6foot8

Hey All, The amp we used was a 750B, which is only 225 watts\ch @ 8 ohms. The 100 series like the one PWK used blew an output cap about a month ago and I fully expected to have it back by now. The 210s used in the Jubilee setup are infact a much better amp than the 750B. If we were to have used the 100 series, the mids and highs would have been cleaner and more detailed...how much so compared to the VRDs I can't say because as Mike already mentioned that amp was in the shop. I suspect that the smaller BGWs would have sounded better in the mids\highs than the 750B, but not as "luscious" in the mids and highs as Mikes VRDs. The bottom end would have been noticeably less than the 750B too but I suspect still somewhat more authoritative than the VRDs. The 210 series which are 100 watts per side would have had the same mid\high quality of the 100 series and more bottom end...still not as much as the 750B. I did not want to use the 750B because it is not designed to use it in that application, it was designed as a low frequency driver for Universal back in 1974. So without restating everything and puttting too fine a point on things I would agree with everything Mike has reported. Thanks MIke for comming over it was a most enjoyable day. I hope I have the pleasure of hearing your rig at your place some time in the future!

Wow...I didn't think anyone would remember!

I have a CD with him and Cleo Laine in which he drowns her out, which is a shame because her voice was the best part of that CD for sure.

Yep, big room...this was my problem. As long as I was listening to something like the Brandenburg Concertos no sub needed. Anything heavier than than that and a sub was necessary.

Mike I have a Thorens 125 MKII with a good cartridge as well as a CD player.

and if they do can I have a pair for free?

I planned on steaks. We can eat before 2 if you like. I don't drink, but my wife and most of my friends do and you certainly can if you like. See you Saturday!

Certainly he can come...but I ain't buying steaks for the whole crowd! []

Hey Mike, Are we still on for this Saturday around noon?

I already inquired about the cost of the 18s. I doubt a test drive would be feasible...but I'd be willing to bet they would blend in well.

He Edwin, I would run the La Scalas right up to their rated power on occaision but never over. I have never damaged a speaker with the exception of an Altec 811 driver 20 plus years ago. I probably don't push the Jubes much harder than the La Scalas to be honest, because yes they do get loud enough most of the time for me. This project was really about enhancing the quality of the sound at any level. I wanted to "hear" the musicians in my room. I guess I have accomplished what I set out to do. IMO they sound better, but the degree to which is certainly a personal judgement.

Thanks Daddy Dee!

You are not aware of the Big Man's history on the Forum. He was initiated with fire, and got a good several years worth of (misguided) abuse within his first day or two. It's ok I quickly learned that my opinion was just that...my opinion. I was just trying to say that by the time we have reached the point that most of us have (mucho $$$$ spent on our gear) we are probably well into the point of diminishing marginal returns and the differences in the improvements now are much smaller than when we traded in our tabletop all in one unit for our first pair of used horns and a small amp we picked up at the local used electronics store.

Yeah, I can get caught up in the liveliness of these debates just as much as anyone can. It's tough sometimes to remain calm when the veins in your head have popped out and are visible throbbing. Kinda like talking politics in a mixe crowd, it can take on a personal feeling real quick. Mike Lindsey from Oviedo is comming over to my place April 1st to check things out. Don't anyone be jealous please, I am just crazy enough to do that sort of thing without hearing them first. As it turns out I am very pleased with how they sound. The don't "slam" like a set of EV 18 subs but I knew that would be the case. The sound balanced and very pleasing. The have plenty of good solid bass but they too are only rated to 40Hz. I listen only to 2 channel stereo, so no movie explosions or stuff like that. I guess I am probably getting most of what I am supposed to be hearing without a sub. However, with that said...and again I must be crazy...I have started to talk to Chuck at Klipsch about a set of Pro 18's to finish this project off...we will see.

I know this topic should really be posted under general questions, but since most of the bickering and arguing transpires in the 2 channel audio world I'll put it here. Let me first say that I am as guilty as anyone is when it comes to kicking sand in someone else's face when I disagree or get my little feelings hurt and feel the need to attack. For this I apologize if i offended anyone (and yes Meagain this means you too). As soon as 2 audiophiles start talking Hi Fi more than 2 opinions are certainly bound to surface. It's kind of like economics or politics...it's easy to feel snubbed by an oposing philosophy. I hope I can for one shy away from attacking those with dissenting or opposing opinions in the future because it does not really matter what someone else thinks of my system...so long as I am content. Isn't a good bit of this really subjective anyway, I mean there is no such thing as a common frame of reference in this business...it is impossible for others to hear what we hear. They may say this is better than that and we may say that that is better than this... but in the end each of us hears this and that differently. Just my 2 cents worth anyway.

Bay City Rollers "Staurday Night" or on the serious side John Denver's "Readjustment Blues."

And what happens when you push it up over that level? Or are we talking with the Jubes? Craig The Jubes sound fine when pushed up to 120 dBs at the driver...never had them higher than that. The La Scalas do not sound very good at those levels.

Yup your figures are correct. But with music you will never have continous 121db levels. I would venture to say if your hitting a continous of about 110db a one meter with most music your staying within the clean output of the speakers on peaks. Just out of curiousity have you had your hearing checked lately? Not to be meant as a slam mind you but I have to wonder about someone you states they have listened at 120db continous that is freakin loud!! Like way beyond concert levels. Craig Craig, thanks for clearing that up for me. Yes my hearing is exceptionally good. However, I rarley listen at those levels. I usually am only experiencing peaks in the 105 range at my listening distance. I only like the ability to generate those levels should I desire (mostly when I'm showing off) but I seldom ever do.

Jeff...I don't have it but if MIke does we can certainly give it a spin.

Craig, I must be missing something here. I thought it would take approximatley 64 watts continuous to achieve 122 dBs given that the speakers could still be 104 dB @ 1m\2.83 volt efficient. I must be misinformed, I had no idea those amps would put out that kind of power! I may have to unrack that big BGW after all...[6]

Craig...will those amps of yours produce 100 watts rms?

We will Jeff. I was just kidding Max. Most of my BGWs are all racked downstairs with the other system and that is where they are going to stay. I only have two spares both very moderatley powered.

As I think (hope) I said in my earlier post - these values will vary with the room. They can be either higher or lower as there is always a mix of sonic reflections and absorption from furnishings etc. Of course - we will all giggle like silly schoolgirls if the VRD goes louder than your current amps.[] Max Max Max Max Max...if I have to pull out the 300 watt BGW 750G to win the loudness contest I'll trot that sucker out![]

Mike which spl meter do you have? Are you a or c weighting? I have the digital meter but I am not sure how reliable the readings are. My BGWs have meters and I know the efficieny ratings on the speakers so I have attempted to verify the readings by running the speakers until I get 111 dBs a few feet from the driver itself on the mids and then see if the amps are averaging 1 watt. This assumes the meters on the amps are correctly calibrated but it is the only way I know how to see if the SPLs the meter says I am hearing is close.

Hey Max, I don't recall ever getting 110 dBs at the listening position in the large room with the La Scalas. However the 402 MF in the Jubilee is rated at 111 dBs at one meter with 2.83 volts of input power.