mikebse2a3

---------------- On 3/1/2004 8:56:08 PM Jon Anderson wrote: Being new to tubes I am curious If I should expect ANY hum from an at rest tube amp through my horns. Recent 233 rebuilt by Ryan Inman is dead silent. Brand new Kailin / Jolida EL34 based integrated amp off ebay generates a discernable hum. I've been told by seller to reseat the tubes, let the tubes burn in, try a different source, stand on my head. Amp still hums. I tried the amp on a set of Large Advents. Advents are very inefficient so the hum is not noticable. But on my Cornwalls or Klipschorns it sounds like crap compared to the Scott. Returning the amp to the seller for an exchange is course I expect to pursue. However I'd apprecaite some input from those with many more years of tube experience. Are my expectations out of line? Thanks.. ---------------- I've owned a pair Dynaco MKIV, Heathkit UA-1 , AES SE-1 {2A3} amplifiers and except for a bad ground connection on one of the Dynaco MKIV all where silent on my KHorns. I've also had several Dynaco ST70, Knight , McIntosh 225 , and a Marantz 8B that I have repaired for friends hooked to my KHorns and all where very quit on the KHorns. If the amps are designed right and operating properly then a tube amp should work very well with the KHorns. Does your amp Hum through both channels? Is the Hum loud enough to be heard at your listening seat? At most the hum I have heard from the above amps would require you to be right at the Khorn to hear them at all. Sorry I've got no personel experience with the amp in question but hopefully someone familiar with your model amp will reply and tell you if this design has a loud hum level. mikeb

---------------- On 2/29/2004 2:32:12 PM Dylanl wrote: Craig, I am going to box it up and send it back for you to look at. Why I am so upset is not because of the Scott amp. I am worried that if the Scott is fine maybe I just do not prefer the Khorns. Klipschorns speakers have always been at the top of my list and to get there and turn them off shakes my audio foundation. This is the reason for my concern. I want to feel like so many on this forum feel "audio bliss" as their horns honk away. If I can tone either the amp or the tweeter down a bit I will be in love. It seems like the "S" & "T" in songs with words are the worst. Example: U2's "Sweetest Thing" unbearable. Anyone that has Klipschorns and this song please try it and let me know your thoughts. I hope I will find an answer without spending a small fortune. So glad I have this forums shoulders to cry on. Thanks, All. ---------------- Dylanl, don't give up on the KHorns. I've been where your at and if I hadn't heard how great they can sound I might would have given up on them a few times. They are like any high resolution speaker and they will benefit from carefull equipment matching and setup and if possible room treatment. Definitly check the amp out especially if it has a hum. Also like others have said make sure they are {sealed} in the corners properly because this will definitly affect your perception of the vocals. I'm assuming yours are all orginal also and you can't change the balance of the squaker as with ALK crossovers. Alot of edginess thats blamed on speakers/componets can actually be caused by bad reflections from the room and especially the side wall reflections. I don't know your room conditions or your freedom to make room adjustments but generally if you can do anything to diffuse or redirect these early reflections it can go along way to cleaning up the sound of vocals,horns,piano and harmonica on my blues CD's is also a good test for this if all these are recorded good! If it does turn out to be room conditions and your very limited to room adjustments/treatments then matching componets is about your only option and you must pick what sounds best to you with the music you like to listen to.To bad alot of the music we like isn't recorded well and is often very colored.I've had my {79}Khorns in three different rooms since I bought them in 1990 and I've had them sound edgy in every room till I found the right setup for them in each room but when you get it right the vocals are wonderful. So take your time and don't despair and don't throw money at componets and things out of desperation. mikeb

My room is gypsum on 2x4 stud walls and standard carpet on wood suspended floor. After following the topic on properly sealing the KHorn to it's corner I realized that even though I had a good seal on the tailboard to the corner and the KHorn was sitting on plywood triangles over the carpet in the corners I hadn't really sealed the panel above the bass bin to the corner as suggested by artto,HDBR and Q man. I sealed the top above the bass bin by cutting out four 3/4" by 3/16" thick and 20" long strips of wood and wrapping them with 1/4" thick closed cell weather strip foam by going down one side and up the other side. I can slide the seals in or out to easly hear the differance. Wow what a differance! The problem is after listening for about a week to alot of good CDs I've noticed female and especially male vocals have a heavy almost boomy quality to them and the KHorn didn't have a properly integrated sound. I've got ALK crossovers in the KHorns and no adjustment of the autotransformer could make things come together properly. I believe that this might be a room mode problem being excited. I do use Tube Trap bass traps to help control room modes but like alot of people my room/setup is far from ideal! The point of all this is I tried an experiment by taking one of the 2 seals I had made for each KHorn bass bin's top panel out and leaving one seal in place. This eliminated the problems in the vocals and I've got the best balance of the KHorn/ALK crossover yet in this room. I'm looking into stiffening the side walls of the KHorn's corners with MDF or Plywood and see if this makes things better or worse. For those of us with less than perfect rooms/setups I thought my experience might help someone with similar problems. Would like to hear anyone elses experience or ideas on this! mikeb

Just curious, Can anyone tell me what drivers/crossover would have been used in the Audio/Nov. 1986 review of the Klipschorn by Richard Heyser? Thanks mikeb

Thanks for the info John! I wasn't aware of the Type AA being 4800Hz crossover. My 79 KHorns had already been updated to the AK-2 crossover and K-55-M squawker when I bought them in late 1990. I know the AK-2 was also designed with the K-77-M tweeter flush mounted on the motor board. I've also changed the T5A autotransformer to the AK-3 T4A autotransformer which runs the squawker about 2dB louder and will maybe convert it to a full AK-3 crossover after seeing what others have thought about the AK-2 versus AK-3. I definitly liked the autotransformer change. By the way I live just a few hours from Chattanooga. I've been there a few times some really nice sites. The View from Rock City at night during the Christmas holidays was beautiful!

---------------- On 2/17/2004 6:19:10 PM BackBurner wrote: So whats the deal, is the cabinet interfering with the mouth of the tweeter ? ---------------- This is what the Electro-Voice brochure recommends for mounting the EV T35A same as klipsch K77. The rear surface of the speaker baffle should be routed out to bring the portion of the baffle on which the tweeter is mounted down from the usual 3/4" to 1/4". While a 3/8" thick baffle has only a moderate effect limited to downward deviations of 1-2dB a 3/4" thick baffle provides considerable downward deviations in the 4000-5500Hz range of up to 7 dB and should be avoided unless the tweeter is crossed over at 6000Hz or above. Note: the deviations described affect only the on-axis frequency response. The total output of the tweeter is essentially unaffected. Therfore, the audible effect of the baffle edge diffraction is not as great as the on-axis response deviations themselves would indicate. Even though klipsch uses a 6000Hz crossover I believe this effect is audible especially for any who listen on axis of the tweeter.The Z-brackets are a great solution for mounting the tweeter.This modification isn't a night and day type change but its effect is a cleaner and smoother sound in this range and thats what we are trying to achieve with alot of our tweeking. Can anyone tell me if the Klipschorn in the Audio/Nov. 1986 review had the Z-bracket modification and what drivers/crossover where in this Klipschorn?

Hello Everyone! For anyone that wants to add the Z brackets to KHorn or Belle it is possible to enlarge the tweeter hole without removing the grille cloth if you can use a hand router. I bought a pair of (79)KHorns in 1990 and decided to use the Z brackets after hearing the difference in the tweeter range between a Lascala and a Belle(with Z brackets)cabinet(same drivers were used in both). I had owned both and was pretty familiar with how they sounded. they were both used in the same room with the same equipment and I heard better clarity and smoothness in the tweeter's freq. range on the Belle and so I felt it would be well worth the effort to me!!! I removed the Tweeter/Squaker mounting board and then removed the horns from it.I then made a protective plate by using masking tape over some aluminum flashing and slide this between the grille cloth and baffle thus spacing the cloth away from the Tweeter hole and protecting it from damage.I then made a picture frame style guide and centered and clamped it to the baffle board so that my hand router could cut out the correct size hole.I made several passes till the hole was enlarged all the way through and then used flat black paint on the enlarged hole. I hope this helps anyone that wants to try this modification or maybe someone can come up with an even better idea? mikeb.

---------------- On 2/12/2004 10:58:12 PM John Albright wrote: Would you not have to remove / replace or reinstall the speaker cloth to inlarge the tweeter hole ? ( on a k-horn or belle ) Is this mod audible to the point of being noticable ? Yes and Yes. ---------------- Hello Everyone I've been visiting the forum since December and greatly enjoy it. First time I have posted so I hope it turns out right. I bought a pair of (79)KHorns in 1990 and decided to use the "Z" bracket mount for the tweeter. I was able to increase the Tweeter mounting hole without removing the grille cloth by removing the Tweeter/Squaker mounting board. I made two protective plates by using masking tape over some aluminum flashing and then sliding these between the grille cloth and baffle board to protect the cloth. I then made a picture frame style guide and centered and clamped it to the baffle board so that my hand router could cut out the correct size hole. I made several small passes till the hole was enlarged all the way through. I feel this modification adds clarity and smoothness in the tweeter's freq. range and was well worth the effort to me!!!