boa12

thump on brother! ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box 2nd room: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage '75) Technics 5-disk cd player Sega Genesis game player Sub: None rock on!

here's that Nousaine episode (i hope): www.vxm.com/21R.64.html

hey steve for a bedroom music sub, u could get an HGS-10 or 12(like Tom Nousaine has in his bedroom(seriously)) ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box 2nd room: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage '75) Technics 5-disk cd player Sega Genesis game player Sub: None rock on!

ya steve, the bags or svs package are what i'm looking for w/ HT. that is - more raw output than what I think I currently gots. why does this thread seem like dejavu? looks like i'd definitely need a better quality, higher current/power amp than what I have for the bags though. but i've started that 2nd system (see below). stay bad brother. ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box 2nd room: Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear) Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage '75) Technics 5-disk cd player Sega Genesis game player Sub: None rock on!

t-man, that's interesting. do u still have the denon on front+sub? btw, have u tried running the denon's main preouts to the ksw? that ksw is a funky lil beast ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

qualify? i can say in my case, that since my stock portfolio is now worthless, just showing off the only assets I have left! good thing klipsch hold their value fairly well p.s., I await those subs & reviews w/ much anticipation. hopefully for klipsch, like the market, expectations aren't too high ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

the 85db was just an extreme to bring it down to a starting point where the HGS can compete against 4 subs on the basis of thd. there it appears the hgs does do better at least to some point of overload. pitch definition & extension aren't supplemented by multiplying subs. ok, i can live w/ that. so the bag ends really suck? btw, here's what i think on pitch definition that may relate. bose said their 901 w/ it's like 9 5in. drivers & design was the equivalent of a 36" woofer. but for tight, clean bass from say a kick drum, a good ole single 15" woofer in my cornwall always sounded a lot better to me. thump on!

thanks robo. that's a good piece. crossed. that's the prob w/ the ksw-12. needs an unfiltered lfe jack or a crossover out switch. no has either.

that's a good ? depends on the receiver's bass mgmt & really u need to just fiddle w/ that cross to where it sounds best/blends in on bass w/ your jbl. the thang w/ the ksw-12 is it has no lfe(unfiltered) jack. most receivers will send lfe only to the sub out/sub just by setting sub:yes. but lfe can go up to 120hz. so it may be better if your new receiver has them to use the main preouts to ksw & speaker level connections to the jbl. depends how your receiver handles things.

tv, i did get the hgs-18 at about 35% off msrp, new, authorized local dealer, no big haggling. may not be the norm & yes sales tax added. i wouldn't pay anything over less 25% though - cost is a factor. even for great quality bass i agree pitch definition, trans. response are pretty subjective & vary by listener. though they are sound parameters, as opposed to cabinet appearance. in the 1 sub vs 4 comparison, the hgs will lose distortion advantage at an increasing rate as you increase spl. but the opposite should be true when you decrease spl to moderate listening levels (like maybe 85db . just pointing out, this is a possibility when listening to detailed music where distortion levels can be heard. & in this case turning the music down to a level where the hgs thd is say 1%, where would the distortion levels of the svs be? all i'm saying is there is some advantage to the high gain servo & the price for the technology. just trying to say spl isn't all that matters w/ subs. well w/ music anyway. & then there's also the extension. greenhill got solid output below 14hz with an fsr-18. i can't/won't argue against spl. from everything i've seen & heard, the svs combo for the same cost of an HGS-18 is superior when both spl & distortion are taken into account. still need to listen to em first.

quote: If I stacked up a $3000 retail SVS sytem against the $3000 retail using retail dealer msrp vs manufacturer direct pricing (which i very much commend svs for) is apples & oranges. but any reasonable retail dealer will sell for far less than msrp. You'd be able to get 4 16-46s/dual 700w amps,AND a 31 band EQ to help tame various room peaks from SVS. We'd just kill the HGS18 head-head here....all the way down to 15-17hz or so. good point on a total $ basis. but take $800 off the msrp & give me your eq & some change that then being equal, are you saying the four svs/dual amps & eq would leave the HGS-18/eq dead (or maybe alive) in room distortion? for spl, I have no dispute on that by a long shot. but an equalizer is moot in the point i was trying to make - purely # of subs & thd/pitch definition. given that, everything equal, more subs/amps are not going to improve the thd or pitch definition of the subs themselves. quote: as far as *pitch* goes...there's one hell of a lot of eletronics greenhill mentioned the accelerometer & limiter but didn't dwell on them in any negative way. they certainly don't increase thd or harm pitch definition. people can have their preferences, but it also depends how well the electronics work. ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

as for the ksw, just hook it up to the sub out w/ a good quality shielded interconnect Y or Y adapter to both L&R line inputs of the ksw (which u have probably already done). the sher's i know were great units in the 70s when i was a teen angel almost got one then, but decided on that other wood. generally, then set sub to yes, any speakers that don't effectively produce lower bass freqs. to small. play material w/ low bass and/or lfe & u should get something outa that ksw. then fine tune & season according to taste. ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

for the rp, as long as the denon's main preouts are connected to the line inputs (not LFE) jacks & u have those gold jumper straps removed, i think that's the best way. i originally had the rp-5 & connected their lfe in jacks to my receivers sub outs since i had no main preout jacks on my receiver. just wanted to make sure on that. & u definitely want the fronts selected as large. &, like steve says, if u do hook up the ksw to the sub out jack, do front+sub. i forgot the ksw-10 has no outputs like the 12 or 15 do. so my question's moot anyway. sorry but i still think the ksw could better serve u in your situation as a rear channels sub. as for connecting that w/ no outputs on the ksw, don't know if that's possible. maybe steve or other denon receiver owners could help on that. how does it sound now w/ all those together? w/ the ksw off? may be a case of if it aint broke...

quote: Can't argue about horse power,but it's how it's used that counts. steve, i totally agree w/ that (wasn't belittling the bag - sorry if it came across that way. i was wondering out loud i guess). i haven't heard that bag end or the rsw-15. since u have, just guessing that the bag-end apparently does it w/ less power by how they do the rest - 18" vs 15" cone, bigger box(?), sealed vs raditor, design, etc. as far as your mentioned bag end vs the Velo HGS-18, the actual price difference considering the discounted prices should be around $1k. i agree there too that's significant & you could buy (almost) 2 of those bags for the price of 1 vel 18. but just to add & put in a defense for the ole Velo HGS-18 , it's apples (bass quantity) and oranges (bass quality). you could stack up numerous bag-ends or svs against the HGS-18, but all that'll do is increase the bass quantity. the hgs will still have better bass quality (low distortion, pitch definition, etc.). that's what the high gain servo technology & concurrent higher price is there for. vel really puts an emphasis on bass quality. I've been told Larry Greenhill w/ stereophile uses the HGS-18 as his listening room reference sub. he must still be testing w/ music i think the only sub to put w/ my HGS-18 is another HGS-18. but not until I get an auditorium. my ideal would be to possibly put 2 of those bag end or svs in the other room where the rf-3 & rc-3 are now residing. have both an HT room & a music room. ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

steve, just saw your other post "great sub for the money" which answers my above ?. but i asked a ? on that now

steve, went to their site - 400 watts rms. vs the new rsw's 1000 watts - guess that shows what the larger box/driver(vs. rsw) & a lack of high gain servo(vs velodyne hgs) can do!

that's ok steve, i have to agree actually on that price thing. i was sunk w/ the dealer so at the time it was either the vel or a klipsch ksw sub. i've only heard the rave reviews on that bag-end. i think u heard the new klipsch rsw-15 at CES(?) how does it compare to the bag? ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

i didn't mean to start a 30 vs. 20 debate; looks like ledzep is going for the 30s anyway rw makes a good point - i am that slam bam boom kinda guy - but listen & get what u like best. ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

sas, since the rp-5 already have 2 built-in subs, i'd try using the ksw on different channels - like for the rears or the center. are you connecting the rp's subs through the ksw? can't really tell. ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

yea that looks like the way to do it. thanks john

sorry domain, my mistake lordy yes u need a good sub that ksw-12 should be fine. use that sub placement method above. works great, kinda like the method to adjust a rifle site, well u know... steve, 2 18" powered bag ends! i can't keep up w/ u! won't even try ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

cruzer, are u saying the klf-20 taste better than the 30s? just joshin anyway. w/ the 30s or 20s I think u need a big bad a** sub klipsch has some new ones coming like late may that look like killers. more high end price-wise too though. haven't tried a ksw, but wonder how much they can really add to klf, especially for music... there are those other brands too ... ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

i think my local authorized dealer lady now hates ME. think i'm putting too much stress on HER. & she even takes Mon. off

when u get the new sub, try putting it in your listening position then move your body around the room w/ the sf-1 & everything else playing too. then put the sub where or if it sounds louder in that place. if it doesn't sound noticeably louder in a certain place u may not need the sub. how do u have the sf-1 hooked up? line level from sub outs to the lfe in jacks? ------------------ Klipsch KLF-30 (front), KLF-C7, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Monsterbass 400 sub interconnect & Monster Z-12 cable Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on!

domain, since u settled on the sf-1, keep in mind these are powered towers. they have i think something like 225W peak amps built into each cabinet. i started w/ the rp-5 w/ a similar structure. putting a sub with those u could be experiencing some bass cancelation. maybe ideal placement of the sub would work. or maybe u don't need a ksw at all. or maybe if u want to use a seperate sub u could get like the sf-2(non-powered) w/ a ksw. these are the things a knowledgeable dealer can help u with. with a ksw added though, you're in effect running 3 seperate amplified subwoofers where the 2 sf-1 subs are identical & i assume placed on the same plane, whereas the ksw is not the same & maybe not positioned best.