Rhetor

Sure, yeah, right . . . "very, very long time" . . . Until the 100" plasmas show up at an affordable price (the cost of one of your children, whichever one you like the least). :-). Congrats on the new TV!! You should get a wall mount and move you 42" to your bathroom . . . With ESPN. Makes for a wonderful ambiance, and with acoustics, no need to move any Klipsch speakers in there . . . Well, maybe a couple of bookshelves (RB81s) hung on the wall, and then, just perhaps, one, and only one Klipsch 12" sub, well, and oh, just an RC62 center (an RC64 would be overkill (maybe not if it is cherry--reall wood looks nice in a bathroom), that would be about all you need, as long as the 42" tv is 3D, and you buy the new AVR that has multi zones so you do not have to have a separate amp; but speaking of amps, under the bathroom cabinet you could add a couple of mono blocks, and then . . . Be careful to save room for the magazine rack and toilet paper (well, the magazines may supplant a TP roll which would then become a redundancy taking up any unnecessary room. Oh, and just one more thing you could add . . . Seriously, congrats on the new big screen!

Won't hurt me to try...better than putting the RS51s back in their original boxes. Thanks.

Thanks for the tip . . . Will do. Just trying to also figure if I have a problem or not . . . Some bodies with good ears who have experience with both should know if the issue I am experiencing is normal or not. While I love reading, and definitely read the FAQs in that link . . . I did not know it was available . . . Just trying to get a quick tell on my issue . . . Normal? Or not normal to hear that kind of difference in K-horns and La Scalas?

Speakerfritz, I have read your posts and benefitted from many for 4 1/2 years now. When you talk, I listen. So, do you think then perhaps I have no real problem, that it may just be the need of K-horns for real corners to capture the bass in the K-horns and push it out? (or false corners in my log cabin log case.). Being a noob to K-horns and La Scalas, I just have no bank of listening experience with them, so everything could be working perfectly and what I am experiencing is normal?

This is not a poll, but a question to see if I have a speaker problem or just bad taste! While not new to Klipsch, I am new to vintage Klipsch. I recently picked up a pair of '76 La Scalas and then a pair of '79 K-horns. The La Scalas came with a blown tweeter and the same sounding like it had a blanket n it. The other speaker sounded like the tweeter crackeled at little. Opened the blown tweeter and diaphragm crumbled (would ruin even a new diaphragm, I knew). So, I came under the impression there is no exact diaphram match for the K-77 La Scalas, but that Crites had a diahram and a work around with a substitute horn, but still there existed no excellent exact replacement for the K-77 La Scala diaphram. So, Instead of just new 3rd party diaphragms (or Bob's intermediate workaround, I ordered and installed his CT125s . . . Wonderful, and made me very happy, but still a blanket over the sound of one. Recapped the AAs with Bob's kit . . . Amazing! Even the bass bins came alive, with acceptable. 2 channel thump! Then I got the K-horns, thinking, "If the La Scalas sound this great in two chanel, these K-horns are going to blow my ears off! No tweeter, mid, or woofer problem--all original, but just did not sound right, especially the highs and very weak thump. Mids on both were fine. Recapped the K-horns AAs with another Crites kit. Amazing, but still surprised at how little bass came out, but I guess that is what a sub is for. Then, I hooked the K-horns and the La Scalas on the same system and run a four channel flat setup. I love the result . . . Except . . . The La Scalas . . . Gulp . . . I don't want a beating here . . . But the La Scalas sound a little better to me than the K-horns, even like the La Scalas have a little more bass. Now, I know that should not be true according to all of the technical specs. So, just fielding ideas here . . . Might I have a little more problem with the K-horns than just the recap they needed? Would the Crites tweeters make the La Scalas sound better when hooked up together? The bass thing, more in the La Scalas than the K-horns when everything is equal and flat, is what really confuses me as a person new to vintage Klipsch and makes me think I might have a k-horn problem. I do have the K-horns n real corners. N a log cabin. I have not put the foam pipe covers on the bass bin backs yet to try to get a better corner seal yet, but I can't hardly imagine the foam pipe covers would raise that much more bass our of the K-horns even though my corners are logs rather than a perfectly flat surface. So, just think out loud with me, those of you who have lived with K-horns and La Scalas for a long time . . . Do I have a K-horn problem, or do La Scalas have more bass sound than K-horns or do they generally sound better than K-horns? The K-horns sond amazing, but my La Scalas sound more amazing than the K-horns . . . As a noob aware of the technical specs, I know that should not be . . . Looking for same insight from experienced members.

After checking to make sure there are no stray wires, the cheapest way is to have a friend bring over a high end AVR (since you are doing an ht 7.1 setup) and try it out. If your problem disappears, you know the yummy you have just can't drive the speakers. If there is still a problem, there is a speaker fault . . . Just unplug a pair of speakers at a time to isolate the single or pair overloading. Make sure to Power off the AVR when hooking and unhooking speakers. Cost? Free. If it is the AVR, then you would have to move to a separate amp . . . My guess would be on the RF82s . . . Or, look for a good used high end receiver if you can't buy new and sell the hammy to someone else. Cost? Finding a good buy takes time. But for nearly half off MSRP, then Denon 4311 is amazing for HT. there are better options for just music . . . Others can chime in, and we don't want to turn your thread into a "which receiver to buy"--there are other great forums for that. My answer is just to help with a quick, unsophisticated way to check if you have an AVR problem or a speaker problem. Hope it works out for you....nothing worse than when great equipment isn't operating right.

I'd keep them at the back or on the sides. the RS speakers are designed for surround placement (hence the S) and dispurse the sound a lot from side to side. you want to stick with speakers in front that push all the sound straight out. your RF-82's are made to go in front and I'd keep them there. I can't comment on which of the other speakers to use where as I have no personal experience with models that good. I've got 9.1 in one room and I really like it. while they talk about the benefit of the extra speakers for movies, I find it really enhances everyday TV sound. most content is 5.1 and so the rear surrounds really don't get much work while the extra speakers up front are in contstant use as my Yamaha receiver somehow divides the front sound. my receiver is technically only 7.1 and the front highs are what Yamaha calls presence speakers meaning there isn't truly a separate amplifier powering them so maybe it isn't right to call it a 9.1 system but I like it. Yeah, there is that S letter in the surrounds, so maybe just the RB61s as front heights or the Heresys? I just don't want to mess up the K-horn sound, but love the idea of getting as much speaker as possible involved when watching a movie. I am not quite sure even what front wides and front heights would add to the 7.1 for watching a movie. I like the idea, but am not sure if it adds anything. Of course, I would not employ front wides and front heights for music listening, but for HT, does either a 9.1 or 11.1 get me more in the movie experience? (with a Denon 4311, no multi zone for me . . . Just not feasible in a log cabin, and not necessary for our interest--we have a dedicated Pio for our only second zone.)

I am having a great time . . . A new empty-nester rediscovering vintage music and discovering vintage Klipsch speakers. I thin I will combine yours and Trag's advice and drag in a pro after I am done playing and am happy with my novice setups. :-). You are right, I should be using a La Scala center . . . But as a novice it feels like a sacrilege to slit the pair up. I will check out the powered sub forum. Martin Logan makes a an even bigger Descent sub, three 10 inchers in one cab. But it is amazing, even as the 3 8" powered woofers of the Depth sub. I actually had a hard time finding reviews in any forum on it. The problem is the price . . . the Depth is $2200 and the Descent is $3500 and they only go down to 20 he on the Depth and 18 on the Descent. The store I got mine from was closing and I got about 50% off a boxed new one. You can stack a lot of great subs that go a lot lower and are bigger than 8" each . . . Therefore, at full cost, just not a great bang for the buck. But for half off, amazing. ML just never discounts. I got lucky. I would definitely go Danleys, Paradigm, or Epiks if I had to pay full price for an ML. The recommended sub for my 4 year old Reference setup was the Klipsch 12" KSW, which would have needed two at a minimum. I just bought one at close out from new egg and it went into the office. Even two of those could not add much to K-horns and La Scalas, but work great with Heresys. So, I am torn here . . . Making the La Scalas the side surrounds is really just because I can't stand to split them up. I do have my eyes on a private sale of a local pair of Belles . . . If I can score those, I would have no problem using one of each in the HT setup and office setup as a center channel. I am working on buying them from a friend, but . . . Well, even though he is not using them well, he just is not ready yet to actually sell, and I can respect that . . . But we are talking. :-) So, with K-horns, the consensus seems to be . . . Do not use wide fronts or heights, it will just take away from the K-horn sound. I sure would have liked to put the RS51s and the RB61s right on top of the K-horns . . . Would have looked nice, but if it detracts from the function of the K-horns, I certainly do not want to do that!

Wow!

Now that the K-horns and La Scalas have the refreshed crossovers in and the La Scalas also have the new Crites CT125s installed, they both sound amazing. Funny, almost equal bass sound coming out of the bass bins. I know that is probably because I have not used the foam pipe wrap to seal the K-horns to the corners yes...the corners are log cabin logs, so virtually no seal . . . Home depot here I come. Before the caps refresh on the La Scalas, when I heard them, I heard very little bass . . . They sounded, bass wise, like my Heresys (which of course have very little bass because of the small cabinet. But after new caps, I am presently surprised by the bass coming out od the La Scalas.....I can see why they are a favorite for the two channel enthusiast. Well, on the Denon 4311, the La Scalas just do not sound good as wide fronts . . . So, it looks like they are going to move to side surrounds (move out RS52s), because I listen to a lot of multi channel stero--all the speakers wak up then. Anytime I just want two channel for music, can just hit the "pure direct" button on the AVR. Now it looks like then the RF82s will become the rear channel, then the RB61s will be the wide fronts and the RS52s will be the front heights for when I want to go 11.1, and keeping the RC62 as the center channel....we will see how that sounds with K-horns fronting and La Scalas as rear surrounds. Just hate to split up the Heresys just to make center channels. Have the Martin Logan Depth I for the sub...sounds great complimenting the K-horns and La Scala bass. For the music in the office then on my old Pio 94TXH AVR putting Heresys in as fronts (with risers). I have me nice peak KG2.2 I will use for a center (even though I know it is not a true center.). For side and back surrounds, I have a nice walnut pair and another nice oak pair of KG4s. So, to the basement shop, the first pair of vimtage speakers I bought and of absolutely marvelous sounding after new caps black painted KG2s and my Bozak Tempos. So, that is where I am . . . Until I find a great pair at a great buy of Belles . . . The search that started this whole mess! I still have not managed to find the right Belles at a great place and get them close enough to actually buy! They will be the fronts for my home office, if I ever capture that ghost! Thanks for the help, everybody. I love this forum!

You know, that is sincerely great advice . . . But . . . For me, this is a new hobby, not a destination. I am so greatly enjoying collecting vintage and repairing my own vintage finds, and then figuring out with forum community interaction what might work and what might not. For me the hobby and learning is my destination. If my destination were "ultimate home HT" I would definitely hire a pro, buy new, and let them install. But doing it collecting, repairing, and changing setups is my destination. But you give great advice, the same as I would if ultimate HT was third goal. Sincerely, thanks for the advice. Someone with a different goal than mine should definitely avoid this thread! :-)

Worth every penny paid and all of the time 7 hour roux trip that turned into 10) and trouble and trailers and gas and lifting and well, you all have done the same thing. getting them, and learning to solder, and recapping the crossovers and new washers in the mid driver and horn . . . And the cleanup. I would have bought these '79 K-horns new in 1979 if I had know the sound would have bee, well, so amazing!! Next? Putting the refreshed crossovers back into the La Scalas. Then foam pipe around the K-horn bass bins. Then Watco Danish Oil in neutral and 0000 steel wool to rub off some paint scuffs from somebody's walls, and then oil the very, very dry veneer on the K-horns! Then take the K-horns to a local cabinet maker here who repair the few veneer chips missing. Pics tomorrow.

Finally the freshly recapped crossovers in and the speakers hooked up (don't have the bass bins sealed yet with foam pipe covers), but . . . How do the K-horns sound? . . . . . AMAZING!!!! Wow!!! I have never heard an equally amazing speaker! And, I can tell that after I get the bass bins sealed and back against the wall, I doubt I am going to need the sub on when listening to smile two channel! I can't wait to hear them in the HT setup! I sincerely believed it could not get better than my La Scalas for drones, but was I wrong! I have been listening for four years using RF82s for fronts and two channel music. I have been very satisfied with the RF82s . . . Great speakers for HT and two channel. But after harking the K-horns today, the RF82s are moving to the back of the bus and are going to become my rear back surrounds! K-horns = amazing . . . And until today . . . I did not even know it! But there will always be a place in my heart for my first biog Klipsch speakers, the RF82s. But, the refreshed K-horns . . . Wow! And, hearing before and after with old oil can caps (that were still working and not too far out of spec), the sound post cap refresh . . . Amazing. Glad I pfiished a recap of the new old La Scalas too.s. Now, the stuff arrived for the Heresys . . . I don't think they need caps, but they are getting them anyway! Did I tell you those K-horns sound amazing!!!! My jaw did nit the floor!

I Yeah, same thing on a Pio I have . . . But on the Denon 4311 can use the extra four channels, each on two other zones, can be used with the 7.1 to make 11.1 or 11.2. Thanks for heads up.

Sounds like it definitely is worth the shot. They are dry . . . From the dirt inside the top hat, I am confident they never were even vacuumed there, and confident they were never recoiled by the paint scuffs left by slamming them into place the one time he moved them from his Dad's place to his own. My La Scalas and Heresys are raw birch. I am thinking about giving them a light sanding . . . With like 400 grit and sandpaper, then putting on a clear lacquer, maybe a simple wipe on lacquer. On the La Scalas the tops and backs seem to be completely still raw (just like my Heresys are totally raw birch), but it looks like there may have been a super light coat of lacquer on the fronts and sides (codes on stickers are LS-BR and HDBR). I have no desire to wreck them by painting, and have no desire for a stain. I love the raw birch look, but like the idea of just adding lacquer after a light sanding to get 36 years of ingrained house and storage dirt off of them. So, how does one clean up the surface of raw birch? Then, if I still feel like a light coat of clear lacquer, what would I use? Or, would it be to use the Watco Natural Oil and 0000 steel wool? Would raw birch look good after a Watco Natural Oil put on with steel wool and then wiped off? I know that the La Scalas and the Heresys have never seen a hint of oil....completely dry now.

If I go natural, Am I blowing my opportunity to get my color back later in the washed out area?

I have decided to go with Watco Danish Oil and some 0000 steel wool. Going to try that to get some of the paint scuffs off, to oil these dry puppies, and . . . Somebody had a,plant on top . . . Stained top with some darker color from soil, I am sure, but much of the stain in the 12 inch circle has washed out. So, I need to use one of the Watco Walnut Danish Oil products . . . To get some color back in the washed out light area . . . Does anybody know what color of the Watco Danish Oil I need to use . . . Light, Dark, or Medium Grade . . . Just want to buy the right one without buying them all. Which walnut oil would match 1979 K-horns? Light walnut, dark walnut, or medium walnut? Thanks!

I hope so . . . Was a 10 hour round trip with an additional 3 hours delay because of a mud slide! My wife and I loaded them ourselves, etc, etc, quite an adventure . . . Then getting them into the house . . . ourselves was another adventure . . . . Then, learning to install new caps . . Destroying two new Sonic caps in the process . . . They better sound great! Ha! Ha! When I auditioned them, the guy was using them as rear surrounds because he did not have any other corners. His dad bought them new in 1979 and gave them to his son when he down-sized. The son only had room for the K-horns as rear surrounds. So, I did not hear much from them when I auditioned them. I had to wait a week to go back with cash and hope they were still available the day I could go get them . . . We got home at 3 AM and of course left them overnight in the enclosed trailer. My wife agreed to let me buy them . . . Sight unseen. She had never even seen a pic of K-horns . . . I was on a trip . . . She hit the bank, had a neighbor help her hook up the trainers to th pick-up, drove five hours with our two dogs one way . . . Waited on me to get there three hours late from the mudslide, saw them . . . He had already unhooked them . . . She helped me disabble the tophats and grills, helped load . . . Then followed me home, arriving at 3 am. The next day, we disassembled the living room to get them in. Had a fiend who knows speakers come over to listen on Sunday night . . . We diagnosed a cap problem. Called thir family Crites on Monday AM and put the new caps in last night. So, neither of us have heard the K-horns before except for a few minutes with bad caps. Even our La Scalas with bad caps after putting the new C125 tweeters in . . . Tested again, one sounded great, the other like it had a blanket on it but the tweeter worked fine with the new one in it. So, we are excited to get the recapped crossovers in and give both the La Scalas and the K-horns a real audition! So, with all of the work in them already, I am sure hoping they are as amazing as everyone claims, and I expect and hope we are both blown away. The best speakers I have had to date are the Klipsch RF82s I bought four years ago and have been using as my fronts, with an RC62 center, RS52 surrounds, and RB61s in back . . . We have absolutely loved those smaller speakers in a 7.1 setup. Hoping we love the K-horns, La Scalas, Heresys, KG4s even more . . . The little KG2s are ugly, so they went into my basement shop . . . Too ugly for the house . . . Scuffed up black paint (though I think they started life as walnut--no stickers on th back anymore). So, since we love our RF82s and even our little KG2s, I am hoping a real Heritage setup with K-horns and La Scalas and Heresys--repaired and refreshed will blow us away. I will take some picks after it is all set up. Thanks for the encouragement and help. I am new to buying vintage speakers, freshening and repairing them, and then matching them up. Only been at it for a little over a month.

I am definitely new to the big horns . . . Only listened to them long enough to diagnose the problems . Even then, the problems made any listening disappointing, but enough to make sure the woofers, mods, and tweeters were functional . . . But the 33 year old caps were worn out and physically leaking. I am looking forward to getting the crossovers back in now that the new caps are on and riding the listening post tonight. My room is about 25 feet wide by 30 feet long . . . All wood, with an nine foot high wood ceiling . . . The back wall is wood enclosed staircase (up the center of the house, save for two open ends (no doors on that back wall . . . Just walk through). Actually, very lively, but do not need sound deadening . . . Just right for HT. It is a log cabin and th house shakes when I crank up the Marting Logan sub . . . With the three 8 inch internal, balanced and synchronized woofers in the sub, it is an experience that literally shakes the house. The first time I cracked the sub up . . . We had to scramble to get away from the falling dust chuckles between the wood slats in the ceiling! We had only lived in the 25 year old house for a little while when I tried it. Had some leaking caps in the K-horns, so I am anxious to get the crossover I put the sonic caps from the Crites' back in and hook up in the two excellent corner. I do have to put the pipe foam on the back to deal them a little.

The sub runs three 8 in powered woofers in it . . . It really is sufficient . . . More than enough for me, too much for my wife. The Martin Logan Depth i performs so well I have had to keep it down to literally keep from shaking the house. And a good sub is about feeling the bass . . . Feels like a vibrating chair now! I have only had the La Scalas for a couple of weeks and the K-horns for a week . . . Mostly unplugged waiting for Crites C125 in the La Scalas (now in) and cap replacements for the crossovers in both . . . Done last night. So, this evening going to start plugging stuff in for real for the first time . . . The reason for my question is that all of the Heritage stuff has been bought, tested, and now, as of last night, upgraded. I only listened to any of it for a few minutes individually, just long enough to identify problems . . . One tweeter blown on a La Scala, and muddy sound out of the other--crossover caps. The K-horns were disappointingly underwhelming, but functional . . . And I could see 33 year old leaky caps, so the needed replacement . . Putting the reworked crossovers back in tonight and starting the plug up. May wind up using one Heresy for a center in each setup. I know it is almost a waste to put the La Scalas as front wides, but they really do look amazing . . . I might. Leave them in the frot and just set them up on a two channel and the smaller Klipsch sub for music only--don't want to put them in the little used office. Again, outing the La Scalas as rears would not really use them effectively, would it? Rears are just some basic action sounds, right! Yeah, I know it all sounds like overkill, but the kids are through college and we are empty-nesters . . . We do staycations instead of expensive vacations to Disney-world. Our home is our retreat center and preferred vacation destination . . . We like our rented movies over ever going to a movie theater and love our music of many genres. So, yeah, this is our ne area of overkill. And, when I started looking for heritage Klipsch stuff the last coule of months, well, just found some amazing killer deals and had some time to drive. Just in that sweet spot between raising kids and really thinking about putting a decade on retirement. And . . . I could not stop myself when I found a killer deal within driving distance for the truck and trailer. This started off a the purchase of a couple of working black KG2s . . . Then a pair of KG4s . . . Then, well . . The rest is a list I am trying to relocate in the house.

Good sized space . . . This is more of "because the Denon 4311 allows me to" . . . It does 7.1 and will allow me either to add two more 2 zones, or do 11 channel. I have no desire for multi zone. I have enough speakers, so, decided to use all of the speakers and one of them 11.1, one HT and one home office.

Before I moved my speakers all into place, I am going 11.1 . . . Trying to incorporate Klipschorns, La Scalas, and Heresys. Using themK-horns for mains, but am only guessing with the LaScalas and Heresys. So, critique away! Denon 4311 AVR Fronts: 1979 klipschorns Wide Front: 1976 La Scalas Front Heights: 1984 (1.5) Heresys Center: RC62 Side Surrounds: RS52s Rear Surrounds: RF82s Subwoofer: Martin Logan Depthi ) Here are other Klipsch vintage speakers I own which could be used instead. What does not go into the 11.1 setup listed,above, will be moved to an office 7.1 setup AVR: Pioneer SVX-94THX KG4s (oak) KG4s (walnut) KG2s RB61s Bozak B201 Tempos (walnut 3-ways) Subwoofer: Klipsch KW12 Ideas? Am I on the right track? Is something missing? I would like to get help soon in deciding . . . Don't want to reset it all twice! Thanks to you all in advance!

That is what I did, though the ideas are so good, gonna pick some up at RS next time I'm out. Thanks everybody, recapped crossovers for the very first time . . . recapped two sets (4 in all) of AA crossovers, one set for my new old La Scalas and one set for my new old Klipschorns. Of course, I destroyed two 2mf caps on the process (burnt one with soldering iron, broke one wire off at cap base) . . . Will have to wait on the new ones to arrive to recap the Heresys I picked up. Thanks!

Where is a good source to get the insulating sleeves to put over the wires on the caps that are exposed when you replace old caps with new caps on crossovers?

Makes sense . . . But Watco NATURAL oil even though they are walnut oil?