Jeff Matthews

Good for you, meagain, I think you're spot-on. Now, go try that amp I was telling you about. [] FYI, this amp issue has migrated to the "What's headroom sound like" thread.

Also, mdeneen, you still might be confusing distortion with loss of dynamics. You lose dynamics as you turn up the volume and only certain aspects of the song will get louder - but not all. When the flute starts sounding on even keel with a kick drum, it's all out of whack and rackety. You might think it's distortion, but it's not. It's out of proportion and sounds like loud, ear-bleeding crud.

Mdeneen, draw graphs 'til your heart's content. At these high-power outputs I listen to - and they are high - the music is still extremely clear and well-defined.

Allan, that's the first "no-nonsense" observation you have made on this topic. That's right on the money.

No, Max. It means you don't need a car that does the 5000 rpm if you don't want to go 150mph. So, if you drive 55 in such a car, you are wasting some of the car's qualities. You might prefer to waste those qualities, and if so, that's fine. I think wasting some of a car's qualities is different when you start analogizing to speakers. Why waste the qualities that Klipsch put in? You won't get in a wreck, and they will sound just fine - even at MUCH higher volumes. The problem is people can't imagine that the higher volumes won't sound "overboard loud." When you crank that 30-watter, it might sound louder than cranking a 300-watter at 100-watts. Because when you crank that 30-watter, it gets AWFULLY rackety. It's the racket that people think defines a limit of loudness. The news is that it does not. It defines the limit of loudness people WANT to hear. If you can crank 100-watts through a 300-watt amp, it won't be rackety, and people will not consider it to be as "loud" as the racket you get when cranking a 30-watt amp toward its limit.

Allan: Nonsense! MH: If only you were as "sweet" as those tube amps. Talk about harsh. Man! Ben, check out that Crown. There are alot of folks on this forum that think we equate loud with dynamics. When it is explained to them, they go to another thread and start acting like they didn't learn anything there. It's either hard-headedness or baiting - - or both. Your sound is fully dynamic until you turn the volume up to a point where the amp cannot deliver the full spectrum of power needed to maintain the dynamics. Then, as you keep turning up the volume, the softer notes get louder, while the louder notes do not. Too much of that makes the sound all garbled. The "nay-sayers" to this are the guys who spent way too much on an amp and have still never heard what good Klipsch can do. Klipsch doesn't meet specs of handling 100 watts continuous and 400 watt peaks for nothing - or should I say, so you can MAX them out with your 30-watt amp. If you think you're even close at 30-watts because it sounds loud, get a life. The only reason it sounds loud when cranked with a 30-watt amp is because the dynamics are lost and that's awfully loud for something that sounds like crap. .... Kind of like we can listen to a tuned TV station easier at a high volume than we can listen to static at the same volume. It's some sort of goofy "audiophile mentality" that makes people want to brag about how they can do so much more with so much less. I'm not sure where that came from, but it wasn't experience. Klipsch made their Heritage to handle 100 watt continuous and 400 watt peaks. That was no accident, and it was meant to be used. Seems half around here have never seen the top end of the speaker's qualities actually used.

My statement re: amp is definitive because I've been there where you are. I used to have a very good 90w/ch Marantz integrated amp/pre-amp. Easily as good as what you're running, if not a little better. Ain't no comparison to feeding Klipsch the raw power they gobble up. And I have never modified my '81 Corns that I've had for 20 years. Wherever I lived, whatever room size, whatever room configuration - I just plug-n-play. The Klipsch Heritage just soak up that power and give it all back - not so much in loudness - but in dynamics. When the woofer increases in loudness, it doesn't screech - it's a woofer. Nor is it shrill, it's a woofer. Getting that bass to pound real good is a key to dynamics. I'd venture you have good bass, but not great bass. You'd be surprised. A good woofer pushes frequencies that are higher than you think. And when you increase loudness, if you aren't driving enough power, your squawkers start catching up disproportionatley louder than your woofers - thus, making the earbleeders people speak of. That's my theory. Hopefully, for you, I'm wrong. That way, you'll save money and not buy an amp. But I think I'm right.

Duke, you have lights? Oooooooh!

Meagain. Like you, I have AA's, too. You have '81's. I have '76's. The difference is I claim my equipment is perfectly satisfactory to me in sound, while you claim you're missing something. I think your amp is deficient because I've been where you've been in terms of amps. But we have the crossover gurus telling us it's crossovers. I took Rick's offer, and I see you did, too. This will make an interesting challenge, and the results will be an interesting thread. My prediction is no "night and day" difference, but maybe a noticeable change in tone. I'll post honest perceptions. If they do nothing, they do nothing. If they rock, they rock. I think the effects on yours will be the same. You'll notice a difference, but it will not fill that "void" in your system called power. We'll see.......

Yeah, this thread is going to go into Neverland but for these shameless bumps. []

Morning, all! Rick.... and as you turned to me, you smiled and said "How, could we go wrong?" Of course. Your offer is very gracious. I'd love to be eductaed on these the easy way. PM coming your way.

Here's my idea. Meagain, go with the ALK crossovers, and tell me what the difference is. You've been honest with your observations this far.

No argument here for MD. If MD couldn't rock those Belles with 125 McIntosh, and it was night and day w/new xovers, well, then..... okay. MD, you oughtta try one of them 400 watt amps, though, and crank it real good. Maybe I oughtta try xovers. I'm sure you'll say that. But seriously, my Crown drives my KHorns soooo good. The sound is so smooth and effortless - even at high levels. Way high. The dynamics are all there. But I won't argue with what you heard with yours.

I'll tell you what would be an interesting poll. Have a combo poll. Flat or EQ Then: Tube less than 50 watts Tube greater than 50 and less than 100 watts Tube greater than 100 watts SS less than 50 watts SS greater than 50 and less than 100 watts SS greater than 100 watts I'd bet the EQ trend is higher in the lower power range.

Not really.

This headroom topic was covered in some detail in the "I bought KHorns" thread. Without headroom, when you turn up the volume, the "softer notes" converge at the top of your power output with the "loud notes." Therefore, separation is lessened, and dynamics begins to fall apart. The converging loudness across the spectrum muddles the sound. Many think it's distortion.

As it should..... I run flat, but my vote mis-registered as EQ. Now, I've screwed the thread up (skewed it), and it won't let me vote again to discount the error in my vote. FWOW.

No, but I'm not in here saying I'm missing anything either. I've run my speaks w/lower powered Marantz and with my Crown. A/B on this alone is all the difference in the world. I am utterly satisfied. Maybe a tweak would do a little something better, but I am so satisfied I don't care. Moreover, there's no way a cross-over could even remotely compare to going from my Marantz to my Crown - not even in this orbit. I think alot of money is wasted on these little tweaks, and few realize what dynamics is all about. They think their Klipsch sound dynamic through lesser powered amps because they are so loud.... and so clear.... oooooh. Dynamics is WAY different than just loud and clear. My little Marantz is loud and clear. Wooo hoooo! Try hearing, for example, at 200 watts, the difference between a kick drum and an adjacent rim-shot on the drums. Now that sounds GOOD. At 30 watts? Ehhhh.... EDIT: I guess I should add that it will sound good at 30 watts on my Crown, where there's still plenty of headroom for the high peaks when these sounds hit in the mix of the rest of the music. But if I played at the same 30 watts on a 30 watt amp, like my Marantz....... no way.

The amp.

Duke, mine are older and sound fabulous. Don't send her down that road. Nor did I ever do anything crossover-wise to my '81 Corns. I've heard both of these through inferior amps w/o serious headroom, and I educated the seller of my Klipschorns. We did A/B amp switching right on the spot, and the guy's comment was he never heard KHorns sound so good. I wasn't going to buy those KHorns until we heard them open up, so that's why I forced the issue on the guy. He learned what I already knew, but I got to hear my KHorns "right" before I purchased them. It's the amp - not the crossovers.

See, I've gotta quote myself to ping my own subconscious. I have a Marantz receiver driving them. "No amp." Bwa..hahahaha....

Here ya go! $400 for a Microtech 1200 from a reputable seller - assuming no higher bids. http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWN-MICROTECH-1200-STEREO-POWER-AMP-NR_W0QQitemZ7376974270QQcategoryZ23787QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

No. No changes whatsoever. These speakers are the same as they were in 1976. Crossovers are dull and weathered-looking. Like that matters. These speakers kick... Better news on the amp. Get a used one for about $300-400. I bet it would be easy to find one at that price. You will not be throwing your money away. That's a fact. Another fact. If I see one around here for that price, I think I'll pick it up, now that I'm wanting to ramp up a downstairs system. Adding KHorns left me with 2 fabulous Corns and no amp to drive them. Must.......... drive......... the Corns! []

Now, Duke, old man! Why would they do that? Don't they know those speakers will really "bloom" with a nice 20 watt tube amp?

Go ahead and throw all your nickles and dimes in the garbage..... [] Not really. Don't do that.