m54
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Posts posted by m54
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...the benefit of using two subs is obviously smoothing out the room, but also you can turn each sub down so they are "loafing along". This helps with definition. I have found that the appropriate crossover in my processor to my RF7IIs is 40 Hz for music. 60 Hz delivers more wallop but I have to turn the subs down. Right now the sub setup I have is tuned to make the most of 20-40Hz with a combo of R115Sw and SW115.
When those deep deep notes in music or effects in movies come along they are startling!
And yes I too test the patience of my dear wife. After dialing the subs in, I had to go to the kitchen cabinet where our wine glasses are and separate them so they weren't touching each other. oh yeah, much better ;-)
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re: the new models ?
"Oh ye of little faith!"
the SW311 is a little monster
and a smart one too
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Actually... my father's parents are from Quebec, so there is a family thread I'm sure...
I found out later that my Dad's first name (on his birth certificate) was Joseph, even though he went by Roderick.
It adds up, because I am a bass freak
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interesting thread!
We have a few exceptional tracks that we use for Klipsch Inc.subwoofer development (hint), and one of my favorites is a Telarc recording of Michael Murray.
Needless to say, quality recordings of pipe organs serve as dynamic, brutal and fantastic test tracks. But with that said, one must hear/feel an actual pipe organ in all its acoustic glory, in a large cathedral or concert hall, to grasp the room shudder of the lowest notes. A full body experience.
And a lofty goal in audio reproduction for subwoofer designers.
get ready
--Mark Casavant
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I wish they had shown the hand hammering K craftsmen. A bit of old world with new.
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funny
we just got another Maximum PC Kick *** Award for the wireless ProMedia 2.1 system. A nice anniversary present.
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what is matched up to these as main speakers?
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and....
in order to get additional 6 dB of output you have to keep doubling surface area (with double the power assuming the subs are the same model)
1 sub + 1 sub = 6 dB "up"
(this is the most economical bang for the buck improvement.)
2 subs + 2 subs = 6 dB "up"
4 subs + 4 subs = 6 dB "up"
This was the premise of the ProMedia SWS concept, which not everyone understood.
Ultimately, the simple benefit of going from one sub to two is a large advantage gained...
"Doesn't everybody have 16 subs??!!"
;-P
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thanks haus (Trey)
... another thing to remind folks about is that loud bass is pleasant, and it needs to be loud to truly hear/feel the infrasonics...~ 20 Hz.
So whoever thinks 110-115dB is enough, that's fine. The ear (no dude, not you/ the human ear) can tolerate more without pain or damage, and in nature bass gets pretty loud.
But there are true bass junkies here and those that appreciate clean and loud, which is the hallmark of Klipsch and one of the very reasons we entered into the sub category in the first place.
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this is not really fair but, I thought it was still relevant due to some of the prices people are wiling to pay for flat extended bass...
This is the latest version of my RT12d + RSW15 combo. no mods to either product...
One thing I did since the last round was balance the output from the two, so each works less hard. ARC is active for both, obviously...
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yessir. that's the plot I asked for ...
now you know why, homeslice ;-)
.... it's called 'optimally flat'
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I would recommend the front right corner, which will help smooth out room modes.
This will make the frontal bass impact better as well.
'boomy' huh? try lowering the crossover setting a bit.
I am a purist about rears subs. If you're going to add one in the back do it only after you have two in-phase across the front. and the rear sub should be tied to the rear (large surround speaker setting) signal to really not detract from the multi-channel presentation.
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the bottom graph is a measurement of just the RT-12d. plenty of real output at 22 Hz and up....
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keep in mind it's half space measured specs listed above. Typical home envirnment is 1/4 or 1/8 space which equates to room gain on the lowest frequencies.
with that high sensitivity you could EQ it to a degree and get useful bass extension at 30Hz.
I own two for PA purposes, and as I have DJ'd with them in large ballrooms and put the power to them, they are visceral and very good sounding/ low distortion tuneful bass/ not the typical droning of most PA subs.
I limit the power at 20 Hz as they do come 'unglued' 'down there'... where some new heavy dance music resides... the passive radiators unload and have a flapping sound. if anything it is an audible governor and I back them down a bit, all the while the 18" drivers are protected. But that is when I am dumping 2500 watts peak into them. I would *never* play them that loud at home...
on the other hand you may ultimately spend more $ to tune them appropriately for home use, and defeat the great deal.
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this may not be obvious, but, the blue line represents the corrected response, in the room. it is flat from ~ 18hz out to 60 Hz.
I cross over to the mains, at 55 Hz...
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just for fun I thought I would post the results of my RSW15 plus an RT12d (with ARC active for both).
the RT is up front left, and the RSW up front right.
this was taken at the seating position, about 2/3 back from the front
The room is approx 9' h, 15' w, 21' d
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I've never noticed that number of posts has ever been directly related to knowledge on a subject.
I stated that my prefernce was just that, my preference. If I stated a fact, like all auto room-EQ's are not created equal, or that an RT isn't required to be placed in a corner, then it's a fact.
Not trying to be difficult but also don't want to be dismissed on a subject I might know a little someting about.
I'll back you up.
How do you like the ARC working for the RSW15?
It is a great feature, and takes the RSW performance up a notch. The combo is dangerous.
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what is your budget? the Sub 12 would keep up with your system,,, and give you 25 Hz! or get two!
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rmlowz,
Good to see I am not alone suffering from the sub bass illness. [
] The more subs....the better.Right
front corner: Rt-12d loaded into corner with RSW-15 linked in with the
ARC calibration serving the output of both. Rt low pass set at 55 Hz,
36 dB slope, flat setting. Both phase inverted (RSW-15 set at 0,
because the phase invert of the RT-12d passes through the line out)
...so the Klipsch passive radiators at lower bandwidth mesh in phase
with the absolute polarity of a ULD15 II, also up front, right side.
Left
front is a Synergy Sub12, LP set at 40Hz, phase inverted. A most
capable sub for the price. It's clean & high output is amazing at
and below 30 Hz.
On left side wall is another ULD15II. Don't always engage this one.
Rear
sub, filling in with the surround channels is an older modified SW15II,
70 Hz LP, phase inverted. Kept a bit low on the output scale, for
merely back-fill foundation purposes for the occasional full-bandwidth
surround effects in movies.
Room is odd-order, 9'x15'x21',
with rear doors opening to larger room. ~2800 ft3 / plus-factor with
the doors open of course. The subs are level matched running in a
highly complementary fashion, where bass bandwidth is handled with each
sub's respective forte. Speed, impact/slam, SPL, extension and
clarity/pitch definition; all are a factor. Room modes are smoothed out
beautifully, albeit an extreme approach... It has taken a few weekends
of final testing to get it subtle (you read that correctly) and yet
massive when called for. But the main reason is for effortless dynamic
range, which I am accustomed to from live classical performances. This
also excludes muddiness at low or high volumes, while especially tuned
for a variety of 'deep-frequency' source content - music and theater
media.
I have an eclectic source mix: progressive electronic
music, but I also love acoustic jazz, fusion, rock and vocals. Add
movie blockbusters because punch is important, as extension. Yet,
subjective musical balance is always the starting point for me. A
system should develop really deep, abysmal bass when the content calls
for it, and then should go away. That is part of the wonder and
surprise of certain types of music, either live or reproduced. Upper
and middle bass should not suffer for the deep bass capability, with
bloated or exaggerated character. Balance is the key for a system to
disappear and get you closer to the music.
I have many pipe
organ favorites so the system has to do it with aplomb and pitch
definition... The in-room total response easily delivers the output of
32 ft pipes. I also have recordings of one of two existing pipe organs
with 64 footers that start to challenge not just the playback system
but the middle ear's capability to hear vs. the entire body's. The
shuddering effect (if you have heard a large instrument live, you know
what I mean) is jaw dropping. It defies logic when it can be done in a
small space in the home, when the natural setting is a huge space for a
huge sound. It does take a significant bit of acoustic horsepower. If
any of you would like, I can expand on some superb recordings that will
test the mettle of your system. PM me.
Deep bass works IF you
have the highs, mids and upper bass as natural and properly handled by
a capable system. This kind of bass capability requires it.
"My name is m54. I am a bass freak..."
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I received a turntable via e-bay (Technics) with a straight low mass
tonearm and p-mount Grado. The only indication on it shows "MC+"
?
Anyone familiar with this one? I have searched online but not too sure what it is. It is a beige color.
thanks for any insight...
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I have an analog system based on the PMA 2000 IV (Denon integrated) with a turntable and occasionally the iPod. I am looking to add a quality CD player <$600. I need one based on the quality of its analog outs since this amp does no digital decoding. Any recommendations?
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The ProMedia Ultra (and GMX models) have the sws (subwoofer system) output jack. This will work with any powered sub. The KSW 10 at Best Buy would complement well.
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I could tell you but then I'd have to ........... well, you know.
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Thought you guys and gals might enjoy some tidbits from the New Synergy development team...
Following are notes from the development team meetings with design and performance details.
We believe all this was achieved, and New Synergy will raise the bar for affordable/high performance products. It certainly is best of class. But then again I am biased!
Enjoy!
New Synergy: Redefining Affordable Performance with Genuine Klipsch Quality Design
All New Design:
Striking black and titanium cosmetics;
Improved aesthetic integration into any environment; meant to go with the latest high definition big screens to produce a beautiful system appearance.
Extremely Décor friendly; Sleek, non-boxy design.
Simultaneously elegant and aggressive.
Theme for development team: The Veiled Muscle Car
Grille on elegant, inviting, attractive, understated. Grille off aggressive, powerful, statement of Klipsch branded performance.
Sonically Matched: The entire new Synergy line is sonically matched to provide a precise and engaging listening experience whether youre watching your favorite movie or listening to your favorite music. Ideal for multi-channel applications, while still catering to the 2-channel audio enthusiast.
Improved Bass Extension with more impact at lower frequencies and greater low frequency detail.
Improved spatial cues of low-frequency sonic events, esp. in movies.
Improved integration with subwoofers.
All Aluminum Tweeters: Improved high frequency response to 23kHz
Perfect for use with high resolution formats (SACD, DVDA)
90 x 60 Tractrix Horn Technology, continuing with the evolution of Klipsch advanced horn design.
Excellent control of midrange and high frequency dispersion.
High efficiency, low distortion; this means both the speaker drivers and the amplifier are operating with less heat, greater reliability, and most importantly more dynamic headroom and lower distortion. Transients can be reproduced more accurately because the equipment is not working so hard to play your music and movies.
The Tractrix horn provides ideal coupling to the woofer element; Klipsch two-way speaker systems sound like one source (not like several separate speakers): this is the result of phase coherency, largely achieved through phase coherent crossover design and implementation.
IMG Cones with Rubber Surrounds: lightweight, high performance cones.
Linear surrounds ensure minimal distortion and tight bass response.
Floor Standing Models feature intense low-frequency extension
Ports Located on Front Baffle: near floor for improved coupling between ports and woofers.
Woofer(s) and ports work together more efficiently to deliver defined, intense bass.
Enables acoustic loading near boundaries, enhancing low frequency response at the listening position.
Custom, sculpted port shows attention to every detail.
Bookshelf Models: feature excellent low-frequency output; bookshelves sound like much larger speakers through enhanced enclosure tuning via rear ports.
Excellent boundary loading for improved low frequency response when placed near a solid surface (wall, etc.)
New Synergy motor structures are robust. These drivers can outperform larger drivers from competitors that typically use inferior motor assemblies. Klipsch driver engineering ensures optimized magnetic flux in the voice coil gap for high output, linearity, lowest distortion, and high power handling capacity.
Bi-Wire Capability on C2, C3, F1, F2 and F3
Use one or two speaker level inputs as desired for improved connectivity
Center Rear Foot Post (Center Channels): allows speaker to be angled down at up to 10 degrees for improved integration into any listening environment
Surrounds with a new rounded aesthetic treatment: curved protective grille. Aesthetically pleasing, attractive integration into listening environment; Décor friendly.
WDST from Klipsch:
Wide Dispersion Surround Technology allows room placement flexibility because wide, yet controlled dispersion envelopes listener in surround effects. Klipsch Wide-Dispersion Surround Technology takes a unique approach to even distribution of sound energy, unlike more common bi-pole, di-pole, or mono-pole speakers. WDST delivers much more rear channel (information) intensity and sonic realism not relying on room reflections to disperse the sound. Bouncing sound off the walls has never been the way of Klipsch and our surrounds continue in the tradition of delivering clarity and realism. Clarity and definition is refreshing for rear-channel signals and critical for higher resolution 5.1 and 6.1 home theater systems. An ultimate setup would incorporate WDST surrounds complemented with an additional rear subwoofer for the rear channel signal.
Summary Statement
Combining high-quality materials, the most reliable components, and aggressive yet refined styling, the all new Klipsch Synergy Series is the worlds greatest value in high-performance home entertainment. No matter what the source, the all new Synergy Series loudspeakers deliver everything from the softest whisper to the most intense, heart-stopping action with the clarity, definition and intensity that continues to make Klipsch the ultimate sound experience.
] The more subs....the better.
the other legend of horns, Dr. Bruce Edgar
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
You all will be mind-boggled when you hear the AK6- new Klipschorns.
Imaging and musicality is staggering, and both PWK and Edgar would be grinning!!!