boa12

or another thing you could try is just not doing the sub out/sub & y-adapter. run the front preouts to the x-30 & x-30 sub out to sub. (don't run the x-30 high out back into the denon & don't use ext in). then set sub:no in the denon. the fronts will auto be set large & get lfe also thru the speaker connection. set bass control to fronts+lfe. adjust the x-30 crossover w/ the bassy 2-channel stuff. same as above. turn the crossover all the way up on the servo sub. everything else same as steps above. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

pb, did you see my above? did you run the x-30 output back into the receiver. you don't want to deal w/ the highs thru the x-over. just the lows to the sub. iow, you don't want to use the ext in on the denon unless you're connecting like a dvd-audio player or a dvd player using the analog outputs. (take it your dvdp is connected to a digital-input on the denon). no argument here. it just may sound overall better setting all speaks small & using the sub out to sub. then you don't need the x-30 or the crossover on the sub. the receiver does all the filtering to the sub out. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

pb, "So I can connect the 50hz pre-out on the X-30 to the external in on the Denon." wouldn't do that. now that i would think would create problems because you're running preouts back into the preamp. that would be a loop. the ext in/direct inputs aren't like power amp inputs. they're meant to hook up an input device like a dvd-audio player. they bypass the dsp & dacs, but not the preamp. besides, to use those you'd have to switch to ext in which then doesn't use the dsp & dacs in the receiver. not good. as for the other speakers, set them small. that then directs all their low bass to the front preouts/sub. you can try setting the rears large if they're big enough. then the bass from those channels goes there instead of the fronts preouts. yes, there is a lot of low bass in the channels beside LFE for 5.1+ these days. but its a matter of whether the speaker can produce well down to 50hz or so, & what sounds best to you overall at your room, whether you do rear/surround on large or small. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

or, or option 2 would be to attach wire or something around the speakers' rear legs & to strong hooks or something in the wall or shelf behind. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

yeah brace, that's the word. shows how much i know about woodworking & home improv. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

btw, hope keith is ok. haven't seen him here for a while. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

m00n, want to watch that. i had a C7 slide off the front of my ent. cabinet top & it did some damage to the ent cabinet & the speaker cabinet. what i did was buy 2 bendable L brackets from the hardware store. for get what they're called exactly, but they're the lil 2-dimensional L brackets that are i think brass so bendable. then screw those into the shelf top near its front so the the speker will rest on top & the rising part of the L will catch the speaker cabinet front underneath the grille away from the drivers (more toward the center horn). you'll want to have bended the rising part slightly forward if the speaker is angling down. also, i spray painted the exposed part of the L black & it blends right into the speaker front. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 09-25-2002 at 08:42 PM

pb, let me give you the steps in order. on the servo, disable crossover or turn it all the way up. on the receiver, connect the fronts preouts to the x-30 L & R inputs. on the x-30, connect the sub output to the servo w/ Y-adapter. on the receiver, connect the sub out to the other connection of the Y-adapter on the servo sub. on the receiver, connect the fronts speaker terminals to the front speaks. on the receiver, set fronts:large, sub:yes & bass control to "LFE only". put on some bassy 2-channel stuff & play w/ the x-30 variable crossover to hear where it best jives between your speakers & sub. on the servo sub & x-30, set phase the same to where it gives you the best bass quality. (you may have to go back & forth some between the 2 steps above. many don't hear any real dif w/ phase setting & just leave it on 0/normal). on the servo sub, w/ the sub output setting in your receiver at flat/0, use its output control to adjust it to your other speakers level (or maybe 5 db higher - best to use a sound meter). on the receiver, when you're playing any 5.1 that has an LFE channel/content, you can tweak the LFE output level w/ the remote (may never need to do it). that should be a start. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

i haven't used your x-30, but it says it has its own variable crossover knob (in HZ). i would think you wouldn't use the high pass on it. to do that you run a connect from its output jack back into the receiver. you have nothing on the receiver to do that (no power in). so you don't use anything pertaining to the high pass output. since you don't run it back into your receiver, the high pass setting knob has no effect. just run the receiver front preouts to the x-30 INPUTS & connect the sub (servo, sorry) to the sub output on the x-30. so the only x-30 knob that applies is the variable crossover knob. that's what you set to where you want w/ bassy 2-channel stuff (probably somewhere between 40-60hz). set the phase switch on the x-30 the same as on the sub, whichever sounds best (probably 0 or normal). so set the sub output level on the sub to where it balances w/ the other speaks & where you like the bass, after you do the crossover on the x-30. if the servo sub has no crossover out/disable switch, then turn its crossover all the way up to 120hz or highest. then the LFE will go on the other connection to the servo sub from the receiver sub out, when you set the receiver to sub:yes, "LFE only" & fronts:large. & the LFE will not be filtered by the servo sub's crossover. don't worry about the LFE. set the sub output level to the 2-channel low bass (or w/ a sound meter). then the LFE will about approximate your sub output, w/ +10db bursts in movies (that's good). your receiver has a seperate LFE control if you want to tweak that. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

i'm trying to help m00n determine if his 520 has assignability for its amp when using an outboard power amp. as you know, the 520 has 5 amp channels & you need an external amp to drive rear surround. ? is, does the 520 allow for reassigning its amp so that its fronts speaker terminals will then drive the rear surround, & then the front preouts can drive the front speaks w/ the outboard amp? ------------------ My Home Systems Page

"However, I have one more question to Boa (or anyone else who can help). What output level do I set my external crossover at now (only filtering low bass from mains here)? Should I play regular two-channel music (with no LFE) and set the crossover output so it sounds balanced)? Then let the LFE go straight to the sub without any volume adjustment before arriving at the sub input? I guess I don't have much choice here unless I get a second crossover." pb, you mean the crossover on your x-30? the output level is on your sub. yes don't worry about the LFE. it's independent from your x-30 (when you run from sub out to sub). do as you said & set the x-30 cross where it sounds best to you on bassy 2-channel music. & use the output on the sub to balance the sub level to your sys (best to use a sound meter & set that after setting the crossover on the x-30). & be sure on your pw sub that its crossover is disengaged or turned all the way up to 120hz or higher from the start. otherwise its crossover will possibly cut LFE. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

"I think that on my RX-V3000 and my RX-V2092 when I select "Both" that the sub also plays the same lows that the mains are playing. The sub isn't just playing the LFE channel." sorry, but this is like a big puzzle for me. i know, i need a real life. but no, looks like the yammy is just like every other HT receiver in this regard. that is the basic program in the dsp sends LFE to the fronts only when sub:no, or "main" setting in the case of the yammy. its the wording in the manuals that makes it confusing: -Select the "SW" setting if you are going to use a subwoofer. The LFE signals are directed to the sub. -Select the "Main" setting if you do not use a subwoofer. The LFE signals are directed to the Main speakers. -Select the "Both" setting if you use a subwoofer and you want to mix the Main channel low frequency sound signals with the LFE signals. notice for "both", it doesn't say where it mixes the two types of signals. where it is, is in the sub. the sub get both low bass & LFE, not the fronts. as you know, low bass from the other channels & LFE are two totally seperate things. low bass is contained in the 5-7 other channels. LFE is a seperate channel (the .1). i know i'm a bass mgmt freak, but hopefully this info is of value. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

if you have 4 surround speaks taking up the 4 inputs, where do you plug your butt shakers? i myself have never used those. i don't think that jim on the HT forum knew what you were asking either. there's no idication on the back of the 520 & by the speaker terminals on where to hook the rear surround speaks instead of the front speaks. not in the manual? sounds fishy to me. can't believe there aren't any HK 520 owners/users on here that know for sure. i'll do a post in HT & see. just to clear it up for my own curiousity. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

good deal on rc-7. think one may be all you need anyway. i still don't think your HK 520 is assignable like the denon. i read your manual some & looked at the back. sounds to me like the HK guy either doesn't understand what you're asking or doesn't know the 520 features. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

""-Select the "Both" setting if you use a subwoofer and you want to mix the Main channel low frequency sound signals with the LFE signals." So in the both mode you do get LFE in the main speakers but you don get main speaker low frequencies in the subwoofer therefore the mains have the potential to be producing low frequencies that are not being directed to you sub because." ej, actually I think its the other way around, as it is w/ most all processors/receivers - that is when you set both it mixes low bass from the fronts in with the LFE to the sub. iow, unless you don't use a sub & select "main" which is the equivalent of sub:no, LFE always goes to the subwoofer only. the wording by these makers makes it more confusing. such as denon's use of the term "fronts+LFE" you'd think the same. but its talking from the sub's perspective in that w/ this you get both low bass from the fronts AND LFE to the sub. LFE is only to the sub & doesn't also go to the front speaks. so to get your hookup to work using the fronts preouts, you set it to "main" so that LFE is sent to the fronts preouts and not to the sub preout which you don't use. this is basically the same effect as setting sub:no & wiring the sub in parallel to the fronts off the fronts speaker terminals. what i'm talkin on the adjustable in my pre/pro is a combined high & low pass digital crossover in its dsp. that is where i set it high passes all speaks set small at that point on up & low passes the sub out at that point on down. so when i set it to 50hz & all speaks small, the speaks start getting cut at 50hz (instead of a fixed 80hz) on down at the adjustable slope rate, & the sub out/sub starts getting cut at 50hz on up at its adjustable slope rate. as now looks like w/ all dsp, because i have sub:yes, all LFE channel (the .1 in 5.1) goes to the sub only & nowhere else. of course i could set certain speaks large which disengages the high pass for those certain speaks, but i've found it sounds best using the high pass albeit at the 50hz mark. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

m00n, so did you get 1 or 2 rc-7 for rear surround? so the pa4000 has 2 sets of inputs (4 input jacks)? just curious. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

"When you set to LFE out specifically when you listen Digital 5.1 since the sub is dedicated any bass sent to mains is not routed to sub" ej, ok i was under the wrong impression on the yammy controls. a few yammy posters here said that there are 2 controls - sub control & LFE control. that is, you can set those so that low bass goes to both fronts:large & sub preout AND LFE goes to both. so that's not the case? iow, the yammy is dif in that it allows LFE to go to both, but it doesn't then allow low bass to both w/ that setting? don't know why they do that, but yeah if that's the case then you have to use the fronts preouts to do both for LFE & low bass. i still prefer an adjustable crossover in the processor, so that LFE goes only to sub & low bass is cut much lower than the 80-90hz (both high & low pass), but at least they're ways like this around a high fixed crossover & big speaks. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

m00n, that right, whether matrix or discrete, its the same stuff to the rear surround(s). all a 2nd rear surround speak does is provide for more fillage in the gap between surrounds, if needed. doesn't add any dif material. same as if you add a 2nd set of side surrounds (as far as side surround goes, not rear surround). ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 09-24-2002 at 10:11 PM

"Hey, what is you switch the bables around?" don't know for sure, but just in case, put some airplane "white rabbit" on before you do. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

that's right, as p says for whatever channels you're using the amp for - & connect the speakers for those channels to the amp (not the receiver). ------------------ My Home Systems Page

mike, thanks for updating your signature link too. now i'm in-sync. great set-up there! ------------------ My Home Systems Page

ej, looks like you're doing the same thing i just said but using the fronts preouts to the sub instead of the sub preout. would it be better to use the sub preout or is there a downside to that? iow, is it true that the yammy has an lfe control that sends LFE (not low bass) to both the sub preout & the fronts speaker terminals? i've been told a few times on here that it does. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

ej, are you switching to sub:no & not using the sub preout? from what i've seen, only the yammy have a control to set sub:yes, use the sub preout, & send LFE (not low sub bass) to both sub & fronts. most other receivers send LFE to the sub only as long as you set sub:yes. that's what i was dealing w/ above for those receivers like denon & most others that only allow for controls of low bass (not lfe), such as the LFE only or fronts + LFE (which really means the low bass does not go to sub also w/ fronts large, & low bass does go to sub & fronts:large, respectively. w/ the yammys & that LFE control, why not set sub:yes, big speaks large, use the crossover on your sub or external to where it jives best w/ the speakers, & set that lfe control to both so it goes also to the big fronts? also set the sub bass control so it sends low bass to both fronts & sub. then you connect the fronts to the speaker terminals, sub to sub preout. that way the fronts are also getting the LFE so you don't lose any when you dial down the crossover on your sub. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

17, i don't have the x-30. was just trying to help pb w/ his. my pre/pro has an adjustable crossover that allows for settings down to 20hz in 5hz increments (i use 50hz). but w/ a fixed 80-90hz crossover in most receivers, seems most for best bass quality & to not cut any lfe set all speaks small (yes even the big ones like your kg) & use no crossover for the sub - that is switch off or turn all the way up both the external crossover & that on the sub itself. your yammy is already doing the filtering to the sub at its fixed 90hz when you use the sub out & set speaks small. does your yammy have the control to send LFE (not sub low bass) to both the sub & fronts speakers? if so, then you could set the fronts large, take out the x-20, & dial the sub's crossover to where it sounds best for bassy music like 50hz f.e. then set the yammy so it sends LFE to "both" the sub (getting cut at 50hz) & to the front speakers thru the speaker terminals. then you don't lose LFE because its also going to the kg. i'd try that or the previous where you just set all small, take out the x-20, disengage the pw crossover, send lfe only to the sub only. as for phase, best to have a helper switch it back & forth while you listen to some bassy music from the listening spot. leave it on the setting where the bass sounds best to you, like more of a sharper edge or impact. if you can't tell any dif, just leave the phase at 0 or normal. ------------------ My Home Systems Page

wisky also has madtown & the biggest octoberfest this side of Germany. yeah they party there. ------------------ My Home Systems Page