psg

On most subs, you can plug in only one input on a marked input instead of plugging both with the same mono signal. Plugging in both only gives you 3 dB of gain, but that doesn't change the max sound pressure that your sub can produce. It only means that you'll be setting your volume control a little lower on the sub.

Your US$1500 receiver won't let you send the low frequency content to both the mains and sub? That's surprising. Then set your mains to "small" and send it only to the sub.

Matching a Heresy to a pair LaScala's might be a good timbre match, but the 8 dB difference in efficiency is a bit of a killer. Having said that, theater reference is -17dB on my receiver with LaScala's as mains, and I rarely watch a movie above -25dB or so. So I could live with 8 dB. It's interesting that old LaScala docs state 104 db at 1W and 4 feet (and I remember seeing 106 dB stated for 1 meter). I object to the "voice" comparison to describe timbre. It's not a speaker's job to change the voice so, to me, timbre implies colouration. The current docs for LaScala state 53Hz-17kHz ±3dB. That's 6dB of variation across the board, equivalent to 4 times the power. The old docs said 45Hz-17kHz ±5dB, or a ten-fold variation in power. There's lot of room for coloration in either of those specs.

"To make a long story short, there is absolutely no way for me to get a preamp signal to the sub for my music listening" ??? Split the preamp output with a pair of cheap rca y's and send both left and right to the subwoofer. Didn't he just say "absolutely no way for me to get a preamp signal to the sub"? That surely means there are no pre-outs. :-) Money for a RSW-15 but no pre-outs on his system. That is somewhat surprising... I would think SVS are as good for music as they are for movies. For myself, I absolutely love my Hsu STF-3 on music. Peter

On 8/26/2004 2:34:27 PM firefighter wrote: PSG, Thanks for the reply to all the questions, There is one other sub that I am looking at, the SVS PB1-ISD, it is very similar to the HSU-STF3. Sooner or later I'm going to have to make a descision and quit analyzing it. Hi Firefighter, I don't know whether you have purchased anything yet, but I was thinking... Earlier you said your budget was $500. For US$399 + $25 shipping, you can get the smaller Hsu STF-2. It has the same low end as the larger STF-3 but has a lower max output (108 dB vs 114 dB). Since I'm only setting my volume level at less than 1/6, I'm sure that the STF-2 would still have ample volume to keep up with the LaScala's. Something to consider anyway. Peter

HSU recommended the VTF-3 Mk2 $699 SVS recommended either the 20-39 PC Plus $825 or the PB2-ISD @ $899 I've had a HSU STF-3 for about two weeks and I am thrilled with it. Complements the LaScala's very well. Peter

psg, I was reading on another forum and comments were made that the vtf-3 had a huge amount of port noise, did you find any with the stf-3, did you resolve the issue with the scratches, does it have any chest slamming qualities, and last but not least does the sub seem fast enough for the LaScalas? Sorry for all the questions but I'm looking hard at the same sub. Jack. Hi Jack and others. Sorry for not following-up on the thread. My home computer died and then I had to leave on a work-related trip. I did not notice any port noise at all, but I'm only running it at 1/6 on the volume level dial. The distributor emailed back about the scratches, apologizing and saying there were no B-stock units, and asked me to take a few digital pictures and send them along. A friend of mine is a drummer and he said he very rarely experiences the "live chest slam" on the kick drum with sound systems, but he does with mine and it sounded very realistic. :-) It sounds great to my ears with the LaScalas. Peter

I received the Hsu STF-3 today. I unpacked it and was a bit disappointed to find a deep half-inch to an inch scratch on the front-right edge as well as a scuff mark in the front panel. Did I get a B-stock with retail price? I set the volume to mid-level and set my receiver to something low, like -30dB or so, then put on Darla hitting the aquarium with her finger on Finding Nemo. My wife swears that the patio furniture on the outdoor concrete patio was shaking. I was in trouble. There was no way that sub was staying now. The whole house shakes! I tuned the volume level with a calibration DVD and SPL meter and it turns out I need to turn down to volume to a bit below 1/6. So maybe the sub is too powerful for my room. Then, I tried music. I had tried a few subs last week for a few days, including a small Paradigm PDR-10. There's no comparison at all. I could hear things even with the receiver volume at -40dB that I have never heard before. The first track of Sting's "Brand new Day" has bass I never knew even existed. The "Heel freezes over" DVD never sounded so good! The sub is staying! Fantastic! I'm only concerned about those scratches...

boomer9911 wrote: Paradigm with La Scala's...did I miss something here..enlighten me.... I borrowed a small 10" Paradigm PDR-10 to try out when I started thinking about adding a sub. Volume calibration with an SPL meter and a calibration DVD lead to setting the volume knob at mid-level on the PDR-10. I therefore assumed that it shouln't clip on LFE movie content, ever. But I guess a full-voltage blast at very low frequency might be too much; I don't know. I'll admit I never pushed it to the limit, as I never listen to a movie at 0dB setting on my receiver (-13dB is theater reference on my setup and I typically watch movies around -20dB).

Jack, It should be here tomorrow or so. It was shipped yesterday. Hsu and SVS subwoofers are highly regarded in other forums such as http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/8666.html and that is what I'm basing my choice on. SVS are not available in Canada, so I'd have to hassle with customs and such. Hsu sells direct on the internet (http://www.hsuresearch.com/) but they have a Canadian distributor who are shipping one to me for C$799.50 + C$20 freight + GST = C$876.87. In the US, you can get one for $599 + $50 freight = $649 (or C$848). You can find a revire here: http://www.onhometheater.com/product/20040401.htm I haven't heard the CHT-15 and was more weary of buying it without hearing than the Hsu. The Future Shop store had the XHT-12 on the floor, but not the CHT-15. I wasn't very impressed with the CHT-12 (in the poor environment that it was in); it sounded boomy and monotonic to me on music (Holly Cole). I'll come back to this thread with a mini-review after I have played with it a bit. Why is the Boston not heard when you raise the volume? Is it topping out? Is this on movies or music? What frequency are you crossing over at for music? I would think that setting a sub at mid-way on its volume dial would mean that it would never top off on LFE material played at reference levels on the receiver. Am I wrong in assuming this? I found that matching the volume on even a small Paradigm PDR-10 to the LaScalas left the sub at about mid-way on its volume dial.

Thanks for the vote of re-inforcement. I'll likely be ordering the Hsu this evening via email. Peter

Translation for others out there: The paradigm PW2200 goes deeper than the RSW12 and costs less. There are dealers in Montreal who can give me a good price on it too. Of course, his version used slang. :-) Thanks Ear, but I figure the best price I could get on the PW2200 is about C$1000 with taxes. I heard it at the local Stereo Plus outlet (who ask C$1000 plus taxes) and it was the worst audition ever. It was booming on regular dialog! Granted, I should go back with a better salesperson... Still, that C$125 more than the Hsu. I think I can get a better bang for the buck with a Hsu STF-3. Plus, I find it annoying to have to "deal" to get a fair price or else pay 20% extra. But that's just me. So if Paradigm ask me why I don't buy Canadian, I'd answer that they should sell for the lowest price instead of trying to dupe unsuspecting clients. :-) How would you compare the PW-2200 to the Hsu STF-3? Peter

Thanks for the RW-12 offer. That is indeed a good deal and I wouldn't mind a blemish on the side. But I'm really considering a Hsu STF-3 at this point, for C$875 with taxes and shipping included. I must admit that the specs are very similar! And I haven't heard either of them either; I'm just guessing based on reviews. Anyone out there can comment of the RW-12 versus the Hsu STF-3? Thanks!

I listenned to a RW-10 today at a local store. It was very convincing and rock-solid on LFE ("Ice Age" beginning) but I'm unsure about music content. I should have brought a known CD but I was just driving by and dropped in. The bass was a little monotone but that could have been the music itself. For the price difference with the RW-12, I'd probably go with the RW-12 if it's rated as well on music as the RW-10. That's if I go with Klipsch instead of the other choices. I could get the RW-12 in canada for C$899 + taxes (total of US$775), or mail-order from Brand Namez for US$429 with as-yet unknown shipping and duties which almost certainly would be much less than the Canadian price. The Velodyne CHT-15 still seems like the killer deal for C$775 shipped to my door... Peter

Thanks for your post, I wouldn't feel right ordering from Future Shop knowing I'd be sending it back regardless. Regarding your question, I'd put the sub at the position of your chair (moving the chair). I guess it should face the spot where you'd end up putting the sub. There's another mail-order possibility, although I don't know how expensive it would be: Adire Audio Rava. Does anyone have an opinion on it? Thanks

Hi Jack, I was looking at the CHT-15 through etronics.com who sell it for US$459.99. It's a borderfree.com associated site, so I can it to Canada easily. The older CT-150 had "current sensing feedback", said to be less expensive to make than "servo", while the CHT-15 has "Current sensing servo". So perhaps they are different after all. The older CT-150 weights 72 lbs and the CHT-15 weights 83 lbs, so they are not the exact same product. I can't put C$1500 on a sub either (much less US$1500), and I might well get the CHT-15. I'm going to see if I can hear one next weekend in Quebec City. I'll hopefully have a better idea then. Peter

In another thread, someone was buying the JBL NORTHRIDGE E SERIES E250P which is US$250. No kind words for it, I imagine? How about going for a smaller (faster?) and cheaper 10-inch model from Paradigm, Mission or Velodyne?

those subs are basically the same. Okay. Then I'm disappointed. :-( What is critical with subwoofers on horn loaded Heritage Klipsch is SPEED. And speed at low frequency is hard to come by. Most cheaper subs don't have sufficient speed at low output.....this gets very expensive. The ideal? Likely a 15" REL sub (about 2.5 to 3K USD). Now you see why I have no sub on my Belles..... No matter what you do, look for a return policy, or at least the ability to resell at minimal loss. I tried several approaches before finding good subbage for my Cornwalls, and you may well end up trying a few until you get the proper match. Why is speed harder at low frequencies? It's moving slower after all... Moving more air? At this price point, the PW-2200 is a good bet. See also the HSU VTF-3. The Hsu are hard to get in Canada. And it would be easier to negociate a good price locally for Paradigm if I could quote a low price from another store. If you can do a DIY project on this, that's the best of both worlds - save money by building it yourself while getting excellent performance. Any recomendations in the DIY arena? Thanks! Peter

Thanks guys. The price of the CHT-15 would be total through borderfree.com. I ordered a h/k avr-325 last winter using the service and was very satisfied. No surprises. Audible Nectar, you mention the Velodyne "150". Is that the older CT-150 or the current CHT-15? They are similar but not the same, as evidenced by formica's link. I currently have a Paradigm PDR-10 on loan until Friday and had a Magnat Alpha 20A for a few days. Either of them extend the low end of the La Scalas a bit on stereo music without drawing attention to themselves. I'm hoping the CHT-15 would do the same, extended to still lower bass. Setting the receiver to send < 80 Hz to the sub didn't leave that much room for error. So I'm still undecided. There's also the Mission m5as to keep in mind, if my lead on a good price pans out. Thanks again, Peter

Thanks guys, The local stores (in Rimouski) always quote high prices and don't bargain very much. :-( It there a Canadian store I can point them to to get them to lower their price? Still, even if I did manage to get the PW-2200 for C$850, that brings the taxed total to C$977. This is C$200 more than ordering the Velodyne CHT-15 from the States. This would be a borderfree.com total price (Applicable duties, GST and shipping to the door, all included), so I'm not worried about any hidden extras. The PW-2200 goes down to 18 Hz at -3dB while the CHT-15 goes down to 23 Hz. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I was out of town yesterday and visited my mother. I borrowed her Paradigm PDR-10 and played with it last night. It works quite well to extend the bass on the La Scalas for music. The Paradigm specs say it goes down to 27 Hz at -3dB but I could not hear _anything_ out of it below 30 Hz from a HT test DVD. I setup the sub with an SPL meter and ended up with the level half-way up. I'm thinking a bigger sub will provide lower frequency extension than the PDR-10, and will keep up and playing the La Scalas at 0dB on the receiver if I ever need to. So... Any strong advice against getting the Velodyne CHT-15 for $200 less than a PW-2200? Thanks again!

The aim is to extend bass for a pair of La Scala speakers in addition to HT use. I'll be using a h/k avr325 receiver which allows me to send low frequency signals (< 40 or 60 or 80 Hz) from the main channels to the sub in addition to the .1 digital output. In Canada, I'm looking at: Paradigm PDR-10 (10") C$500 Paradigm PW-2100 (12") C$1000 Velodyne CHT-12 (12") C$750 Velodyne CHT-15 (15") C$1200 (or C$775 shipped, w/ taxes, mail-ordered from the US!) Mission ms10 (10") C$500 Mission m5as (12") C$1300 (Might be able to get it for $1000) Klipsch RW10 (10") C$769 Klipsch RW12 (12") C$900 (or a few hundred less, mail-ordered from the US) I'm unsure whether to go 10 or 12 inch. I've heard that 10 inch models are better musically. So far, I have only briefly heard the Paradigm PDR-10 and PW-2100 on a movie trailer (strangely, the receiver was set to Pro Logic II instead of Dolby Digital; I didn't ask about it). The 10-inch PDR-10 sounded good and the 12-inch PW-2100 was producing annoying bass when you'd think none should be heard. It deserves another listen with a different salesperson (in Dolby Digital). The bargain so far is the Velodyne CHT-15, and it might keep up with the La Scala as well! But is it good for music? Opinions anyone?