Deang
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I also have a very strict program which I adhere to.
No pain, no pain.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmpf>s> - Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's
SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research elec. crossover - MIT/Monsters
f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 05-01-2002 at 08:37 PM
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The Reference Line is above the Synergy Line (SB or SF)
The RB5 sounds bigger than most people realize until they get it in a room, get it on some decent stands (about $100), and back them in a little - close to the walls, to bring up the bass.
One of the best values in Audio.
http://www.audio-deas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/klipsch-rb5.html
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmp - f>s>- Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's -
SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research electronic crossover - MIT/Monsters
f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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I do not believe Sony made the 9000es
I believe it was made by Elves living in the Black Forest
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmp,f>s>- Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's -
SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research electronic crossover - MIT/Monsters
f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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I wrote this review last week and posted it on the Asylum.
AUDIO PHILOSOPHY:
I do not subscribe to the idea that just because something is 'great' to one person -- that it will be 'great' to all people. Audio is completely subjective in form. I have heard many a 'great' thing that did not involve me on an emotional level. There are simply too many variables to account for in order to make any real definitive statements about any piece of gear. We can talk about build quality, parts employed, and the wonderful design of the circuits -- but until we drop that piece of equipment into our system and into our room -- we really don't know the true value of the piece. It is true that each individual piece has it's own sonic signature, and it is good to know this -- but what we really want to know is this: how does that signature integrate with the whole. Simply put -- I believe in component matching, finding the proper balance between the parts in order to complete the "perfect" whole.
BACKROUND INFORMATION:
I believe most of us here are familiar with the wonderful 'homogenized' sound of the Sony decks of the 80's and 90's. I had one of the 3rd generation Laserdisc/CD players running with some Magnepan 1.5QR's and Luxman equipment in the middle 80's. It was all I could afford, and with some music it could sound quite satisfying. Most of time however, it left me aching for an upgrade. I have never cared for any of the Sony decks I have heard in the past -- even ES. I tried several times, but always found the Philips based machines to always sound more refined in my systems.
I gross $62,000 a year. I have 4 kids living with me, a huge mortgage, a car payment, and a wife who went part time to home school the kids because private school tuition was bankrupting us. I no longer have the luxury of disposable income. I have just completed upgrading my complete system, and this latest incarnation will have to do for some time to come. The only piece I had not upgraded was my Anthem CD-1 -- which I was still very happy with. To upgrade that piece would necessitate selling it off -- which I did not relish doing.
Everything I considered was beyond the price point I was comfortable moving to. Rega (jupiter), Arcam, Cary, etc. -- just too much money. I had spent $1700 on the Anthem back in '96 -- and that left my stomach upset for 2 days. Not because I didn't like it, but because when you have kids and a wife you love -- you know this money should probably go towards things to benefit them as well. My wife does not *****. She takes all this in stride. She thought I was nuts, but took it like a trooper. No, my problem is always with my own demons. So, how do I get better than the Anthem for around a $1000. I figured almost five years had past since I bought the Anthem, and that advances in this period of time might net me better sound for substantially less money. I decided it might not be possible -- but started lurking here at the Hi-Rez Highway.
I had pretty much decided I would give up a little quality on Redbook playback (regular CD) to get SACD into my system. I did not go with DVD-A primarily because I wanted a well built machine, and I did not believe anyone except Sony was building anything to a standard that I could appreciate. The Denon DVD/CD/DVD-A looks nice, and has a little heft -- but it's not like ES. I also didn't care for multi-channel, and didn't like the fold down or 'dumb down' concept for 2 channel.
My main issue with mult-channel is money. If I had the money I would love to go full blown multi-channel. However, given a choice between spending $2200 on one set of speakers -- or $2200 on 6 sets of speakers. Well, I think you see my point. The same goes with the processor. To get one that is made and sounds to a standard I can accept, would necessitate a 2nd mortgage. I did not need multi-channel playback capability, and therefore saw no point in paying for it.
Build quality aside -- I also felt that whether to go DVD-A or SACD was also going to be dependent on musical tastes. SACD is catering mostly to those who like Classical & Jazz. The bigger recording labels don't appear to be doing much of anything with SACD in the Rock/Pop area -- with the exception of Sony Music. Most SACD releases are coming from the smaller labels. DVD-Audio does have sufficient choices in the Classical & Jazz department -- but also has much more in the Pop/Rock area, and obviously appears to have more support from the bigger labels. In spite of this, I decided to give up some Rock/Pop choices in order to get the better built machine. Again, I also felt SACD was the better standard for two channel playback.
At any rate -- I believe both formats will survive, and don't see it so much as a format war, as two technologies that are slicing into different parts of the market. I see SACD becoming the de-facto standard for the high-end, and DVD-A catering more to those in the mass market -- who have grown comfortable with the term 'DVD'. IMHO.
ANCILLARY EQUIPMENT:
I use the Cary AE-25 Super Amp with the oil filled caps upgrade, NOS East German Sieman EL-34's, Amperex 6922 PQ's in the driver stage, and GE 6CG7's as the current source.
The preamp is the Sonic Frontiers Line 1 with the stock Sovtek 6922's. Amperex Orange Globes are on the way -- but for this review, it's the Sovteks.
The Speakers are the Klipsch Reference RF7's. Like all my speakers I have ever owned -- they are two ways. The RF7 employs two anodized 10" drivers and a tractrix horn loaded titanium dome. The crossover is 2.2Khz. The sonic signature is not the same as the Klipsch Heritage or Legend speakers -- which I do not care for. I wanted the resolution of a Magnepan and the dynamics of a horn. The RF7 does both admirably. Certainly not as fast as the Maggies or the with the extreme dynamics of an exponential horn loaded system -- but enough of both to bring it to the middle, producing a very satisfying sonic experience. For more info, see the recent issue of Sound & Vision for a review. You can also see the review of the RB5 bookshelf here:
http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/klipsch-rb5.html
This will at give you an idea of the sonic signature for the Klipsch Reference line. Included in the review are some nifty charts plotting both frequency response and impedance curves.
Klipsch LF-10 Subwoofer: Klipsch was plagued with production problems trying to get this thing out on the market. Many units were sent out that had air leaks around the amp plate or one of the passive radiators. This resulted in spyder slap and/or the amp overheating and shutting down. However, just as many were sent out that had no problems. I have one of those. It's not a Carver Sunfire -- but does well in my small room. I have just sold it and am waiting on a SVS 20-39PCi. For this review -- no sub was used.
REVIEW PART I: REDBOOK PLAYBACK
The more you spend the more you get. However, I also believe in the Law of Diminishing Returns. When I read that a $1200 unit does not sound as good as a $3000 unit -- I understand. When I also read that 'it comes close', I understand that it is usually much less than a stone's throw away. If I can get within 95% of the mark for half the money -- I'm elated.
I do not have a Redbook playback system employing the 'Hyper Extreme Super Power DAC' in line with the 'Maxibit Jitter Killer III' -- the only thing I have to compare the 9000es to is my Anthem CD-1 and my Marantz DV-7010 DVD combo player ($799).
The Anthem had detail in spades. Nice shimmer on the upper treble and a good full-bodied bass. The unit was not well received by The Absolute Sound when it was reviewed. They felt it had too much bass, poor rhythm, and was too laid back. I on the other hand -- always felt it totally rocked. It didn't have the 'haze' I heard on the many other players I listened too, and it really did a good job of taking off the digital edge. It worked well with my all solid-state gear, creating a good soundstage with some decent depth and warmth. There was always a little space between the instruments, and the background was reasonably dark. The only complaint I ever had was with the Sony changer it employed -- which always sounded like it was loading torpedoes.
I did not want to sell this unit. Before I made the decision to sell it -- I spent almost a week comparing the Redbook playback to my much newer Marantz. The Marantz had a little touch of that 'haze' or 'filmy' quality, but it really had a nice extended top end with very little splash. The bass was extremely tight as compared to the Anthem, and it certainly had a bit of that toe tapping quality. The downside was that I didn't feel it put any space between the instruments. It was certainly open sounding, but it just didn't produce that quality of putting things in their place. The music was just...there. I even caught myself trying to move my chair back a little -- like I needed to give it some room to do it's thing. I knew that part of this experiment involved my ears adjusting to the sound. It did get better towards the end of the week -- and I decided that it was certainly much better than units I had heard previously between the $300 - $500 price points.
In this shoot off the Anthem won -- but not by leaps and bounds. They just did things differently. The only thing that really bothered me about the Marantz was the digital haze. There wasn't much, but it was there nonetheless -- always calling attention to itself. However, it was SACD I was after, and I reasoned that with the kind of music I listen to -- I could live with it if need be. If you are wondering why I was so concerned about the Redbook capability of the Marantz -- it is because I was simply expecting the Sony to sound horrid, and I wanted a fallback position.
UPS arrived at my doorstep with the unit yesterday. The unit came double boxed from J&R Music World for $929 shipped. It was cold and rainy yesterday here in Ohio -- and when I opened the boxes, the Sony was very cold to the touch. I decided to let her sit for about a 1/2 hour so that any moisture accumulating because of the temperature change would have time to evaporate.
I waited 2 minutes, unwrapped it, picked it up, grunted, put it in the rack, grunted again, ran my wires, and fired her up. I waited a few minutes, just admiring it. It's really a gorgeous piece of equipment.
I had heard about the lack of ergonomics with the buttons on the front panel. I guess some have trouble with them. It took me about 10 seconds to figure them out. The buttons are great. What else can I say? Very nifty little soft touch devices. For those that have difficulty with them, I can only think they have never used an old fashioned cassette deck. The buttons are set up quite similiarly.
I pushed the button for the drawer. It slid out, smooth as a baby's butt. It wasn't plastic. It was aluminum. It was quiet. It was cool. I reached out and took hold of the tray. I moved it around a little. Sure, a little play. Actually less than my Anthem had. A little play does not mean loose. A little play is a good thing. The last thing I want is the drawer hosing up with age, if a little dust accumulates in the mechanism, or if the lubricant runs dry.
I started with Fuel's first release. It's a good Redbook recording. I pushed the button again (right there), the drawer pulled back in. Again, very quiet compared to what I am used to. I am already mentally preparing myself and bracing for disappointment. It is after all -- a Sony. I head to my chair thinking, "as long as it sounds as least as good as the Marantz -- it'll be O.K.
I pick up the remotes for both my SF Line 1 and 9000es. I sit. I press play. Nothing happens. I stare at my remote like a well-trained audiophile. I am an expert -- just ask my wife. The Sony is a lemon. What a POS. My non-audiophile wife asks me if I put batteries in the remote. I yell "yes" and start looking for the batteries. I put them in the remote and sit back in my chair. I hit play.
Music.
Pretty good sounding music.
Not as warm as the Anthem.
But not sterile either -- not by a long shot.
It's a rich, 'all there' kind of sound, but a little on the 'cool' side of neutral -- just as I had read in another review. I should mention here that I have what I refer to as 'sissy' ears. I like clarity -- but not the associated 'brightness' that sometimes comes with it. I need to state here, that in my system -- the Sony is not 'bright'. There is clarity without 'edge' or undue forwardness. This is not what I expected.
I then become aware that there is no 'haze' or 'filmy' quality. The sound is simply clear and actually better than the Anthem in this regard. I am really surprised by this and my hopes begin to climb.
In spite of being so clean, the treble is a little splashy on top. Maybe a touch more than the Marantz. The Sony does not have the nice shimmer on the cymbals like the Anthem did. The bass is a little lean also. Tight as hell -- but not room filling like the Anthem. More definition in the bass than both the Anthem and the Marantz. I could hear individual notes much better. At this point, I begin to relax a little. I pick up the remote to the SF (preamp) and decide to listen to the rest of the opening cut, and then I will put the juice to 'Jesus or Gun'.
The song ends and I skip to the song 'Jesus or Gun'. This is a great grind it out kind of song with good drumming and wailing guitars. I decide to dump everything the little triode amp can muster into this song -- the entire massive 15 watts worth.
I'm buying another SPL meter tonight. I lent my old one out and it was never returned and eventually lost. I do not know what I get at the listening position with 15 tube watts. The RF7's are rated at 102db/w -- but The Sound and Vision Review put it closer to 100db/w. Nevertheless, the output is substantial.
The song breaks loose and I'm immediately blown away by the smoothness and definition. Folks, this machine's forte lies in the midrange. It is so smooth from top to bottom and completely free of any grain whatsoever. If it were there, the RF7's would find it. One of the downsides of the horn is it's propensity for pushing all the $hit up along with all that wonderful low level detail. There is no $hit . None.
I move on to all my favorites. Stone Temple Pilots (Core), Some very old Judas Priest (Sad Wings of Destiny), Pink Floyd (Momentary Lapse of Reason), Moody Blues, Metallica (Black), Black Sabbath (Double Live), Asia's first, and a few others I can't remember right now. Each time it was the same clear, smooth top to bottom sound, with no discernable grain or film. Always a little forward, but with no edge. Just effortless sound.
BREAK IN
My feeling on breaking in a component is like buying and breaking in a new pair of shoes. You put them on your feet and they either fit or they don't. Sometimes they fit -- but are a little too tight. You buy them thinking they will break in and fit better. However, they never really do. They stretch some, but they never feel quite right. They end up sitting in the bottom of your closet. The shoe that fits best is the one that fits best right away.
I believe equipment is the same way. You buy something and put it in your system. It doesnt sound quite right. You wait, hoping it will break in and begin to bloom. The sound improves -- but it never sounds 'right'. You then sit around waiting for it to completely break in. After a few months you realize you bought the wrong 'shoes'. Each piece has a basic sonic signature that it maintains even after it is broken in. Some of the rough edges may come off -- but never to the extent that the entire signature changes. If a unit doesn't basically sound 'right' in your system when you drop it in -- don't expect the miraculous. This is just my opinion on the matter, and I am sure many here will disagree.
AFTER-THOUGHTS
This machine integrated into my system well. I'm extremely happy. I expected anything but this. I think if you are using a tube-based system -- than this machine is probably a good choice. If you are using a solid state based system with speakers tending on the warmer side -- than this machine is probably a good choice for you too. However, if you are running all solid state, with speakers that run to the cooler side -- I think a careful audition is in order. I'm not so sure I would have liked this machine running with the Bryston 3b-st/bp-20 combo I had in my system last month. I think it would have been too much of a good thing.
I would like a little more bloom from this machine, and I wish the bass had more weight. The very top end, like I said is a little splashy and not as transparent as it could be. The overall sound however is outstanding and I believe on a scale from 1 to 10 I would rate this machine an 8 for its resolving power ability and smoothness. I feel no real need to mod this machine, or to run it with external digital devices -- I actually like it just the way it is.
I was fully prepared to send this machine back to J&R. It's not going anywhere. Going from the CD-1 to this machine was a substantial upgrade. At the original list price of $1500 this unit would be a winner. At the current list price of $1200 it's even better. At $929 shipped, it's a no brainer -- a complete steal, and this is my feeling on just its Rebook playback capability! With the right ancillary equipment -- very highly recommended.
SACD Playback
This is the 2nd part of a two part review of the Sony DVPS900ES. Part 1 dealt with general impressions and Redbook playback. The primary reason for the review being broken into two parts was because the SACD's from Elusive Disc had not yet arrived -- and I wanted to write my impressions regarding Redbook playback while they were still fresh in my mind.
SONY DVPS9000ES AND SUPER AUDIO COMPACT DISC
The only reason not to go with SACD is because it is very difficult to pronounce. It just doesn't come off the tongue very well. I was telling my Dad about SACD and he says, "What are they called again?" I say, "SAC-D." "SAC what?" he asks again. "Saaaac-Deeee". I'm sure at this point he thinks I have a speech impediment -- so I spell it out for him, "It stands for Super Audio Compact Disc, and it sure is different."
Different it is -- and I will endeavor to describe it the best I can.
My SACD's from Elusive Disc arrived on time yesterday on a beautiful Ohio afternoon. I pulled into my driveway and saw the ubiquitous FedEx box sitting on my porch like an abandoned orphan. Since I had to immediately take my son to soccer practice, I could only grab the box and go. I figured I could at least drool over the contents while I sat in the car watching him kick the ball around.
While I was driving I said, "Hey Ethan, why don't you rip that thing open and let's see what we got in there." Ethan is 11, and watching him pull on the strip-tab was as bad as watching a 90-year-old woman trying to start a lawnmower. He finally manages to get it open, and the first thing that happens is all the Styrofoam peanuts begin floating out of the box, and flying out the windows. I felt bad, and wondered what expletives the folks behind me were engaging in as all the peanuts twirled in a trail behind my car. So, with most of the peanuts now inhabiting various yards in the neighborhood -- the SACD's come tumbling out.
The Byrd's Greatest Hits: I bought this for one reason. I used to own the Redbook version. It was completely unlistenable. Awful. Just awful. It was so bad, I had it 2 days and gave it away.
Alice in Chain's Greatest Hits: I was looking forward to this one. Their first recorded CD was great -- but fairly grainy sounding.
Santana Abraxas: I'm a huge fan of Greg Rolle.
Jeff Beck - Blow by Blow: I only like about 1/2 of this thing, but I was VERY familiar with the early vinyl version, and also own the Redbook version.
Roger Waters - In the Flesh: Just because I hadn't heard it yet, and figured it would be the one to best represent what SACD could offer at its best.
We pull into the parking lot and Ethan jumps out of the car for soccer practice. I jump for the discs. The packaging is nice -- each disc has a sleeve that fits over the jewel case. I wondered if it was really necessary, and how much extra the additional packaging contributed to the total cost of the disc. I guess someone felt the need to make me feel like I was holding something 'special'.
We get back home and I immediately go upstairs. The system is already warm, as I had left everything on from the night before -- with the exception of putting the SF Line 1 and AE-25 in 'standby'. The Super Amp is throwing off waves of heat, and so I load the first disc. The Sony promptly gobbles up 'The Byrds'.
THE BYRD'S GREATEST HITS
It's listenable. Pretty darn good considering the age of the original recording. Definitely better than the Redbook version. It is however, obviously a remix, and I realize that it is going to take a while before I can know for sure what to attribute to SACD, and what to attribute to the recording. The first thing I do is turn down the volume. I then forward to 'Eight Miles High' -- which I've heard at least a 100 times on vinyl. Not because I love it so much, but because that's how many times I had to listen to it to learn my guitar part for our once upon time wannabe Rock band.
At the lower SPL on this recording, it is very easy to tell what SACD is doing. The imaging is much better than Redbook, and I can tell the instruments are spread out from each other a little more. There really is more distance between them, and there is also a little bit of ambiance. On the whole, light years ahead of the Redbook version, and I remember thinking that it sounded much like I had expected the Redbook version to sound when I first bought it -- until I played it and had my ears assaulted. The tone of the guitars seems right on -- and I think this is important.
Though SACD rendered the tones correctly, the remix has the guitars too up front, and the drum kit sounds like someone pushed it off the stage. It's a very midrangey sounding remix, but it's also very clean and open without any congestion. In spite of the forward midrange, it's not making me want to curl into the fetal position.
JEFF BECK - BLOW BY BLOW
I don't like fusion all that much with the funky offbeats and the band sounding like they are all on a different piece of sheet music. However, much of what is on this recording is pretty cool. I'm sitting back listening to it, and am impressed with drum work that has great transient attack. It is sharp, but at the same time, has a softness to the leading edge of the transients. Again, I notice the acoustical space expanded and more space between the instruments. This space adds to the illusion of having each instrument alone, occupying it's own space. Good Redbook does this too -- but not like this. Another old recording vastly improved.
I had just recently, within the last month, listened to this same recording on vinyl at a friends house. He has a Rotel turntable, which is about 6 years old, with an Ortofon MM cartridge. Nothing fancy here. However, this record, on his Klipsch RC7's (identical to the RF7's I have, with the exception of having two 8's instead of two 10's, and a smaller enclosure), and two Boston PV1000 subs -- in spite of filling the room up, sounded fairly flat and very strident. I realize this is probably not the fairest of comparisons, considering he is using old Adcom 555's and a modest vinyl rig. However, now, instead of attributing the differences in our systems to being a matter of levels of refinement -- mine now sounds like it just underwent a major speaker upgrade. The difference is that dramatic.
I can easily see vinyl sounding better than SACD, but it would take a considerable investment. Mark's Rotel/Ortofon rig did a somewhat better job I think, of pushing the music from this recording out into his room, than the same recording in SACD in my room. However, I also think the SACD rendering of 'Blow by Blow' on my system, in my room sounds much more realistic. The SACD recording of 'Blow by Blow' is superior to the Redbook version, and the vinyl version played on a modest rig ($800), in a system using old Adcoms.
I might add here that the real limitation of these old recordings is the source itself, and even with a good vinyl rig -- you are more times than not, stuck with the old vinyl releases. It is more than possible for SACD to always sound better than the best vinyl rigs on these older recordings simply because the new rendering is so clean and uncompressed. Just something to consider.
ALICE IN CHAINS' GREATEST HITS
This disc is cool because the first song was recorded in 1990 and the last song was recorded in 1996. It's sort of like a mini time line of digital recording. The debut CD for these guys was great, but grainy as hell. The grain is all but gone on the early songs and towards the end it starts sounding mighty good. Again, an improvement over the original Redbook release.
Roger Waters' - IN THE FLESH
This one is the bomb. An absolutely outstanding and jaw dropping experience. I have nothing in Redbook that even comes close. Maybe Fleetwood Mac's 'The Dance', which sounds pretty damn good. This SACD however, pushed voices out to my chair. It is so incredibly smooth sounding that by the time I got to 'Comfortably Numb', I was pushing the volume to a level I would never have attempted with any Redbook recording in my possession. I kept waiting for the little triode amp to go up in flames, and every time I looked over, it was blowing me kisses.
I will certainly buy some of my old favorites, if and when they are re-released. However, what I am really looking forward too is new releases of my favorite type of music on this medium.
I would characterize SACD as extremely smooth and transparent. Dynamic, yet not sharp to the point of excess. There is a 'softness' to the leading edge of transients that stayed consistent throughout my listening regardless of recording (whether this is a characteristic of the Sony or SACD I cannot know for sure). SACD also does a great job of rendering instruments in their proper tone and acoustic space. It has a realistic quality to it, spilling out the naked truth more so than ever before. The Sony? It did A.O.K. It did its job. It drew me into the music, and let the music extend out to me when the program material allowed. It maintained much the same sonic signature it had with Redbook and this was much to my liking.
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Dean
Cary AE-25SuperAmp,- Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's -
SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research electronic crossover - MIT/Monsters
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get out-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorance
This message has been edited by deang on 05-30-2002 at 11:53 PM
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I've just been too busy to post anything worthwhile, but I'll have to make time with all the changes I've been making to my system.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmp,f>s>- Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's -
SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research electronic crossover - MIT/Monsters
f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 05-01-2002 at 02:22 PM
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Ampzilla huh?
Great American Sound Co. or GAS as they were known. I believe that amp had 225 wpc.
I had the Son of Ampzilla with a modest 80 wpc.
I used to run that sweet thing on some Old Original Advents.
I have a friend named Scott who used to come over, and we would spend a couple of hours a week together giving my system a proper workout.
Once, we were listening to Genesis 'Seconds Out' on the Thorens's turntable, and had the juice going pretty good.
At one point, I very loud hum begins emitting from the speakers. We look at each other in complete bafflement, and I quickly go over and turn down the volume.
Turning the volume down has no effect, and the hum is EXTREMELY loud. We stand there for a moment, looking at each other with that look -- that look that only hardened, trained audiophiles can exhibit.
While we are looking at each, the right channel makes a horrendous popping sound, and as we turn towards the speaker -- smoke begins protruding from the woofer.
Trained audiophiles do not panic, and we are trained audiophiles. Scott backs away into the kitchen and I open the front door.
The woofer then bursts into flames. Scott immediately goes into the kitchen, and I hear the faucet running. I finally decide to kick out the power cord.
The woofer is really going now, and the flames are lapping up the front of the baffle. Scott comes out with a glass of water and offers to 'douse' the flames. Instead, I opt for unhooking the wires, picking up the speaker, and hurling it into the front yard.
Scott offers backup support by throwing the water on the speaker after it hits, and rolls across the yard.
There's more than one way to get an upgrade.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-28-2002 at 03:22 PM
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Do i get the meter with the digital read out or the analog one?
What is the best CD with test tones and where can I get one?
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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If you are someone else can talk me through what I need to accomplish what you are asking -- I would be glad to do it.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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I don't think Bob was talking about you Kevin. I think he was speaking in general terms and was probably also alluding to comments by others on various forums.
Your initial post was simply asking the question. I did not read anything you wrote that gave me the impression you were trashing Klipsch.
I spent the afternoon listening to Roger Water's 'In the Flesh' on SACD.
I will NEVER give up my RF7's. I can't even begin to imagine the amount of money I would have to spend to best them, and I have no idea where Klipsch goes from here.
I've just always preferred the sound of two-ways with low crossover points -- and I can almost believe the RF7 was made just for me.
Thanks for responding Bob -- we were just curious what you guys thought about the numbers. I accept the explantion as being completely reasonable.
------------------
Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-24-2002 at 10:40 PM
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seems we have quite a bit in common
3 watts might not get it, but 15 watts certainly does
You need and AE-25 Super Amp
check out my Rock & Metal playback system
http://216.37.9.58/ubb/uploads/deang/MVC-003S.JPG
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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I would put fast blow fuses in the speaker cables
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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i read that article -- i'm waiting on part II
deep post Tom -- you really should get more sleep
someday i'll upgrade to some 'real' horns -- but right now i'm having to much fun with the RF7's
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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my tubes are better than your tubes
i just scored some Siemans EL-34's for my Super Amp -- I also have some 6DJ8 Amperex Orange Globes on the way for the drivers and some nifty 6CG7 RCA Cleartops coming to replace the GE's as the current source
i then splurged, and also have an additional 6 Amperex Orange Globes on the way for my Sonic Frontiers Line 1 preamp -- no more Sovteks!
then, to top it all off and completely finish my system upgrades for the next 10 years (yea, right), i sold both my Anthem CD-1 and my LF-10 sub and replaced them with a Sony DVPS9000es and the SVS 20-39 PCi - which should be shipping next week
you can read my review on the Sony 9000es here:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/70488.html
I'm done -- you can stick a fork in me -- i am out of money, broke -- but my wife still loves me
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-23-2002 at 10:56 PM
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sugar and spice and everything nice
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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I need Boa for this one. I don't know squat about the bells and whistles on HT recievers.
I think 'small' means your cutting your mains and 'large' means you're running them full range.
wWhat sounds better to you?
'Small' should sound better.
Forest is right. Shoot that guy.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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We really, really, need to see a picture of your living room with the RF3's setup. Really. With toys and all.
I seriously doubt upgrading to another receiver is going to do much -- unless you get into serious money. HK makes good stuff. Your AVR-520 can throw out 45 amps of instantaneous current. Learn to live with the remote if you can -- you have a good unit.
Besides needing to see a picture of your room -- I would like to know if you are running your RF3's full range, or if you are 'cutting' them and running them through the sub first. Using the high-pass on the sub will increase dynamics and clean up your midrange.
Now, depending on what we find out about your room -- if we see that the room is O.K., and placement is not an issue -- and you still feel the need to upgrade -- I can tell you unequivically that the RF7's would be the way to go. I would consider this a serious upgrade, and a substantial increase in performance.
The RF7's are more detailed and dynamic as compared to the RF3. Also, there is the sensitivity issue.
Look at the chart:
Along with the increase in dynamics, low level detail, and bigger soundstage -- the increase in sensitivity of the RF7 would be like doubling your amplifier power.
If it was me -- that's what I would do.
I would like to be invited over if you decide to get them. I would like to see your wife $hit a kitten. I've never seen that before. My wife usually $hits a cow when I upgrade.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-18-2002 at 07:06 PM
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Will -- you have a point. I just wish I could figure out what S&V did to get 76hz to 14.4khz +/- 4.5db?
Ed -- I won't have it until tomorrow. I picked it up a J&R Music World for $929.99 shipped. I had sold the Anthem CD-1 and my Gibson guitar and ended up having a little free money after taxes. At any rate, I'm apprehensive about the 9000's Redbook playbook as some of Asylum members consider it mediocre at best. Opinions are divided so we'll see.
I really wanted to give SACD a whirl and didn't want a carousel. I also have no interest in multichannel -- so, choices are very limited. It's the 9000es for less than $1K -- or much, much, more money.
I also sold my LF-10 and just ordered a SVS 20-39 PCi. I'm a little nervous about that one too. I hope the bass is reasonably tight -- or she's going back.
You can bet I'll be reporting for better or worse in the coming weeks.
Incidently -- the consensus with the 9000es is that it takes over 300 hours of burn in before the analog section sounds it best.
Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-18-2002 at 02:43 PM
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great Boa, just great -- I finally get the guy calmed down, and you gotta go stirring him up again
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Anyone feel like commenting on those ugly numbers for the RF7 in Sound and Vision Magazine?
Details are in post below titled "No Highs, No Lows, Must Be RF7's?!
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>c>Super Ampf>s>c>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7f>s>c>'s
SVS 20-39PCf>s>c>ic>
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>c>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-18-2002 at 02:40 PM
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C'mon BobG or Jim or SOMEBODY from Klipsch
What's up with those ugly numbers for the RF7 in Sound and Vision??
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony DVP-S9000ES
Klipsch RF7's
SVS 20-39PCi
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-17-2002 at 08:03 PM
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If you change the avitar that you are using with your moniker -- things will get better.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
S. Frontiers/Anthem CD-1
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
-
The picture was taken from the half-way point of the room. There is as much 'room' behind me as there is in front of me.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
S. Frontiers/Anthem CD-1
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
-
1 or 2
------------------
Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
S. Frontiers/Anthem CD-1
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
-
if they are in pretty good condition then I would say $1000 is a fair price
the best way to check them out is to hook them up and play music through them -- then you can check the integrity of all the drivers
as far as the upgrades go -- rope calk around the horns prevents the ringing associated with metal horns
crossover upgrades are a bit more complex but you have come to the right place -- get those LaScalas and come back -- there are plenty or Heritage lovers here who would be more than happy to lend you a hand
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
S. Frontiers/Anthem CD-1
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
Wow
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
DNTBY4N - You're point of view in the referenced thread is understandable -- but you take it to an extreme that is a little unrealistic.
If one of them saved your butt you would certainly be glad they chose the profession they did.
As for the rest of this thread -- only Max seems to have his act together.
I feel if you find the thread objectionable - avoid it.
Good debate means knowing how to agree to disagree. If you don't know how to back up your point of view without resorting to personal attacks then find something else say on another thread.
The problem is not the topic of this thread. After 911 we had several threads about that -- and no one objected.
Now someone comes in trying to represent the Palistinian point of view -- they need to shut up?
All Palistinians are not Muslim. Many are also Christian.
Israel is an apartheid state. Where else in the world do we sanction this? This is not an anti-semetic statement -- it's just a fact.
Imagine someone comes to your house and says you have to go to a refugee camp. They bulldoze your home. They bulldoze your schools. What would your reaction be? You have no true representation on an international level. You have no standing army. What recourse do you have? What tools do you have at your disposal?
Israel is currently in violation of two U.N. mandates. They have been in violation for 40 years. They must revert to the pre 1967 borders.
There must be a formulation of a Palestinian State, and Jerusalem must be shared.
What I find frightening is the propensity for Americans to throw all Arabs into one dish. This is a terrible mistake.
The rhetoric and half truths in support of the Israeli position do not line up with the historical facts.
At the heart of the matter is the fact that the United States has NO clearly defined Middle East foreign policy. None. We only back Israel come hell or high water because of the pressure on Congress from domestic Zionists and Christian Evangelicals who believe
1) God sides with anyone who sides with Israel --
2) The land was promised to Israel by God and so it belongs to them.
The Bible actually teaches that "God is no respector of persons and shows no partiality". He judges objectively based on behavior -- Jew and Gentile alike.
The purpose of Israel was to bring forth Messiah through which God would join Jew and Gentile together. God is on the side of those who act with compassion and mercy -- who do right.
The land promise was fulfilled under Joshua when he led them into the land of promise. The Bible is very clear on this. Joshua told the people:
"The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their forefathers. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord handed all their enemies over to them. Not one of all the Lord 's good promises to the house of Israel failed; every one was fulfilled."
Later, as Joshua is about to die, he says:
"Now I am about to go the way of all the earth. You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the Lord your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed.
God is not interested in a piece a geography that fulfilled it's purpose thousands of years ago. The only geography He is interested in is the geography of the human heart.
As far as the land goes now -- it is important to realize that along with God's promise of inheriting the land -- there were also curses attached if Israel failed to live righteously. God said he would take the land away if the fell into unholy living.
Read the beginning of Joshua #23 in context.
1 After a long time had passed and the Lord had given Israel rest from all their enemies around them, Joshua, by then old and well advanced in years, 2 summoned all Israel-their elders, leaders, judges and officials-and said to them: "I am old and well advanced in years. 3 You yourselves have seen everything the Lord your God has done to all these nations for your sake; it was the Lord your God who fought for you. 4 Remember how I have allotted as an inheritance for your tribes all the land of the nations that remain-the nations I conquered-between the Jordan and the Great Sea <1> in the west. 5 The Lord your God himself will drive them out of your way. He will push them out before you, and you will take possession of their land, as the Lord your God promised you.
6 "Be very strong; be careful to obey all that is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, without turning aside to the right or to the left. 7 Do not associate with these nations that remain among you; do not invoke the names of their gods or swear by them. You must not serve them or bow down to them. 8 But you are to hold fast to the Lord your God, as you have until now.
9 "The Lord has driven out before you great and powerful nations; to this day no one has been able to withstand you. 10 One of you routs a thousand, because the Lord your God fights for you, just as he promised. 11 So be very careful to love the Lord your God.
12 "But if you turn away and ally yourselves with the survivors of these nations that remain among you and if you intermarry with them and associate with them, 13 then you may be sure that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the Lord your God has given you.
14 "Now I am about to go the way of all the earth. You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the Lord your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed. 15 But just as every good promise of the Lord your God has come true, so the Lord will bring on you all the evil he has threatened, until he has destroyed you from this good land he has given you. 16 If you violate the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them, the Lord 's anger will burn against you, and you will quickly perish from the good land he has given you."
Most of the Old Testament is the story of Israel's utter failure at keeping their end of the bargain. It culminated in Jeremiah being directed by God to take a clay pot to the people -- and drop it. Jeremiah says, "and so shall this people be." God said he would scatter the Jews to the "four winds".
So, we have German Jews, Polish Jews, Russian Jews, English Jews, American Jews, etc..
God loves the Israelites and so do I -- God's will is that they return to Him through Messiah. However, God loves Arabs too -- and Israel is wrong.
On another note. The Zionist and Christian Evangelical postion is that the Temple must be rebuilt as the Bible prophesied. This is a misrepresentation of Scripture.
The Temple prophecy was fulfilled under the direction of Ezra and completed under Nehemiah. Anyone reading these books and not comprehending this is being intellectualy dishonest.
Jesus pointed to the Temple and said: "Tear this temple down and I will rebuild it in three days."
I could go on forever, but suffice it to say -- any political discussion not including historical and religious references is fruitless.
I'm going to bed now.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25f>s>SuperAmpf>s> - Sonic Frontiers Line 1 - Sony DVP-S9000ES - Klipsch RF7's
SVS 20-39 CS Plus - Samson S1000 - HSU Research elec. crossover - MIT/Monsters
f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>c>s>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 05-02-2002 at 08:19 AM