Deang
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Posts posted by Deang
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Where do people come up with this stuff?
RF7's are too harsh for music huh?
Maybe the music is too harsh for the RF7's?
You may eventually have to upgrade your front end to get the most out of them -- but for now -- I'm sure they'll do music just fine.
Yeesh.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
S. Frontiers/Anthem CD-1
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-13-2002 at 09:17 PM
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Harman Kardon
I haven't heard anything negative
doesn't surprise me that your YAMAHA dealer, who does not carry Harman Kardon -- has Harman Kardon horror stories
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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You need Boa -- you'll find him faster at the Home Theater Forum section.
You might want to repost there.
I'm assuming you have a multi speaker setup and have read the manual
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-13-2002 at 04:15 PM
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I don't think you're off topic -- and I know what you mean.
Give me high distortion tubes and wimpy Klipsch towers
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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congratulations
with the KG's still in the house it looks like you were due for an upgrade anyway
she'll get over it -- mine always does
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Kevin,
The question is why do the Sound & Vision specs differ so greatly from the manufacturer specs.
The answer must be related to setup. The 'average' user is not going to pull their speakers three feet from the back wall and 2 or more feet from the side walls. Most people just don't have that luxury. 99% of the people buying these things have them next to home entertainment centers, practically against the back wall, and fairly close to at least one corner. It may just be that Klipsch has them close to the back wall when they take their measurements.
As an owner of RF-7's, perhaps you have made in room measurements that you could share, along with specifics as to placement, level, etc.
It is not possible for me to take in room measurements because I do not have any test equipment. I have just never felt the need to do it. I do have a friend with a warble tone generator and a SPL meter. I may have him come over next week and see what we can come up with.
I'm a conscientious audiophile only in the sense that I read tons, and take alot of time trying to get the most out of my system. I haven't given specifications any serious consideration since I threw my last copy of Stereo Review into the trash.
My RF7's are 32" off the back wall and 27" in from the side walls. The bass sounds 'natural' to me without any 'undue emphasis'. When I want 'undue emphasis' I turn up my LF-10.
I think comparing your RB5 graph with the Sound & Vision graph does at least show that the fellow who measured the RB5 had them placed in such a way that they did in fact output as much at 30 hz in that placement as the RF7's did the way Sound & Vision had them placed.
Yep.
The RF-7's do not exhibit the slow, plodding bass I am accustomed to hearing from most towers. There is also no boominess in the low end. The bass is always tight and well articulated. It may be that the lack of extreme output at the lower frequencies may in fact account for the cleaniness of the bass and lower midrange.
I neither consider the bass of the RF7's to be underwhelming nor overwhelming -- just there.
Since I am practically impossible to please -- and I like them so very much -- I can only assume they are perfect.
It will however, be interesting to see how Klipsch responds.
Super_BQ
I wouldn't worry too much about someone 'giving' you a set of RF7's. Now, don't you feel better? At any rate, I have heard many a speaker that specs out great -- but sounds horrible.
cc1091
...show them the RP series, then switch the customer over to the RF-3 and tell them this model is about half the price = sale.
It actually surprises you that most people would opt to buy an $800 set of speakers over a $2000 set of speakers? Not to mention you can get a set of RF3's and KSW12 or KSW15 together for alot less than a set of RP3's.
Klipsch discontinues the RP series and introduces the RF-5 and RF-7 which look for all the world like RF-3's but larger. Hmmm even their specs are not a lot different.
Wow, there's those specs again. You're right, they spec out almost the same -- yet perform and totally different.
My subjective listening tests tells me that they don't sound any better than the RF-3, just a little larger and the bad points of the RF-3 are more emphasized.
Aw c'mon - you can't possibly be serious. How can you make a comment like that? Your posts usually sound pretty intelligent -- what the hell happened here?
I ask, "Why did Klipsch discontinue the RP series?"
Because only 1 in 10 preferred them to the RF3's or RB5's with a good sub.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-13-2002 at 05:43 PM
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Below is the frequency response graph for the RB5 --
The testing done in this RB5 review reveals the RB5 to be 14db down at 30Hz. So I guess that means the RB5 plays lower than the RF7. Yea, right.
Think I'll just keep using my ears.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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don't forget about all this fun stuff!!
http://www.onhifi.com/features/20010301.htm
http://www.aslgroup.com/dcs/upandover.htm
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?344
think I'll go back to a turntable!!
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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How things change over the course of a few days.
Thank God for friends with money!
I get to keep the AE-25.
I also managed to sell my Anthem CD-1 and will have a Sony c555es on the way in a few days.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Super Amp
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Sony SCD-C555ES
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-10-2002 at 06:33 PM
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well, it's no secret here on this board thatI much favor the sound of Reference over Heritage.
My 15 watt AE-25 has no problem driving my RF7's to ridiculous levels -- of course, I only sit 8 feet away from the speakers
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MIT/Monsterf>s>
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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List for $1200
Sell for $1050
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Beautiful weapons -- very nice. The Gold Cup is gorgeous. I always liked Dan Wessons. Smooth looking with good fit and finish.
You're down in Cincy -- where do you shoot IPSC? I always wanted to get into that but just never got around to making time to do it.
Moderators are going the $hit a brick when they see this thread.
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Klipsch RF7'sf>s>
MIT/Monsterf>s>
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Ruger makes good weapons. Some of the models are bulky but they are reliable as hell. Looks come in second to reliability.
Smith is never getting my money again - ever.
Nice rifle you got there. I don't hunt -- so I never got into rifles. See any Bigfoot yet out there in the high Sierras?
I just always stuck with M1911's because of how they sit in my hand and the fact that I really understand the gun. I can take them all the way down - pins and all.
Nickel tax on ammo huh? I'm surprised they can even still buy ammo over there in feminazi controlled territory.
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Klipsch RF7'sf>s>
MIT/Monsterf>s>
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Now John be talking in a language I understand!!
Here is my Les Baer
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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John,
I'm still trying to figure out a way to keep the Peacekeeper. I'm considering taking out a small short term loan so I can keep it. Selling the Peacekeeper is worse than giving up the AE-25. I do most of my music listening in the winter -- when it warms up I like to shoot and throw darts.
In the event you are not a liberal jerking my chain and your comment was sincere -- you should check out American Western Arms at www.awaguns.com
Their version of the Peacekeeper is the real deal. Black powder frame, case hardened (not just colored), and a blue to die for.
These are cold forged with good 'ole American steel and then handfitted by defectors from the Colt Custom Shop.
Unbelievable amount of gun for the money.
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S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s>
Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s>
Marantz DV-7010f>s>
Klipsch LF-10f>s>
Klipsch RF7'sf>s>
MIT/Monsterf>s>
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-06-2002 at 09:45 PM
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Doesn't it just figure -- you get everything just the way you want it and then...
...you find out you owe the IRS $4500!
Yeesh. I took that 2nd job back in June, and man oh man -- I got burnt big time.
So where does a guy with 3 kids, $700 a month in child support to another 2 not living at home, a mortgage, and car payments get $4500?
Yep -- he starts selling off those pricey toys. I had considered getting a loan -- but with Debbie having gone part time to home school the kids, I felt it was fiscal suicide. So off to AudiogoN they went.
The Anthem CD-1 sold in a record 45 minutes. I got $850 for this 4 year old unit. Not bad. I got to use it for about $15 a month.
Before I posted the sale, I did some extensive listening with my Marantz DV-7010. This DVD/CD player originally listed for $899. I bought it as a discontinued item on clearance for $599. Though they are discontinued -- they are still around for about that same price.
Since I was strictly using it as a DVD player for movies -- I never really took any time to listen to CD's on it. When you have a $1700 CD player sitting on your rack -- what incentive is there to do so? I had maybe two or three times listened to a CD through it -- but found it a little lean sounding compared to the Anthem.
So, before selling off my beloved CD-1 -- I sat down for a few hours to some serious comparisons. Initially, I was not surpised. The Anthem had a more full bodied sound giving texture to the music that the Marantz lacked. I had no idea how I was going to bite the bullet and give this thing up.
The one thing I could say for the Marantz was that it somehow sounded 'cleaner' than the Anthem, with a nice shimmer on the cymbals -- and at least it didn't have the digital edge I was so accustomed to hearing on the lower end to middle CD players -- especially the Sony decks. I decided the only thing I was giving up was some of that full bodied sound one normally only expects to hear with vinyl. It's alot to give up though. However, I'm an expert at rationalization -- and decided the clean, incisive, punchy sound of the Marantz, could actually be pretty easy to live with.
Now it gets painful. I did manage to sell the Bryston on Wednesday -- so I'm left with two amps -- The Super Amp and the Anthem Amp1. The Amp1 has been floating out on AudiogoN for 45 days. I've received two emails about it since I listed it. It's not moving. However, I figure if I list the AE-25 -- it will certainly sell.
Selling the AE-25 and one of my handguns gets my tax liability taken care of. I unhook the amp. I'm not crying and this surprises me. I drag myself across the room and drag the 'POS' Anthem to the rack. I fire it up and let it warm for about 10 minutes. In goes the music. I sit down with the remote and brace myself. I press play, the music begins -- and it sounds...sounds...uhmm...well...it sounds good!
Not near as incisive as with the AE-25. There is body to the music again and the bottom is nice and fat. Not as defined as the AE-25 but nice nonetheless. I listen to four songs and put the CD-1 back in the loop. Thick. Too thick, and the lower midrange sounds somewhat homogenized. I decide the EL-34 based Amp1 and tubed output CD-1 also lacks some definition.
This sets off a flurry of activity. Back in goes the AE-25. The CD-1/AE-25 combo is wonderful. They complement each other perfectly. I try to mentally compare this combo to the Marantz/Amp1 combo. It's impossible. Back to the rack (due to the nature of this kind of torture -- it does not surprise me that we refer to them as 'the rack'). I wire the Amp1 back in. Again, the Marantz and the Amp1 sound great together. Time to draw some conclusions.
The AE-25/CD-1 combo had a slightly more refined sound and the midrange was certainly clearer with more space between the instruments. No question about this. If there was a weakness, it was in the body of the bass. Though quick and punchy -- it did not hang around long enough to give me that sense of real presence that bass is supposed to give. I tried in vain over the last month to integrate my LF-10 to offset this, but had given up altogether -- because I could just never get it to gel.
The Amp1/Marantz combo, though not quite as refined sounding -- still managed to sound very captivating. The lower midrange was a touch thick -- but the bass, though not as 'quick' sounding as the AE-25, has an 'all there' quality that works really well with the kind of music I usually listen too. The EL-34 ultralinear based Amp1 also added body and warmth back into the music and offset some of the incisiveness of the Marantz -- leaving the Marantz' razor edge cleanliness intact.
I was afraid I would be taking two giant steps back -- but what I found was simply a 1/2 step back and one off to the side. Not bad, and I get to pay my taxes.
Because of this, I was also able to hook the LF-10 back in. There is something in the quality or quantity of the bass with the Amp1 that allows me to dial in the sub seamlessly. With the AE-25, no matter what I did -- the sub seemed like a separate entity.
I have certainly formed some new, strong opinions regarding component matching.
At any rate, it was a good run -- but what I have left is still light years ahead of what I had a year ago, and only a moon's shot of what I'm giving up.
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S Frontiers/Anthem Amp1f>s>
Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s>
Marantz DV-7010f>s>
Klipsch LF-10f>s>
Klipsch RF7'sf>s>
MIT/Monsterf>s>
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-06-2002 at 02:47 PM
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Christos said:f>s> "..and it was later on that I realised Max was using a subwoofer too - and not in the middle but at the far left side!!f>s>
Christos -- your comment indicates that you were surprised to find the subwoofer in the corner. I find it intersting that you would be surprised by this -- it is after all, the most common form of placement.
It is also the most practical way to boost the overall output of the sub, so it will more easily integrate with, and match up to the efficiency of horns.
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Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s>
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Klipsch LF-10f>s>
Klipsch RF7'sf>s>
MIT/Monsterf>s>
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-03-2002 at 10:47 PM
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Craig,
Just because Kelly got defensive doesn't mean he is paranoid. I think his reactions were completely natural.
As far as the 'Army of three' thing goes. I'm sure he felt, and still feels -- that your perception of the sound is biased by your opinion regarding the design of the circuit. I'm just guessing here.
He probably felt bad you weren't happy and deep down DID feel responsible.
I think your assessment of him is off the mark - IMO
What's wrong with stong opinions? The fact that he places emphasis on this -- shows his openess to the opinion of others. He has his mind made up -- but I don't ever recall him slamming someone for disagreeing.
I like all you guys -- what an awesome site this has become because of you. However -- I would have much preferred an Army of Four, as opposed to an Army of Three.
This sucks.
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MIT/Monsterf>s>
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Josh - don't buy new. There is just no reason to. The deals on used equipment are simply incredible.
I realize you have a minimal investment in the Heresys -- and from your point of view it probably seems to make sense to not go completely overboard with your front end investment.
Why not just go with some used ASL stuff just to give you an idea of what tubes can do? If you like it and decide you might want to upgrade -- you can easily sell it for what you paid for it.
There are several other options as well. If you don't want to go with the retro look -- you can pick up an Anthem Amp1 and Pre2L (has remote) for about $1200. It's a great sound -- just not as detailed as the triode offerings.
Whatever you do - it's hard to go completely wrong. Personally -- I will never go back to solid state.
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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You have them backwards. Reference Series is above the Synergy Series in quality of components used and quality of sound.f>s>
The RB3's retail for $650. Remember -- more times than not you get what you pay for. This is one of those times.f>s>
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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Hey Ed -- shhhh! You'll blow my sale
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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You don't need no stinkin remote
f>s>I don't know much about the Wave 8's -- however, I have heard that ASL has been plagued with some quality control problems as of late. Hard to go wrong with the price though.f>s>
If you are going to go on the cheap -- you might as well go all ASL or even maybe a Jolida integrated.f>s>
I think to benefit the most from what the Heresys have to offer -- you should stay all class A triode if you can. I had been running the Anthem Amp1 (EL-34 tubes running in ultralinear) with the Anthem Pre1L (6922 based Line stage) for a while -- and the Super Amp walked all over it. It was a not so subtle differencef>s>
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-02-2002 at 07:47 PM
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It's possible they were 'B' stock -- but without the serial numbers there is no way to know.
Post the serial numbers and maybe someone will be able to help you.
Still a great deal though.
Welcome to the board!
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
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The main difference between mine and the $1400 version is that mine is still 15 watts instead of 20. The previous owner ordered the standard version, but had them perform the oil and film cap upgrade, install the volume control knob, and send along a Kimber power cord.f>s>
It has just the two inputs (L/R) -- so you would need a preamp if you wanted to use more sources than a CD player. The inputs are very nice. They are Kimber single ended inputs and are very solid -- not like the chinzy, gold plated inputs you usually see on audio equipment.f>s>
I do not remember with absolute certainty - but I think this amp with the mods and power cord was almost $1500. I would sure hate to part with that power cord -- I'm sure it's the reason the amp sounds so good.f>s>
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Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c> -- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-02-2002 at 02:36 PM
No Highs, No Lows, Must be RF-7's?!
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
I didn't mean to step on a good Klipsch owner's ears, but plainly my ears hear a sound that is different from what yours hear.
I'm not that thinned skinned so don't worry about me being offended. I think it's true we all hear a little differently or we would'nt be able account for such diversity in speakers.
I'm somewhat relieved that Sound & Vision has published tests that back-up SOME of my contentions about the RF series (I was wondering if my ears had finally lost something to the march of years). On the other hand, I must admit that it seems that S&V tests seem to indicate that a speaker tests much worse that it reasonably should be.
I think we will just have to wait and see what Klipsch's response is to those horrible numbers. Those numbers are certainly not indicative of what I'm hearing. I'm at a complete loss here. I do believe S&V screwed something up though -- as evidenced by my reprint above of the frequency response graph of the RB5.
To me, the Rf series always sounded like the bass was less controlled and filled with more distortions (cabinet and sympathetic distortions between the dual woofer format).
I don't know what to say except they sound clean to me. The bass comes through without destroying the lower midrange. No, the cabinets are not well braced internally, and initially, that bothered me too. However, with the advancements in computer modeling and analysis -- most of these anomolies are corrected in the crossover.
Plus, the RF still needs a sub just to get to the bass depth that the Rps had built in. I can't complain much about the upper end, because the Rp-3 and 5 had nearly the same driver there.
Well, the RP3 and RP5 used the EXACT same driver/horn as the RF3 and RB5. Sure, RF3/RB5 need a sub to get to where the RP3/RP5 were -- but look at the overall difference in price. It's a bunch. I think we agree here.
It is also my contention that Klipsch wrongly interpreted the sales numbers for the RF-3 to mean that they should drop the entire RP series and build two new speakers that are exactly the same as the RF3, except for the fact that they are bigger in nearly every way.
I think what they looked at is the same thing everyone else in the market looked at. The unpopularity of powered towers. The RP3's are basically RB5's with two KSW10's. The RP5's are RF3's with two KSW12's. Due to the placement issues most people are faced with -- powered towers just don't integrate well. Speakers usually end up having to be placed fairly close to walls and/or corners, and this causes them to boom to high heaven. For the same amount of money one can get some RF3's and a Carver Sunfire, Velodyne, or RSW12. It's easier to integrate and will produce a better quality of bass.
First I was disheartened that Klipsch wanted to create such a redundancy with the RF3, RF5 and RF7 just as they did with the Rp3 and Rp5.
I still don't understand why you keep lumping the RF5, RF7, and RF3 together. They are not the same. These speakers all sound fairly different from each other and all have different performance parameters. The RF5 has a larger horn, different crossover, and it's voiced completely different than the RF3. The RF7 uses a completely different driver altogether. There is nothing redundant here at all. As far as the RP3 and RP5 goes -- room size would be the biggest determination in which way to go here -- not sonic signature. So again, no redundancy here either.
Second, I think they would have done themselves a favor by keeping the RF3, introducing the RF7 (which is much larger sounding than the RF3), and reformulating the two RP speakers into a new package that kept a three way speaker (or something close to a three way speaker like the Rp series) in the reference line.
The RP series were no more a three-way than the RF series with a sub. I wouldn't really consider the RP series a three-way. They were basically two-ways with built in subs.
I must also point out that I am used to listening to my Rp3s and my Heresys through MIT speaker cables. The RF series speakers I have listened to have been through the cheap store system speaker cables that lead to a multiple distribution box (so they can match their zillion components to your selected speaker). I think some of my opinions could change if listening to the RF series through a pair of MIT speaker cables proved a much better sound than I imagine.
I use MIT's also and they are a very good match with horns. Sure, ideally you should hear them with decent equipment in a decent room. But when you get right down to it -- that's basically what you have -- RB5's with two KSW10's. So, for all intents and purposes -- you know what RF sounds like.
I will read with interest any finding from a Klipsch owner that either verifies or discounts Sound & Vision's tests (as I think many of the audio magazines don't give Klipsch a fair shake).
Agreed. Better yet -- Klipsch should respond.
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Deanf>s>
Cary AE-25 Class A Triode Amp
S. Frontiers/Anthem CD-1
Sonic Frontiers Line 1
Marantz DV-7010
Klipsch RF7's
Klipsch LF-10
MIT/Monsters
Toshiba 36"f>s>
Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c>
This message has been edited by deang on 04-14-2002 at 01:41 PM