Groovie

I recommend upgrade! I currently have a very similar system. RF-15 mains, RC-25 Center, and I use the RCR-3's for surrounds in my ceiling. You will like the RF-15's much better than the RB-25's much fuller sound. I almost bought bookshelf RSX-8's I think, but I was going to put them on stands anyhow. The floor units basically have a built in stand, cheaper in the long run (you don't need to invest in stands too!), and a higher quality sound. I power the system with an Onkyo 601, very similar set up and it sounds great! I have the RW-12 and if you ask around you'll find most people recommend an inventment in the sub, I would not recommend the rw-8 or the rw-10 if you can spend a little more for the 12.

Yikes, I almost through out my back on the rw-12, these subs are huge and heavy, I know the rsw-15 is quite larger, I'll never forget the look on my wifes face when she saw my home theater speaks, still in the boxes, piled up in the foyer. Her idea of home theater is the "cube system" hehe. I still had to settle on the rf-15's, they were quite a stretch with the waf. Anyhow I ran accross some comfort on the net at audiogon.com The RSW15 is a serious piece of work. Provided you place it well and set it up properly, the result will be clean, fairly quick, and devastating in terms of raw power. Even as I tried to keep my shirt from blowing off, I noted that the RSW15 remained composed and controlled. Chris Lewis, Home Theater, August 2002 "The self-powered dual 15-inch subwoofer (one front-firing passive cone radiator, one rear-firing cone woofer) is absolutely the most thunderous and ground-shaking sub we've ever heard." "No matter where you place it in your listening space (we placed it in the corner) you get unbelievable sense of raw power with excellent timing accuracy." Andrew Hawn, techtv, June 2003 "I cued up the World War II submarine drama U-571. Oh boy, the RSW-15's downright-menacing low-end fury filled my large room. Those famous depth-charge impacts set off motion detectors in my neighbor's apartment." Steve Guttenberg, Home Theater Magazine, November 2003 Good luck with the sub! I love mine and it isn't even half of what you got!

Sorry for previous post. I meant sf-3 floor standing speaker not the sc.

IMO the lowest priced ref floor speaker, rf-15 is better sounding than the sc-3 or best synergy speaker. Cleaner, crisper, more dynamic, overall better sound reproduction across the hz range. However, let your own ears decide and choose what sounds best to you. You may prefer the synergy.

Hmmm, come to think of it we have been having a good number of appliances breaking down lately! The washer, the dryer, the furnace, the ac, the tv, I am beginning to see the pattern now, and she is always "too tired", hmmm

So it sounds like the lines should be straight, I'll call them again tomorrow, this will be the third time I'll have them out, quite a pain in the rear for the wife to have to keep meeting this guy, hopefully I can make it next time! The WAF is escalating to meltdown levels with her having to deal at all with this issue, she complains as it is and I had to settle for ceiling speakers for surrounds! (They still sound great!)

I posted an issue with my Toshiba 34" widescreen HDTV a few months back. When running the THX optimizer, from a THX dvd, I noticed an issue with a concave image on both the left and right verticle sides of the box and circle image dispayed. I also notice now in movies where walls and doors appear to have a curve to them. The tv is under warrenty with HIFi Buys, a Tweeter company. The first tech looked at it and said the tube may need replaced, but he would need help working with the 275lb tv. Another appointment was set and the next guy said it was just out of alignment and an easy fix. He said he could fix it, but to expect some curviture that it would never be straight. Is that accurate? It appears worse to me now. The entire image has shifted left so that some of the box is now off screen and the concave curviture still looks the same. There is an 8th to a quarter inch bend in the picture the edges of the screen. Sorry for the lengthy explanation, but should it be straight, or should I expect some curviture in a 34" flat tube widescreen hdtv? Is this an easy fix or is it a serious issue? Your thoughts and opinions or suggestions on where to find an answer are greatly appreciated.

I thought this issue might have been clipping, but after doing some research it doesn't sound like it was. From what I read clipping is high notes clipped and comes from the tweeters, my problem was with the woofers. The problem resulted from turning my speakers to large and playing the opening scene from Attack of the Clones at a high volume. The RF-15's sounded terrible, I thought it was clipping, but they caved under the bass. I never had a problem with them switched to small with the rw-12 handling the bass, even at higher volumes. My question is what caused the terrible sound my speakers made when they received heavy bass set to large. If you have seen Attack of the Clones, when the spaceship flies in, in the opening sequence it has some serious rumbling bass. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I also apologise for stepping on your synergy toes. I didn't mean that synergy speakers sound like crap, only in comparison to reference, I feel there is a night and day difference. The synergy line of speakers compared to others select speakers sound great. I hope that clears things a bit.

Its not that much of a stretch for me to discount change in venue and amp set up, for the difference was quite considerable, again IMHO. The quality of sound in the rf line so surpassed that of the synergy line that it more than disqualified the varible in amps and location. I have a good ear for music and a pretty good memory, if the variance in sound was close, I would agree that it is not a fair accessment, however, again just my opinion, there was such a separation that I feel it cancelled out amp and local. This decision wasn't based on one audition either, I listened to both several times, and each time I heard the synergy line, I was very thankful that I spent more money on the refernce line. It is worth the money! That is not to say that synergy is not a great line of speakers, I thought they were better than the bose, jbl, and the rest that best buy had to offer.

I domo'ed the onk 601 against the comparable denon, and the both were very comparable sound wise, I went with the onk, because it was a better deal.

I initially demo'ed the rf-15, rf-25, and the like paradigm reference floor models. I actually liked the crisp sound of the rf-15 compared to the deeper rf-25 paired with the rw-12, the rw-12 provides all the bass I needed. The was no rf-35 for me to listen to, but both klipsch speakers were preffered to paradigm. Then I went to best buy and demo'ed the synergy series, and although it was not a side by side comparison, everything sounded like crap. It could have been the amp. Now I will say the sf-3 was the best in that line, but IMO even it didn't measure up to the new reference line. The smaller rf-15 to me sounded more dynamic, crisp, and pure. All the other synergy speakers save the sf-3 were vastly inferior IMO. Especially the centers and subs. I have never heard the rf-3II, so I can't comment there, but new synergy IMO, just doesn't measure up.

All my Klipsch speakers came with a manual. Can you return the rw-10 and swap it for the rw-12. I demo'ed both and albeit my rf-15's need the support, but with the rw-12 you can feel the bass. I wasn't even sure the rw-10 was turned on in comparison. The rw-12 is a big step up from the rw-10 and more than worth the small up-charge.

I have the same opinion on the rf-15 vs the 25. The 25 did have more bass, but I liked the crisp sound of the 15. Bass in my set-up is supported by the monster rw-12, so I decided crisp, clean rf -5's were the best bet. Never heard the rf-35, but no matter the WAF came into play there, I was lucky to get anything on the floor! Anyhow I went with the RC-25 because Klipsch pairs it with the 15's and the rcr-3's I use for surrounds. They also recommend it with the rf-25. They pair the rc-35 with the big boy rf-35's. The rc-25 sounds great with my set-up!

---------------- On 2/19/2004 11:25:59 PM dougdrake wrote: If you can swing it, I'd go for the 12". ---------------- Here Here, I second the motion. Never heard the 8, but demo'ed the 10 and 12, and, well the RW-12 is the choice! My room is 17' x 23'

You sort of hit on my point, except you also back what Nicholtl said, and I really wanted to here Nicholtl's perspective. Anyhow the point is that if THX recommends a cross over setting at 80hz, I am saying you are both wrong in saying that it only applies to a full THX set-up. To think that is ludicrous! THX is a certification that a company pays for and so do you when you buy a THX certified equipment. It is a set of rules, origonally developed so that when applied, what you get at home, is what was origonally on the big screen. It is a great standard for the industry. To incorporate any of its guidelines or practices into any setup is a step toward achieving the origonal big screen sound and the essence of THX! You and Nicholtl imply that THX certified equipment is somehow better or different than non certified THX. I am here to tell you that it is only a certification and that there is plenty un-certified equipment on the market capable of achieving and exceeding the benchmarks of THX, so if you have quality equipment from a quality manufacturer, please use the THX guidelines that you can implement with in your control (ie crossover), because that is why THX exists. You will be pleased with the results and that much closer to achieving true home theater! Please...THX really means that the company you purchased your audio equipment from payed alot of money and jumped through a bunch of hoops to get certification so they can market it to you and charge you through the a--. THX is a great thing for the Home Theater industry, but keep yourself in check with reality! Compare your hardware with that which is THX certified, if it matches up, where is the need to be concerned with certification? I would however apply all the at home THX guidelines I could. Again the crossover is your personal preference, your personal THX, so to speak!

oops, not much experience with the in walls, I only remember reading a post about the fact that the ceiling speakers would sound better, maybe because the wall speakers were enclosed in a very small encloser, not sure, again out of my bailiwick. I can only attest for the sound of the rcr-3's, which sound great, maybe I will get a chance to here the rcw's at my buddies house and give you a more educated opinion.

I have the rcr-3's and they sound wonderful for surrounds, I could only believe the wall speakers would sound better, the only limitation is the wall cavity itself may not resonate as well as in ceiling. If you have a ceiling space I would definately recommend rcr-3's or 5's. 3's timber match better with my setup. A new friend of mine has the rcw's in the wall for rear channel and in the ceiling for surrounds, but I have yet to hear his setup.

---------------- On 2/18/2004 1:23:32 PM nicholtl wrote: ---------------- On 2/17/2004 9:34:55 PM Groovie wrote: I am sticking with the 80 hz since it is the THX recommended cross over and the speakers have no issue with it. ---------------- Just so you know, it's only THX recommended assuming you have a full THX setup. But that said, 80hz does work for many people. ---------------- For some reason my previous responce to this post did not post... Nicholtl, I would like to know what you beleive you are talking about in this post, what is the basis of your comment? You truely believe a THX recommendation only applies with a full THX set-up. I question your integrity. Please provide some more detail to back this up.

My surrounds are rated as low as 50hz, and the center channel is mainly for vocals, plus the rc-25 can handle -80hz, I have not singled the speakers out and listened to the crossover individually, but again the only speaker that would take issue with the 80hz crossover is the center channel and you really should not be concerned with deep bass on that channel, your mains will pick up anything the center lacks. And no my receiver does not have a medium speaker setting, or two crossovers. What works on my system may not work for you, it is up to your individual taste, and it sounds as if an 80hz crossover is just not your cup of tea.

If you ever run something with heavy low bass that is below the range of your rf-15's, below 45hz at loud volumes you may end up with clipping. It litterally sounds like a clip or a crack, like metal smacking metal or parts of your speakers inards crashing into the magnet repeatedly. It sounds really bad and since the rf-15's are not meant for deap bass, which they are not protected from when set to large, you need to be aware of the potential problem at high volumes. The rf-15's when married with a good sub like the rw-12 sound awesome! By the way I tried the THX optimizer test with my amp set to both 80hz crossover and 100 hz cross over. There was no real audible difference, the 15's handled the +80 to -100 range very nicely, and there were no gaps or loss of sound between 200hz and 20hz which is the range played. I am sticking with the 80 hz since it is the THX recommended cross over and the speakers have no issue with it.

2. Other Speaker Brands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Suppose that, for some reason, you either decide not to purchase Bose speakers, or you wish to compare Bose with other speakers. What other speakers should you consider? A complete answer to this question is outside the scope of this FAQ --- consult the "Good Sound for Cheap FAQ." But as a short answer, some brands names worth considering include PSB, Paradigm, Thiel, Mirage, Definitive Technology, B&W, Radio Shack LX5 (designed by Linaeum), Magnepan, RDL, KEF, NHT, Signet, Infinity, Spica, Energy, Quad, Martin-Logan, Celestion, Vandersteen, Apogee, Acarian Alon, and dozens of others. This is not to say that everyone loves all of these brands --- some people love them, some people hate them, and you should listen for yourself --- but most people on the audio newsgroups would rate most of these brands above Bose. Some brands names generally considered worse than, equal to, or at least not consistently superior to Bose include Polk, Technics, Klipsch, Sony, JBL, Kenwood, KLH, Pioneer, Cerwin-Vega, Advent, DCM, and dozens of others. Of course, again, opinions vary (Klipsch, in particular, has some strong proponents). Given the long list of worse speakers on the market, its actually rather surprising that only Bose receives such criticism on the audio newsgroups. Boston Acoustics and AR have and apparently still produce some excellent budget speakers but, unfortunately, many mediocre speakers as well. Here is a link to the authors site: http://home.earthlink.net/~busenitz/bs.html#BRANDS and here is their e-mail address, I am sure they welcomes responces, laney@coltrane.colorado.edu Man they will let you put any garbage on the net!

Sorry, been on a hiatus, anyhow, yes cross over is set at 80hz, I tried 60, 80, 100, and 120. 80hz had the best responce from the Onk. I also occasionally forget to turn on the sub and the rf-15's sound perfect! Very strong on the lows, they are great all around speakers, they certainly outperform the competitors larger speakers! I prefer the 15's to the rf-25, listened to them side by side before making the purchase. I may switch the cross-over to 100hz, now that I am use to the 80hz and see if there is much of a change. What ever you do don't let the 15's have the entire sound range, I switched them to large once and damn near cracked them. I now fully understand the term clipping! As for the ca-5t's they have a very true sound, not much for bass, but when openned up they sound like a concert in my back yard. They are very loud speakers! I have not heard a klipsch speaker yet that I didn't like.

That's my set up. RF-15 with the rw-12, it is a marriage made in heaven! My room is 17 x 23 with two 6' openings on the 23' dimension to a 10' x 23' foyer. Its a big area and the rw-12 shakes the house. You will feel this sub! When you get it try the THX optimizer on any THX DVD. When you test the sub cross over, mine is at 80hz, the sound goes so low it it no longer audible, but you can still feel it!