Coolin

---------------- On 7/22/2003 8:10:37 AM USparc wrote: For capacitor type overview: http://netcity1.web.hinet.net/UserData/shiawei/new_page_1.htm To bad we still dont know the used materials which determine the quality. Indeed the RF-3 doesn't need a notch filter (I think). Like DeanG said, if the RF-3 needed one their would be one. But you never know until you actualy take the horn to a frequency generator the take the frequency response. Maybe klipsch left it out to spare some components. We however could discover this by checking the RF-5. Does the RF-5 have a notch filter on the horn filter?? I dont know if the RF-5 has one but i doubt it. And this could very well be a cost cutting measure for the RF-3 while the cross over freqency change on the RF-5 has solved this. Another thing is the crossover frequency itself. I see that klipsch raised the crossover frequency. If you check the RF-5 which has the same woofers as the RF-3's but different horn(think driver is the same). RF-5 xover 2500Hz. RF-3 xover 1975Hz. So the woofers have to do more in the RF5 then in the RF-3???? Even in the RF-7 (xover at 2200) which have even larger woofers the crossover frequency is raised vs the RF-3. There is some margine here for the woofers. Why do the new horns need to do less?? There could be an improvement to raise the crossover of the RF-3 to reduce the stress on the horn. In time I will figure it out. If i am correct the driver of the RF-3 has been used with the horn of the RF-7. This suggest (and klipsch comment on the forum that the users commented on a "shouty" nature of the RF-3 at higher levels)there is room for improvement by enlarging the horn on the RF-3. I can tell you this is an amazing improvement!! I have done this with cardboard at the moment. Futher evidence is that the power rating has been dropped somewhat on the newer RF-3s. Mine are 225 W each. Maby we can convince Dean to spill the beans.................. ----------------

Thanks for the word of caution Dean. I know they are different tweeters but i'm still wondering what the freq. and what the reasoning could be? Ive already been doing major hardware experimenting so i'm not afraid to go down that road.... you gotta take some risks in life ! (like playing without screens in front of the drivers, which my daughter already damaged ofcourse) I ask this because ive read somewhere that a small dip in the frequency responce near 3k is actually more natural sounding wrt sounds with alot of diffuse reflections. CO

Been having lots of fun with my amp, its time to do some more modding on the RF-3s. The resistor trick does seem to even out the response a little, however i eventually took it out and left it that way Without was a little punchier. The quality of the resistor is very important. A wirewound didnt improve the sound as much as it deteriorated it. USparc, Can you clarify on the MER and MET caps, What are they precisely? Dean, Do you know the frequency of the notch filter on the horn and what the source of this problem could be? The Rf-3s dont have it and i wonder if they could use it. I think i will try those foil inducters. Does anyone know the values for the RF-3s? They seem to be printed under the components but i havent checked yet. Dean if i understand correctly you have only noticed problems regarding the DCR of the notch filter coil and not the other coils? Also i was wondering if i could go from 4th order to 2nd order on the tweeter if i didnt pump to many watts? Any ideas? What hapens to the phase? Thanks, Collin

Dean, I was looking at the singel driver method a while back and been eyeing those super 12 too. I must say however i believe they will go fairly low i dont think you will be satisfied with your listening volumes and its x-max of about 1mm each way. Collin

Yes Dean please tell us more! I still want to do some crossover mods but im more things im working on at the moment. Now that you have more top end do you think you might have to lower the tweeter level some? I know i have dropped mine on the RF-3s at least a few db's with series resistors. Im not sure but the impedance will change and move the crossover piont a little. Please tell us what you have noticed by swapping individual components. Have you compared the resistors with the originals? Inductor differences? If you have copied the original values of the original parts you must be able to tell where the biggest improvements can be made? I have ordered some 10W resistors to try the impedance trick leok mentioned. I have been thinking of this before. It probably will work better with tubes than SS. Later, Collin Ps; Has anyone ever played with a "gainclone"

Dean, Sorry, i didnt read about your son till now. I hope he pulls through. I dont think there much correctioning going on here with these basic cross-overs... When do you think youll be experementing with the caps? Do you know what kind of caps are used now? Do you have the values, only one of mine had something printed on it i think. Could you tell me the resistor value for the tweeter, i might someday want to try it on my RF-3s. Im using a few ohms to bring it down at the moment to bring it more in ballance. They are far from the back wall. I don't really understand what you are saying here. Both the RF-3 and RF-7 can be biamped or biwired. It's hard telling what the extra cap is doing without the schematic (at least, for me). Yours are fully split, mine are on one board if that makes an electrical difference? Yes. A major increase in performance in all areas (dynamics, low level detail, and extension). I'm sorry, I know that's not what you wanted to hear. ---------------- No, however i didnt mention that i have extended my horns and i could cut and paste your coments about the improvements exept for maybe the extention part. And im not kidding I wonder how much of an improvement there really could be left. Collin

Hello Dean, Is that all the stuffing Klipsch uses in the back there? or have you been experementing here as well? Can you (or anyone else) comment on the quality of the caps used in the crossover? My RF-3 crossovers look identical exept for there is an extra large black cap(probably because you can biamp the RF-7s ?) Do you think there is a major improvement in the tweeter compared to the RF-3s. As a frequent reader here i know you had the RB-5s you were very happy about whitch has the same tweeter. Im not talking in the cross over area (i know there is a subjective "hole in the responce" around there )but more in the upper frequencies? I can imagine its hard to say because your all into tubes these days and probably have not heard the RB-5s on good tubes yet? Thanks for the info. Collin

You might want to try to upgrade you power supply. I have found the sound gets mutch more controlled and more extension in the bass. You will need about a 100 watt transformer with a + and - 35V output. you can even try sealing the port for a less boomy sound. A little bracing does wonders as well. I have had VERY good results with mine. CO

Hello forum members, First of all i must say i love this forum for all of the experts that come here to share their knowlege to all who are interested. I am not an active member but i have read many many post over the last year since i got my first pair of Klipsch RF-3s. I wish a had found Klipsch earlier..........i cant keep my feet stil, and my one year old daughter "dances" to every new rythem that comes after another! I love them very much, but as everyone knows our ears are always evolving and they always manage to find a weak spot in any music chain. I have the older type 1 RF-3 speakers so i have the posibility to upgrade the wires and and i have read that the internal stuffing has been changed/added. Does anyone have any info on how this is done? I think a little more near (there is no stuffing in the bottom third now) the bottom might help. I would like to try to improve my RF-3 cross-overs. I have included a picture of my x-over so anyone familiar with these componets can give advice to wheather it is worthwhile or not. I know the right componets can make a big diference to the sound. I read here the the smaller inductors on the ALK crosovers for the K-Horn / LaScala were fitted with Lits-wire instead of solid for more definition in the sound. My drivers might not be capable of the same definition but i think they are very detailed already, so i am wondering if this might not improve the sound as well? I know i will never get the same sound as mabey the RF-7 but am hoping i can get more detail and a tighter sound. Any help would be appreciated. The largest inducter (0.75 mHy) has a laminated core (metal plates). I dont know if an air version would sound better, I know this is also used in elektrostatic speakers to amplify the voltage. the two smaller ones have dont have any value iether. If i rotate one of them so they their fields dont influence each other should help as well. As you can see the largest capaciter is 18 uFd. This big one is glued on top of another "flat type" like the other red one on the left. The other two have no value on them or i would have to break the glue fixing to check this better. The dont look like they are top notch brands (again no marking) but i could be wrong. Its too bad Al Klappenberger doesnt have any RF-3's to play with, im sure he could make these sound much better. Anyway thanks to all who can help. Coolin