sure would be nice to be surprised yet again. Time to find some temporary, cheap, and very long speaker cables to give the experiment a shot. I actually had read the comments about Corn(er)Wall, and placement being fine in either situation after I had acquired them some time ago. When I read that, I actually was annoyed to hear that they could be used in either situation. Why? Because it gives me one more thing to try, swap, and move in audio -- I'm afflicted enough as is.

Was trying to conceive of even where first reflections would occur with corner placement. I need to check the dispersion characteristics of the Cornwall and KHorn compared to a 90 degree corner angle. Also if truly pointed directly out from the corner, I have to wonder if a first reflection point exists. One thought I had was that you'd think of first reflection points somewhat backwards -- since you're aiming inward more than usual, you mark the first reflection point for the right speaker on the left wall, and vice versa. Just as a random example, I was wondering if something like MiniTraps < http://www.realtraps.com/mini_stands.htm > placed in the corners, above a corner horn would be of detriment or benefit. I think this might be a sensitive item -- not wanting to affect horn loading too much, but at the same time not ignoring the issues with room interaction regardless of speaker. But for example, I could see using bass traps in corners as possibly counterproductive, but again, I'm really not sure... What I will most likely be considering is products like the RoomPak from EightNerve < http://www.eighthnerve.com/response.html >. I spend a lot of time at AudioCircle and know plenty of people that have used their products to great effect. The thing I like is their philosophy < http://www.eighthnerve.com/methodology.html >, which is pretty much to combine reflection with dampening and diffusion vs. just excessive dampening. From my assumptions, with the Klipsch's, this makes sense to me. I'll probably end up emailing them about cornerhorns to get their opinion on my questions and send off a room diagram... Any useful information of thoughts I receive I'll post here. Not having an assembled system lets your mind think of too many options to play with it when you can get it setup again....

Appreciate the response and look forward to other's comments. Regarding 'sounds outside of speaker boundaries', the way I see this, and how I perceive it is that with typical speakers, if given plenty of breathing room, the soundstage resembles something like a baseball field. Think of yourself at home plate, with your speakers at 1st and 3rd base, or possibly between 3rd/2nd and 2nd/3rd. Recordings vary -- prominent part of center image (ie. vocals) come from somewhere between 2nd base (a bit behind the speaker plane), or occasionally creep towards the pitcher's mound. Again, my experiences may be clouded by room interactions, even minor ones, whether in good rooms or bad rooms, but I think of the soundstage boundaries as if you were looking down the line at 3rd base and 1st base to the end of the outfield. With the back of the soundstage appearing as an arc, and with sounds coming from outside of the speaker boundaries, but when I say that, I mean in regards to images with depth -- images that would be somewhere in the outfield....not ones that are outside the speaker boundaries but along the front speaker plane, which I usually attribute to phase issues in recording, typically on purpose. An example of this would be some of the QSound recordings, like Waters, with the dog barking almost at your side.... A lot of popular, tuned for radio recordings either have everything flat and way upfront, or with everything coming from dead center... Thinking more about live audience recordings, close miked, etc to capture the spatial stuff as much as possible... I have to think of some tracks that can be used as concrete examples, where say you have a vocalist up front, a guitarist or piano spaced back and to the side a bit, and then say a large spread out chorus that appears across the back of your room...

I have read all the threads on damping the Cornwalls, whether its drivers, throats, or the cabinets itself -- apologize if this has been covered 100 times in the past. I have three kits of damping material that seems rather impressive in its properties that might be of good use inside my Cornwalls in addition to inside components. Its called Cromolin VC Damping, and no longer made. My first thoughts were for the back panel as an alternative to replacing it. 1) Those that have built and modified the Cornwalls, have you found it of benefit or detriment to treat just the back wall vs. treating the entire cabinet? Have minor concerns that partial treatment will change design parameters.. 2) Most damping and vibration control I believe doesn't go the entire way, so you end up 'tuning', but more than anything you are just shifting the exciteable/resonant frequencies. For example, instead of eliminating, you are modifying. I have posted links below regarding the material, whose properties are rather impressive. I am tempted to use it on the drivers/throats themselves, but curious if it might be negative to vastly reduce vibration or not. Essentially if some of that resonance might be part of design and make the sound lifeless. On the other hand, other's may feel that the speakers provide more truth after modification and provide more life. Links are below and any thoughts are appreciated. http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/rise44.htm http://hellosimplymusic.com/cvc-advanced-vibration.jpg http://hellosimplymusic.com/cvc-don-wadia-moses.jpg http://hellosimplymusic.com/cvc-vibration-graphs.jpg

Soundstage -- As mentioined in previous post, I am used to traditional speakers, and placement where speakers are pulled out far from boundaries, and have a soundstage forming behind the speakers in the shape of a shell -- narrow part of shell being the two speakers, with the soundstage fanning out behind the speakers in a curved shape, with the widest portion the farthest back. This gives the impression that sounds are coming from outside the two speakers (but w/depth). With true corner placement, and a well-recorded album with solid placement and depth (say a good classical piece), do you maintain the illusion that the soundstage is wider than the speakers? Can you get past the fact that your side walls exist? (I'm not talking about phase tricks in regards to width) Outside of reflections, I think having speakers and walls close by does mess with the illusion (psychology perspective, not technical perspective) as you know the walls are there. It makes more sense for the brain to have a performer in your livingroom, but not to have a bass player just on the other side of the wall....as if the rest of the band hates him. :-) Curious for impressions of those who have this setup, whether from technical or layman/general impression perspective.

Hello, I've been reading for forums for the past year or so, but have not been an active participant, so be gentle. I have a handful of questions towards KHorns and Cornwalls that I'll open up seperately. Background - I have a pair of Cornwalls, but system is currently disassembled while we redo the livingroom ceiling. Previously had been using a heavily modified SACD-1000 -> Audio Consulting Silver Rock Silver-Wired Transformer based Volume Control -> 2A3 Amp -> Cornwalls. When the system is back up, it will be the same source + two other sources -- (1) PC w/modified RME DIGI96/8 pro audio card, and (2) Same Card -> Scott Nixon TubeDAC w/Cryo 1960 Philips Miniwatt -> AudioZone Transformer Based Volume Control -> Peter Daniel's GainClone -> Cornwalls. Very likely may switch to a pair of 300b monoblocks from a local builder though. Room is approximately 24x14, give or take. Windows and some doors limit some placement on longwall. Previously was using them on shortwall, pulled out from the front wall a few feet. Planning to try long wall when the room is in order again. Enough of background, and on to the first question: I'm used to speaker placement theory and room treatment theory for the average speaker out there, and not for horns and especially corner horns. Used to hearing that corners are bad, and from a treatment perspective, how best to treat corners, seams, and first reflections. Then comes the KHorns where they are supposed to be in corners, and the Cornwalls which have this as an option, and are meant to be closer to the two walls in the corner. Essentially the opposite of what I know. Does it defeat speaker placement/design parameters to treat the wall seams and corners then if they are supposed to be there? My best guess is that its positive to use some minor defraction, but not absorption. Thoughts? First Reflection Points -- Used to speakers being pulled out several feet, and then being 3-4 feet from sidewalls, with easy identification of first reflections. With speakers in the corner, and a more defined radiation pattern, if the speakers are in the corner, _is_ there a first reflection point on the sidewalls? Or is the goal to have the radiation pattern 'fit' w/corner placement? If this has been covered in other threads, please direct me. Thanks.