Kriton
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Posts posted by Kriton
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Mike,
I talked to Roy quite a bit about this, and he told me that the inside
of the CWIII is completely covered with foam, all except the motor
board. I was not sure whether this included the top of the shelf,
but I did not put any foam on the top of the shelf, because the top of
the cab was covered, so I figured it might not be necessary.
The foam sheets fit like a glove by the by, and required minimal easy
cutting...I have the crossover covered at this point, and I just wasn't
sure about the foam directly on the crossover - I did cut out the foam
for the 2x4 brace AND the transformer (transducer) what-ever-the-hell
the standing gizmo is...using a heavy stapler to attach...going easy
and will be reversible...
Going to put it back together tonight, will let you know what I find...
Bruce
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After going to Hope in July, and talking with the engineering staff, I
decided to make my last (hopefully) modification to the CWII's and I
lined the cabs with some foam dampening material from Parts Express
(eggcrate stuff).
For those of you who didn't read the CW III thread, Mr. Delgado ended
the controversy about the dampening material in the CW; the CWIII has
the same foam inside it like the RF-7 - when I pointed out to him that
the CWII did not come with any kind of foam, he appeared to be shocked,
saying "it needed it", putting that controversy to rest for me at any
rate.
I guess the next question that I have is, do I cover up the crossover
with foam? For those of you who don't know, the crossover on the
CWII is attached with screws to the back of the speaker just above the
woofer magnet, but below the 2x4 front to back brace...will it matter
if I place the foam over the crossover - either heat, sound wave
reflection, anything else? Wouldn't be difficult to cut the foam
around it, but I would like the foam all around if possible.
What do you guys think?
K
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Nope, not overkill...my room is smaller than that with 8' ceilings, and the RF-7's kick fanny.
That center is pretty large from what I have seen, placement is just a matter of getting the stuff set-up right.
Will be a kick a system, I am upgrading to full R*-7 system one component at a time...
K
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Hey,
I fyou are looking for some feedback on the Sunfire stuff, go over to
avsforum and check out the Sunfire thread...there are a few folks who
are upset at Bob because fo apparent lack of software support for the
early models - The most recent TGIV has been good for me, and that
thread would indicate that you can upgrade with little problem from III
to IV with a flash software update maybe? Check it out.
I like the TGIV, it has a simple interface, it separates the channels
well, has inputs and outputs galore, and is a solid peice of
equipment. I lvoe the remote, and thisnk it was a damn fine
purchase. If you keep your eyes open, you may be able to find a
deal like mine, for whic I paid for a flawless "demo" less than half
retail with the full warranty, but that is still some cash. There
was a scathing blasting review of the Sunfire TGIII out there, it was
an extreme over the top attack of the component, which you will find if
you Google it...it soudned personal, not professional, I will warn
you...I bought the stuff anyways, haven't looked back.
My opinion, is that you cannot go wrong with the older Sunfire if you
can get it cheap; can't talk about the others, but I am keeping my SF
gear...
I had looked at the Outlaw, and I just couldn't get excited about it -
it has the apparent features, but some folks ( I think from this forum)
said they weren't impressed, look for the thread...do the research
before you buy, several good forums with reviews.
Word of mouth is a good, but not fool proof indicator...ask MrMcGoo
from this forum what he thinks of his Sunfire stuff, he is much more
knowledgeable than I.
FWIW,
K
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Hey Mike, I got a pair of HII's that are pretty beat up, at least,
nothing I can fix with sanding (couple of corners beat, veneer coming
up on corner, etc.)...
THey aren;t as bad as some I've seen, and they sound good...let me know what you think, or at least what you want to pay!
Bruce
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Uh, fantail, where are you? Might make a difference as to what is available, who will look if we knew where you were?
K
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Hey, I saw the following ad here locally in the DFW ForSale
newsgroup...looks pretty interesting, anyone know how these things
would sound? What about the horn, any good?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
TS940 series
Dual 15" woofers, DH1A 2" drivers on 940 horns. XEQ-504 passive crossover
Removed from EMI/Capitol records theater, Extreemly powerful sound system.
100db 1 w/meter
link to EV information
http://www.electrovoice.com/Electrovoice3/files.nsf/Pages/ts940D_EDS/$file/TS940DEDS.pdf
Like new, all original drivers, pick-up in Mckinney Texas $2200
Frank
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
K
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Wait a sec, I don't get this.
This is a legitimate question, by a person who owns and loves, by his own account, Klipsch speakers.
He is asking a simple question about a brand of sub-woofers which I
have discussed here, as have many others, in comparison to other
products in the SVS line, as well as how it will stack up to the
Klipsch 15 sub, which is useful information for all of us.
Why are you giving him a hard time, and since when have any of you become moderators of this forum?
I appreciate the question, have appreciated the helpful answers, and would tell the rest of you to get bent.
K
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$2500.00
k
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OK, now I get it...I wasn't sure what the fuss was about.
Yes, the RF is more expensive than the RC NEW, but every now and then
you can find the lone RF, in a town nearby, say for very little money,
which just happens to be my case right now...but to set this thing
vertically, and try to put the TV over it, would not only cause me to
crane my neck up, but I would have to mount the CRT (not flat screen,
mores the pity) five foot in the air....a daunting task by any
standard...
I might just have to try it! Thanks!
K
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Uh, OK, so what is the final call here?
IF you had to, and IF it were available, could you put an RF-7 horizontally to act as a center channel?
Why couldn't you do this (use RF-7 horizontally)? IF you had to
do this, what is the down side, apart from moving the tweeter around?
K
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Hmmm...you know what, I listen for the same things. The vocals
need to sound natural and the snares need to pop. I really listen
for these above everything else...all fo the following is to my ears of
course...
The CW3 drum pop was crisp as hell, and separated from the rest of the
music, as it should be since the percussion isn't coming from the
guitars or the voices. I could literally hear the stage delay I
think from the placement fo the different instruments on stage. I
found the transitions and dynamics to be incredible, with James Taylor
playing, you have a lot of loud and soft, and many transitions - and I
think all were superb.
The killer thing about my CW2's, IMO, is the way they are almost too
real. The strong suit for these things is the vocal midrange, you
can hear everything, and it can be really very ugly if the voice
singing isn;t very good...my CW's will show up a mediocre singer or
more likely a highly synthesized voice in a heartbeat. The CW3
was no different, you could hear every change of timbre, every slightly
flat entrance, every nuance - making the passages seem to me to be
"ultra real", taking the music from smoothed pap to actual live
performance. I felt (with Hotel California and James Taylor) like
I was there...close your eyes and you are in the fifth row center,
getting a contact buzz from the guy in front of you with the dube,
holding onto your beer, and living the moment.
The only thing better was actually being on stage mopping the brow of the drummer, and that was jubilee.
Do I think these are better than my 2's? Man, I have to say
yes...the CW3 sounded better to me, new crossovers and all...maybe the
new damping material I intend to put in them will help, but for now...I
<will> get a pair, just a matter of time, the stars, adn some
damned marketing on Klipsch part.
K(
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Interesting! Was that the general consensus on the H3, that it
sounded similar to the CW3...I couldn't disagree more...I thought the
CW3 was much wider and fuller in presence. The wife independently
agreed, it was a full step up, I thought. She thought the LSII's
were rather "harsh" as she put it, and preferred the CW's too...
I don't think harsh is how I would put it - I thought the LS in
comparison sounded, well ...muffled? is that a correct
term? No, maybe more laid back, smoother, not as in your face as
the CW - which is what I really like about my CWII's...hell the
quasi-jubilee's were more forward that the LS's, or am I just way off
base here once again? I thought the jubilee's and the CW3 made
the music sound more "live" - You could have reached out and slapped ol
James Taylor in that one set...but maybe I am partial, the room wasn't
favorable, etc...
Now as far as looks, the LS's were gorgeous...but I just think I would pay 5k plus for what I heard...
I would like to hear what other folks thought after letting it sit for a few days.
K (
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Mike! It was a treat meeting you, by the by, and thanks for
adding the specifics on the technical aspects fo the CWIII's - I was
obviously more interested in the differences between the II's and the
III's - did they raise the woofer that much? I thought is was
only 2-3 inches, but it makes sense now that I look at my own picts - I
know it just looked pretty funny...but sounded damn incredible.
Now don't get me wrong, the Heresy III's were impressive, and rocked -
but the depth and width of the Cornwall just blew them away.
I also didn't know they had re-engineered the woofer, but that too
would make sense. The bass response I thought was much tighter
and focused.
By the way, those of you who went to Indy last year, the CWIII that you
heard was NOT the present design of the CWIII, the woofer on the cab
you heard had not at that time been RAISED to get rid of the standing
wave problem...so this was really a different animal...at least that is
what I was told. I will get my picts up tonight.
Hey Mike, I didn't notice, but the CWIII is also biwireable, isn't it?
B
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Fresh back from Hope, and we learned a lot about the new CWIII!
First it sounds fantastic...we heard the Heresy III first, and it
sounded really good, bass was very respectable this time around.
The Corn was second, then the La Scala II...and frankly, of the three I
really like the Cornwall the best, but I know others disagreed with
me. The Cornwall III had fantastic bass and was as tight as it
could be, very clear and crisp in the mids and highs. They only
had one of each speaker in the listening room, so I can't say anything
about soundstage, but the open way these things sounded, I can only
assume the imaging would be unbelievable. The CWII's to me
sounded very up front and live, and the Scala were more laid back,
heavier bass, but just not as bright IMHO.
Now here is the interesting part, you will be seeing pictures of this
thing; according to Roy and the team, the Corn suffers from an inherent
standing wave problem, so they moved the woofer up at least two inches
toward the mid-horn from its present placement in the cabinet, in order
to solve this problem. This makes the CWIII look strange from
what we are used to seeing.
Also, the interior of the CWIII is lined with foam on the top both
sides, and the rear panel, the same acoustic foam that is in the RF-7;
when told that the CWII did not have any acoustic treatment inside the
cabinet, Roy was surprised...and stated that it should have had it (he
referred to the diaper in the CW I's - but was surprised the 2 didn't
have anything)...SO
there is the definitive answer from the man. When I asked him
whether putting the foam in the CW would change the cabinet
volume, he said
that it wouldn't change the volume due to the way the foam would deal
with the waves. He seemed to indicate that the foam would tighten
up the bass, and improve the overall characteristics of the
speaker. There are also **two** 2x4 braces just above the woofer
on the right and left , from the motorboard to the back panel which
would make the case alot more rigid.
Now the bad news...apparently, the CWIII is not coming out any time
soon. While it would make sense, and the price point would
fit perfectly between the Heresy III, and the La Scala II, the company
wants to make sure that the HIII and the LSII sell well with a new
marketing push (yes you heard it here). I will believe that when
I see it...I am afraid I went on at length about how Klipsch is really
losing out on Heritage sales because of the lack of any kind of
marketing. I think the folks were tired of hearing it from me,
but good grief, what are they thinking in Indy? When was the last ime any of you saw the heritage line in a showroom?
The CWIII sounded amazing, they really have spent the time and come out
with something very special here, IMHO. I am already saving my
pennies.
Picts will follow.
BB
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I can't tell you folks how much I appreciate how much you aceepted my
wife and I on this little oddysey to Hope, it was a great road trip,
and I really enjoyed the Klipsch team. The factory tour was cool
as hell, and listening to the new makes was an eye opener. I really
enjoyed talking to the Hope gang, I learned all kinds of market share
information and things that really round out the whole Klipsch
experience. It was a great pleasure meeting you all, and Heather
enjoyed herself thoroughly; thank you all for making her feel welcome.
David, Kaiser was looking for his red component wires that we found
last night at the Goat Roper, he will be getting in touch with
you. I realy enjoyed Woo's Cornwalls, just made me want to get
back to my own!
Hope to see you all again next year in Indy, I will defintely be there!
Now lets dish on what we saw!
Bruce
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OK, good to know - no open containers. Not that I would be doing that anyways, but still good to know.
Dog, the beer will already be on ice, trust me; since someone mentioned
no cheap beer, going to stop by World Market and get a few choice
international favs. Got the cooler already out; might have a beer
tasting on the way up, making wife drive...
This leads to next question; as I am leaving after work, and probably
won't be there till late, where exactly is the Klipsch museum we are
supposed to meet at on Saturday morning, just in case we don't hook up
tonight? Are we going to plan to meet for breakfast somewhere?
These were the specifics I requested many long posts ago...I don't have
a clue what is in or around Hope, and my GPS software doesn't anything
Klipsch, so...Ya'll be safe now...
Was doing some research on Klipsch the man, and came across this
interesting little article on the man from 1980, he sounds like he was
a hoot.
http://www.audioimport.nl/heritage/reviewsHERITAGE/arkansasspeaker.html
K
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Of course, with the plastic horns, mine didn't ring when you thumped
them, but I suspect the same effect was happening with them as was
yours Colter...and I agree that the difference was heard at moderate to
higher levels on my Corns -
BY the way, when we get an e-mail that someone has responded to the
thread, when we click on the thread URL in the e-mail, why doesn;t it
take us directly to the responsive e-mail, instead of the top of the
thread? That is VERY annoying.
K
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UH, ok, I for one would be most appreciative with some vinyl for
comparison. Hate to ask you to bring it, but if you are game, you
bet! I will listen with great interest and BEER.
By the way, what is the Arkansas feeling these days on open
containers? I know this is Arkansas, but with all the political
correctness going on these days, I figured maybe they have institued
prohibition or something as a response?
Anyone taking time to go to Bill Clinton's museum, as this IS his home
town? (Just curious who to make fun of...before I get there).
K
P.S. - I would bring some extra cables, maybe some balanced XLR
connectors and rca's just to be sure...if you got em, bring em, we are
going to have what sounds like a slew o'speakers at this shindig - and
I don;t want to be making late night Radio Shack raids for accessories!
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Yeah well see, I have **composite** horns, (CWII's) that I
caulked...and what I heard was not necessarily "ringing" it was more of
a buzz. I don't know if it was a sympathetic vibration or what,
but I do know that I could tell a difference immediately. The
caulked horn (mid) was much clearer and there was just a lack of noise
with the caulking. I put the stuff on my tweeter too, and while I
could not hear as much of a difference, I am convinced that the tweeter
is not as "bright" either, which I would equate to getting rid of more of the nasty
"buzzing". Horns secure to motorboard too, thanks.
I think something changed, and for the better. If you haven't
heard it, you can't say. I have, at length, with my Corns, in my room, with my set-up and that is just my
lowly opinion. I would be more than happy to demonstrate.
K
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Hey, to answer the original question...
I looked for alternatives to rope caulk, and none seemed to have the
advantages of the caulk - I did not consider Dynamat, only because I
could not apply it in the same fashion as rope caulk, and it was more
expensive.
I ahve read Bob Crites signature request not to put the caulk on horns,
because it is a pain to get off, but really, I took all the caulk off
one of my horns and redid it recently and with an exacto knife and a
little time in front of the tube, it cut off easily and came off
relatively cleanly. The mess that is left can be easily wiped up
with some sparing use of goof off, and they clean up slick (just be
aware of the fumes from the cleaner - rot your brain and make you fly
like you have wings).
Now the other statement by Bob that I read about the oil seeping from
the caulk, I just havent found to be accurate, at least for the short
time I have had mine caulked (1 year +). I have had no oil
seepage that I can ascertain so far, but I did take the precaution of
opeing up my cases and wrapping light gauze around the stuff, to keep
it from sagging or deciding to weep. It seems to be that a nice
saran wrap job over the caulk might have a better effect, and won't
disturb the damping properties. (Ooooh and it comes in different colors
for your PC case modders - jk).
For those who say it is all bunkum, I did an extensive a/b caulked and
not caulked (with my wife -pro musician and great ear, as the blind test
subject) and she picked up the differences right away without
prompting...so YMMV.
K
EDITED TO ADD: It is just me or is johnnyholiday completely incomprehensible?
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Hey, speaking of speaker wire, as I am driving, is there anything else
in the way of accessories or anyother power related items that need to
be brought?
How bought a surge suppressor power strip, or extra speaker wire, or
something? I would have to tear apart my system, but I will bring
what I can. Any ideas? I could borrow a DVD-Karoke machine,
i have a feeling Colter has a lovely singing voice (just kidding).
Hey Seadog, I will be pulling in probably 9-10, and I will be looking
for the clan downstairs. Uh, I will bring MORE beer, and some
other stuff.
Somebody might want to fill in the front desk of the HI with an
itinerary and answers to frequently asked Klipsch audio questions...(SS
v Tube, NOSValves v. Neo and the like)...
Looking forward to the road trip!
Later,
K
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Hey Bob,
How would these new crossovers differ from what you have already done for my CWII's recently?
(Love the improved sound by the by)
K
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Nevermind- Trey answered most of my questions deep in new thread. Sorry.
Looking forward to it!
K
Cab Dampening for Cornwall II
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Huh? WTH does that have to do with the question? Man you are just not right.
K