Klipschter

I just bought a Denon 4310ci receiver. Just hooked it up but I haven't calibrated my speakers with Audyssey or made any tweaks. I've literally plugged my speakers and components in and that's it. So you'll have to take my first impressions with a large grain of salt, and I can't speak much for the features yet. Haven't even been able to watch blu rays yet because I need a longer HDMI cable to connect my TV to the receiver's HDMI out slot. But right out of the box I noticed that my center channel has been given new life. Dialogue is crisper, cleaner, and more audible. I tried turning up the center channel volume on my old budget Yamaha receiver but the result was an unnatural effect that created "cupped hands" sound. Watched a couple movies and shows on HBO HD including Hulk. I didn't even make any changes to the low frequency crossover settings and the bass coming through my Fathom sub still sounded great. The sound seems to be more even as well. By this I mean the sound coming from my mains doesn't drowned out sound coming from my surrounds or center channel. Again, I've tried balancing out my speakers through my old Yamaha receiver via the speaker volume settings, but never got the results I wanted. I'm not bagging on Yamaha receivers. I'm sure a high end Yamaha could garner the same results and improvements as my new Denon. Right out the box this thing sounds pretty damn good. I'm almost afraid to use Audyssey for fear it might change the sound I'm already satisfied with TOO much. Haven't really messed around with the remotes yet either. Pretty much have only used the on/off, volume, and input buttons. The remotes and the manual look a bit daunting. Overall my first impressions have been very positive for this receiver. It produced a noticeably more enveloping and detailed sound experience than my old budget receiver. I'll post further impressions once I've wrangled with the remote, manual, and Audyssey system more.

Let me preface my comment by saying that I am no expert, as you can see by the number of posts I have. As for specs, the f113 is more than capable of delivering great sounding bass sub 20hz. I'll refer you to this insightful thread that helped in my choice to get a Fathom: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/86012/868544.aspx. I've read a lot of posts poo pooing JL subs as overrated, overpriced, and overhyped. But this is inevitable when they've been lauded as the best commercially available subwoofer. It's like saying Megan Fox is overrated. Not to mention I can match each of those posts with a professional rave review for the Fathom. For those of us who failed woodshop and don't have time to invest in a do it yourself sub with better specs, the Fathom is great. It's also great for people with little space or finicky wives. But of course most of these attributes are in praise of the Fathom's form not function. Don't worry, the Fathom has the function department covered and then some. I'm planning to get a second f113 as soon as I get enough scratch. Definitely keep your mind open during this purchase, you're probably going to be spending a lot of money whatever the case if you're looking at subs that can match DUAL Fathoms. I think it's also important to mention that I bought my Fathom new, for well under the recommended $3700 MSRP on JL's website. So the overpriced criticism doesn't really apply in my case.

I don't mean to hijack this post but I've been looking at buying a new receiver too. I've been looking at the SC-25 Pioneer Elite model and Denon's AVR 4310CI and 3808CI models. Montigue, do you also have a low opinion of Pioneer's higher end receivers and if so why. Unfortunately these units (the SC-25 and 4310CI) are new models so there aren't any reviews available yet. It seems to me like Yamaha and Onkyo are the most popular avr brands on the forums and I just feel silly looking at all these receiver companies that nobody on here has.

I would go with a good Panasonic plasma or a Pioneer plasma if the store in your area has any left.

In another amp thread on this forum a member recommended that I get an amp with twice the power rating of my speakers. I have RF-82s rated at 150W RMS/600W peak. So I'd have to get an amp with a 300W per channel rating. But a lot of people on this forum seem to be happy with Emotiva's 200W per channel amps. So is an amp with twice the power rating of my speakers overkill?

If your player can decode then you don't need to worry about your receiver having to. You're right, but doesn't the player have to be connected to the receiver via HDMI for this to work? If your receiver doesn't have the ability to decode DTS-HDMA and Dolby True HD, odds are it doesn't have HDMI connections either. This is the situation with my setup now. My Sony blu ray player can decode the new audio formats but my receiver doesn't have HDMI connections so I can't take advantage of the blu ray player's ability to decode the new audio formats. I've also been told that it is preferable to have your receiver doing the decoding. Kind of like how if you have a good HDTV its better to have it do the video processing rather than your receiver. You might want to check out Pioneer's new lineup of budget receivers. The vsx-819H-K model goes for $299.00 and supports Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio.

I think he means a receiver capable of playing Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio formats.

I'm a novice when it comes to home theater so I'll take good advice wherever I can get it. I'm very pleased with my fathom, especially considering that I bought it new for $1000 less than the msrp. The place I bought my subwoofer at does give me a year to trade in what I have for something better. What kinds of subs would you recommend?

Get rid of the F113 that I already have? No way. I'd sell my firstborn child before getting rid of my Fathom subwoofer. Floor real estate is at a premium in my small room (9X17 feet) so the JL, which packs a punch in a small footprint, is great for me. I will eventually have more room when I move out of my parents when I'm done with school but I'm working with what I've got right now. Frankly, I don't need a second sub but I'd rather buy it now when I'm not paying rent than when I'm struggling on my own without mom and dad's support. Then I could have two subs when I move into a larger space. I'm no expert but from what I've read JL Audio's subs and Paradigm's sub 25 are the best subwoofers available unless you plan on taking out a second mortgage for a subwoofer and plan on using an airplane hanger for a home theater. I think any improvement that I would get by selling the Fathom and getting something new would be negligible at best.

When you say twice the rating of my speakers you are referring to the wattage ranking correct? Because the power ranking on my RF-82s is 150W RMS/600W peak. So this means I'd have to get an amp offering at least 300 watts per channel if I were to follow your recommendation. Amp(s) that powerful may be out of my price range. To get that kind of power from a Rotel amp I'd have to upgrade to an RB-1092 two channel 500 watt amp which retails for $2,500. Is 500 watts overkill and would it be a waste of money in my case, or would I be satisfied with an amp giving me 200 watts per channel?

Thanks, and good luck tracking down a pair of cherry surrounds.

Just did some research and found the Pioneer receiver I was looking at has Wolfson WM8728 192 kHz / 24-bit DAC. Is this sufficient? Also why are good DACs important when using separates?

I just upgraded my subwoofer and will be selling my RW-12d to a friend. The sub is maybe 2 years old, if that, and has experienced light use in that time. It has absolutely no scratches or dings. I wouldn't call the person I'm selling it to a best friend. He's actually a coworker of my brother's but helps me out from time to time with fixing my computer and setting up my home theater equipment. I was thinking between $370-400. Let me know what you think.

Willland-You said to pick a receiver with good DACs. Could you recommend some? I've been looking at the new receivers in Pioneer's VSX line. Both the VSX-21TXH and the VSX-23TXH. I just noticed the other day on Klipsch's website that the cherry finish is no longer given as an option on the RS-52s. They are great surround speakers. Even with their small subwoofer drivers they are capable of creating enveloping explosions when watching action movies and playing video games. And yes the cherry finish looks amazing. Glad I got them when I did if they are no longer available.

I will be upgrading my receiver in my system pretty soon. But I have also been looking at amps--either an Emotiva XPA-5 or Rotel RMB-1095. If I get the Rotel and a $800-1000 receiver a second subwoofer is pretty much out of the question. But I could go the cheaper route, and get a >$1000 receiver and the Emotiva and get a second JL-Audio F113 subwoofer down the road. What would you guys do in my position?

Sorry meant biwired.

The metal straps are removed because the speakers are biamped. I've fidgeted with the speaker placement and bass settings on my receiver and that has helped a little bit. A friend recommended buying bass traps to put in the corners of my room and Auralex pads (http://www.auralex.com/) to hang on my walls. On a side note I finally hooked up my JL Audio Fathom f113 subwoofer and it sounds AMAZING. Watched the motorcycle chase scene from the Dark Knight and it blew me away. And I haven't even tweaked the settings or used the room correction microphone. To quote Ferris Bueller, "If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

Figured out what the problem is. The problem is my room which apparently has the worst acoustics ever. It appears that the best listening position in my room isn't the couch but my doorway. It's like day and night. Bass response is solid when I'm standing in the doorway to my room (turning up the bass on the tone control of the receiver helped add a little extra punch too), but when I sit on the couch facing the television and speakers the bass response is totally gutted. Don't know how I can fix this problem. The room is small and the way I have it setup now is basically my only option. It's like a puzzle. There's only one way that all the pieces of furniture fit together. Moving the speakers forward away from the walls would put them right in my lap. I did move them a few inches up and that didn't seem to help any. Do any of you think a receiver with a good automatic room correction system could solve this problem? I will see if I can borrow my brother's digital camera to post some pictures of my setup to see if you guys can give me any ideas.

Sorry I don't have a camera that I can use to upload pictures of my setup at the moment. But the room is rather small (About 9ftX16ft) and the listening position relative to the speakers is very close. The mains are only about 7 feet away from the listening position and the center is even closer at 6 feet. I am using the manual setup on my receiver. Because the room is rather small the speakers are very close to the wall--only about 5/6 inches away. I know that having speakers close to the walls can affect bass quality but this seems to be more of a bass quantity problem. I'm leaning towards the speaker out of phase problem, unfortunately I have no idea what this means. Could someone elaborate? Is this a problem with the speaker itself or how I've connected it? The speakers are biamped and I did have a friend (who's more knowledgeable and handy than I am) hook my speakers up so its possible he could've made a mistake. It is also possible that I made a mistake hooking up the speakers when I upgraded to the RF-82s from my only RF-10s. The reason I don't use the sub all the time is a matter of courtesy to the other people living in the house. In other words mom yelling "turn that down!" Thanks for your help.

My system includes two RF82 mains and I have to say I am disappointed with their bass output. I'm not one of these guys who needs to shake the whole house, but it seems like the minisystem the dishwashers use at my restaurant has more bumps than my Klipsch towers. I expected a lot more out of a set of speakers that--combined--boast four 8inch drivers. I know a lot of you are going to say what are you bitching about you have a fathom sub (which I haven't hooked up to my system yet, hopefully tomorrow) but I do a lot of listening without a subwoofer--just using 2 channels for music. To get a decent thump out of the towers I have to jack the receiver volume way up. But of course this results in horrible sound quality where the low frequency content is totally disproportional to the much louder high frequency content. When I am not using a subwoofer I have my RF82s set to large on my receiver and the subwoofer setting (i.e. both, subwoofer, front) on the receiver set to front. I'm fairly certain its not a speaker wire issue either as test tones run fine through my receiver's setup process. Is the problem my rather wimpy budget receiver? Or were my expectations of a solid bass foundation from my 82s set too high? I also have concerns about how my RF82s blending with my new subwoofer. I'm worried that the lack of bass in my mains is gonna make the sub stand out like a sore thumb.

I'm leaning towards a receiver/amp combination. Could I use this Pioneer receiver with an Emotiva amp: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.VSX-23TXH.Kuro. I noticed that the Emotiva amp also has XLR cable connections. JL Audio recommends connecting its subwoofers via XLR balanced cables. Could I hook my Fathom sub (In addition to my center and front speakers) up to the Emotiva amp, and would this be best way to setup my new sub?

What does an amp bring to the table in terms of sound quality? Less distortion, more bass, clearer sound at higher levels? I know that Klipsch speakers are known for their efficiency so is an amp offering more watts really necessary?

Sorry I thought my system profile also displayed in my profile signature. The audio sources I use are exclusively CDs played through either my blu ray player or XBOX 360. Overly bright sound doesn't seem to be a problem, even on low quality burned cds, when I have the volume on my receiver set to -20db. When I get to the -15db range I start to notice a difference. Part of the problem is I have to turn up the volume on some content to get the kind of bass response I want. I could turn up the sub volume but the sub is already boomy set at -7/-6db. Hopefully the new Fathom sub (which just arrived at the store today) I got will fix that with tighter, less boomy, and less muddy bass when listening to music. My RW-12d is good for movies and video games but its not the most musical sub. I don't know, maybe I'm just hearing the overly bright sound to justify a new purchase. In any event I'm still getting a new receiver. I did notice none of you endorsed the Pioneers I was looking at. Any particular reasons? Someone also mentioned purchasing separates. I'm not really familiar with this setup and the benefits that an amp would bring to my setup. Could someone elaborate on how using an amp+receiver would be set up and what benefits it would bring?

Budget Range: $800-$1500 I am looking for a new receiver for my Klipsch home theater setup. My current receiver, a Yamaha RX-V559, seems to make the sound of my speakers bright, tinny, and even shrill when playing music at higher volumes, although this problem is not very noticeable when viewing movies or playing video games. My less than perfect room and close listening position may be to blame more than the receiver for this. My room is small, 9ftX16ft, and the speakers are placed rather close to the walls. I know Klipsch speakers are naturally on the brighter side of the sound spectrum, but it would be nice if someone could recommend some receivers that could tame the brightness a little bit. I have been looking at Pioneer's new SC-25 and VSX-23TXH models. The high end audio dealer that just sold me my JL Audio Fathom sub recommended Integra. The features/needs for this new receiver are a good room/auto calibration system, HDMI inputs, DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD decoding, and a more "warm" or neutral sounding receiver. My main concern is: am I going to get noticeably better sound quality if I stretch my budget for a higher end $1000+ receiver?