Technocrafts

Is there any difference between the S4 and S4 II? I'm just curious.

Yes, the one I got was exclusively made for Westone, branded with the company logo. FiiO's signature is also visible on it in very fine prints. I don't know their secrets, but the thing really perfoms pretty good. It offers three settings: one bass boost, one straight trough and a third with a more timid bass boost. I see the generic version for little over $25 at amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005OUIIFA/ref=asc_df_B005OUIIFA2413395?smid=AFKH6OU9WWNFS&tag=dealtmp894105-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B005OUIIFA, apparently holding its value. Now I'm just getting ready to buy the E9K.

Actually a friend of mine had a cheap C-Moy amp a few years ago, I didn't listen trough it extensively but for what I can tell, it sounded very good. There are excellent budget solutions from FiiO as well, my Westone3 shipped with the E6, which can be had for $25 or maybe even less. The amp is very small and perfomrs great with IEMs, I'm not sure about big cans though. I wouldn't expect neither Apple nor Klipsch to develop portable amps, the expected sales volume wouldn't make the effort worthy. Most people are happy with their iphone sound with the white buds, only a few thousands of us are into this higher end audio thing. Let's not forget the horrible economy, that doesn't help either.

The only thing I can recommend is to listen trough the X10 exclusively for a week, and try focusing on the details of the music. A good audio source like your stereo you mentioned, should make the sound recording more reveling and your listening experience more engaging. Soon you will discover that the bass though appears to be less pronounced, it is actually more detailed. The muddy bass you hear from lower end ear phones are overpowering most of the middle-range, and it isn't really deep bass what you hear, only the illusion of it. It is more like mid and upper mid-bass hump, while the lower range below 50 Hz is not even audible. Like for instance, I downloaded once an album from Trentemoller, back than I only had a pair of Sennheiser CX-300, which I regarded at that time the best ever... I really thought the album mentioned was drums and bass, I did not hear anything else. Years later when I re-auditioned the album trough and amp and a pair of triple driver IEM, the thick heavy bass disappeared from the recording, but I realized I never even heard that album before...The bass was actually a combination of several synthesized bass instruments with intricate details, chords and key modulations that took my breath away. The X10s are actually bass heavy, and they don't have a lot of aire extension, but from a single armature based solution not much more can be expected, they perform excellent considering that fact. I can assure you, your patience will be rewarded...

I can assure you, the X10i does not lack on bass at all, in fact, the awesome clear and layered bass of the X10 what makes the gear one of my top favorite. I'm sure you have a perfect hearing, but you may be addicted to one note bass. Myself was afflicted by this epidemic, before high end portable gear became affordable. Likely you have one of the newer iPods, they are really not the best regarding sound quality either, even with higher bit-rate encoded music or lossless. A portable amp can help tremedously, but they are expensive. One of the great advantage of the iPod is the LOD, so you can get the signal out of the player directly, bypassing the player's low grade opamp. This amp would be a great option: http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=73 but when you add the LOD cable (a good one would run close to $30) and shipping cost, may not be all that attractive.

Yep, the HD595 is very analytic indeed, I had the chance to test drive a pair thoroughly. I love the added bass extension of the HD600, and that gear is somewhat more forgiving. I can imagine your thrill with the HD800, I don't think I want to expose myself to it, I'm afraid I will want a pair after hearing what many claimed to experience who either have them or tried them. A sound source upgrade would serve me better than yet another pair of headphones or IEM, though I would love to add the Image One to my collection, I really liked what I heard when I auditioned a pair. Maybe they will come on sale one day... The SE535 was also on the list of my targets, but I came across a very good sale on a pair of Westone3, so I went for that instead. Like yourself, I was not in need for another pair of IEMs when I found the X10s on sale at Amazon, but I couldn't pass it on, and they were also on my list to obtain a pair if I ever find a good sale, so here they are. I wasn't sure whether I would keep them, until I heard their sound. As you also noted, the real price north of $300 is way too high, since you can find a huge selection in that price range that clearly outperform the x10/x10i by a significant margin. Most of them feature replaceable cable, I think that would serve Klipsch better to offer as an option instead of the apple remote crap. I would not want that garbage on any of my audio gear, I would even choose to pay extra if I really like something, that doesn't have that feature. I don't care if the whole world uses the crappy iphone as sound source, it has nothing to do with sound quality IMHO. The last ipod was the 5.5 video, and I believe the second generation of iPhone that featured Wolfson audio codec. My 6-th generation classic's headphone jack is nearly intact, I never use it. Maybe one day when I'll get a Samsung Galaxy, but until then I will only use my 5.5 video as audio player without amp.

No, we have not been brainwashed into believing that multi-BA ear pieces perform better, they actually do. The Custom3 did, The now defunct UE/Logitech Triple-fi 10 does, The 3 armature 3way Westone3 does, not even mentioning the 4 armature Westone4, it is simple physics. The real strenght of the Image X10s that they are able to closely match the performance of the multi-driver IEMs, and as you metnioned, they are very comfortable. Another major X10 "signature climb" is bass. The tiny plugs can thunder with so much power, they put some high performance sub-woofers to shame.

Interesting, I thought BA transducer based sound gear did not reqire any burn-in, but I guess this may be subject to each individual. Over a year I did not notice any change in my x10s sound, but I can't say I've been using them a lot. I have them with me all the time, but I can only get to hear music at work or elsewhere on the go occasionally. These are very smooth sounding phones indeed, but I would not regard their sound balanced, it is rather bottom heavy, albeit the bass is crisp, clear and layered and not drowning. Probably I'm being overly critical, since I do most of my music listening trough my hd-600s, now that's balanced sound! Anyway, it's another story, my focus here should stay on the x10s. You mentioned Total Bithead, I'm using the iBasso D2 Boa, wich is antiquated by now, but it does a great job smoothing out the lousy crap that would come out from the ipod/iphone phone jack( since they moved away from Wolfson), extracting the signal trough the LOD instead. Encoding rate does make a big difference I agree, I have a good collection of FLAC, ALAC ripped music, but well produced albums sound acceptable at 256 kbits as well.Poorly mastered studio recording or low bit-rate is definitely revealed trough the x10 as well as trough any other high end gear, a good indication of high definition sound. How is it possible to accomplish that feat with a single armature, it is beyound me. These tiny plugs pump so much bass, like a powerful subwoofer, you almost feel your bones rambling, incredible. I still prefer more balanced sound though with deep and layerd bass, that does not bleed into the higher range. I also have a few set of comply tips for my westies, they fit the x10s perfectly, I just tried them on the x10s since you mentioned. You right, the sound is definitely better, but for different reasons than more efficient seal. The foam allows some of the mid-bass hump to leak out and makes the sound more airy, it gives you a sence of wider sound stage. I think I will keep these on from now on, thanks for mentioning. The s4s are out for me, there's no going back. I was euphoric when I first got them, that time the sound of my beloved Costum3s that got stolen was distant memory. The Triple-fi 10 sealed the deal for me that came to my posession only a few weeks after I got the s4s. I went from bass head to audiophile almost at an instant, now I can't even tolerate the sound from my one time old favorite cx-300 or s4 for that matter, the two sound almost identical...I hope others won't take insult in this remark, I don't mean to trash the s4s, they present a very good value, especially if someone upgrading from stock phones bundled with mp3 players.

I own both, the s4s and x10s, I can definitely assure you the difference between the two is day and night. I stopped using the s4s a long time ago, when I got my first pair of triple diver IEM from UE/Logitech. The s4's sound was unbearable once I heard the clarity and details from the Triple-fi 10. I found that the s4s sound were drowning in bass and lacking detail. About a year ago I picked up a pair of x10s during the Amazon sales back than, I just couldn't believe their awesome performance right out of the box. I also have a pair of Westone3, which is a three way triple driver, and the Image x10's sound signature closely resembles that of the W3. Naturally the w3 has a greater extension on the higher end, somewhat more details and better sound stage, but the difference is subtle between the w3 and x10. If you find your s4s to outperform the x10s, chances are you got a defective pair of x10. Coincidentally I stumbled upon my old pair of s4s just a few days ago, so I wanted to try them again to see how they would sound from an ipod 5.5 video rockboxed, well, I couldn't finish listening trough a single album, all I heard was colored sound with heavy bass, some poor mid-range colored with upper -mid bass hump, and abysmal high end. At least they are not sibilant... No way your x10s can perform that bad, provided they are authentic and not defective, even if you don't get a good seal from the factory installed gels

Back than as I followed all the comments, most of the C3 owners complaind of cable falure over fitting issues, though it took me weeks before I found the sweet spot with the best fitting. I had the same issue with the TF-10, none of the supplied ear tips worked for those either. A pair of double flange aftermarket gels from ebay fixed the problem...Regarding the C3's cable, I did not have any issues either, the gear was stolen from me unfortunately before any chance for them to get defective. I will always cherish their memories, those were my first true high end IEMs ever. Regarding the X-5, I also believed they perfom better than the X-10, having only a brief encounter with the later. Now, after getting my hands on a pair of X-10, I tend to disagree. While the X-5's overall sound is definitely more balanced and analyitc, the X-10s offer more details, and the bass on them blows many other high end IEM's out of the water. I could hardly believe this would be a single armature solution, I'm not sure how can that be! I'm also pleasantly surprised of the sound stage of the X-10, the X-5s were totally lacking on that area. I find the X-10's performance somewhat similar of what I remember the C3. Regarding sound source, I find the older ipod better, namely the 5.5 generation ipod video with rockbox firmwhare. I agree with most of those who find the newer apple player's sound performace inferior to those with Wolfson audio chip. The cables are replaceable on several high end IEMs (Sure SE-535, UE Triple-fi 10 and 10 Pro, Sennheiser IE-8, IE-80, etc.), but not on all of makes unfortunately. Cost is probably the highest factor when they make the decision on that before the product goes into production. Replaceable cable more than likely would have saved the bacon for the Custom series as well...

The sound sig of the C3 as I remember it was warm, but balanced overall, with the high frequency range somewhat rolled off, to avoid sibilance. From my audio gear collection, the HD-600 headphones and the UE-triple-fi 10 IEMs offer the most high end extention, to my taste that region is especially important, but many others have a hard time tolerating hf range that powerful. The HD-600s literally pull your music apart, with the proper rate of encoding you hear every nuisance. The TF-10 IEMs aren't far behind either, those two mentioned would give me the highest sound resolution. In comparison, the Klipsh lineaup offers a more laid back presentation with somewhat less details, but warmer sound signature. The S-4 is way too dull for my taste, and so are all the Sony's. I tried several of them, and ended up returning all of them. The MDR-EX-700 came closest to my expectations, but the hf range on them was too shrill, harsh. Otherwise imaging and sound stage was reasonable. Hearing is subjective to say the least, so I'm not sure what to say, other than your C3 likely was fried. Also possible that you are too sensitive to sibilace, and a greater hf roll-off is more suitable to your taste. Nothing is wrong with that, in that case you may want to avoid most of BA based sound gear. That would explain why you prefer the S-4s better. If the Sennheiser IE-8 would fit your budget, you would definitely love those.

I have Custom 2 and Image x10. I've heard just about all the models I think of the iem's except maybe the Lou Reed signature Image x10i and those the differences may be all cosmetic.. The Custom 3 are phenomenal. The Custom models do take a lot of work to find optimum seal for the best bass. It took me two months to really figure out how to shove 'em in correctly for the best bass. You either have countfeit Custom 3 or the previously owner trashed them out. I'm sure they could be overdriven to destruction. Post some pictures including all packaging etc. There's no way those could be real Custom 3 as bad as you described the sound. I'd be trying to return if you have the receipt. If you have the receipt and bought from an authorized seller in the US then you can return to Klipsch. If you bought them used from eBay then I'd still contact the seller. Something's not right with them. I'm not sure about counterfeiting of different models. I think it was late November or December of 2011 Klipsch filed suit against 23 manufactuers of counterfeit Image S4 in China. If you're in a different country then you need to go through whoever you bought them from I think. Good luck. I have to reinforce Ben's statement that no way in Hell you can have an original pair of Custum 3 that would sound as bad as you described! I have several high end IEMs, among them two triple drivers, such as the Westone3 and UE-Triple-fi 10, and I can tell you the Custum 3 more than stands the ground against them! Besides the C3 I had several others from the Klipsch lineaup, currently I have the X-10 and Image S-4. Among all, the X-10 takes the crown. The previous owner definitely fried either one of the drivers in the unit, or some components of the circuitry may have been zapped, I noticed that the X-10 and the previously owned X-5 both are prone to static buildup, I got zapped by them several times. Unfortunately for you, you never got to hear the real C3, I bet. I hope the lead design engineer's wish will come trough, and one day the C3 will be re-introduced as a wintage pruduct...(with a cable upgrade) Kipsch rocks!

I find the older ipod, such as the ipod video 5.5 with Rockbox to have excellent synergy with the X-10. Everything encoded at 256 kbits and over sounds like magic. The X-10's amazing sound rivals even the Westone3, which is a 3-way triple ba driver based IEM. If you are getting less than stellar sound out of your X-10s, I would recommend to try another sound source if that's an option.

"Looks like you have a X10 aswell, between the X10 and S4 which one do you from your personal use and experience you feel the music is more perfect ? Say for e.g Club Music, Dance Music, Vocals ?" X-10 all the way! You get all the bass you want, plus clarity and details that only expensive high end voice coil based IEMs can match, such as the Sony MDR-EX1000, which is almost four times the price of the X-10.

Too bad you missed the black Friday sale at amazon, the x-10 was going for $95. If you shop around, maybe with luck you will find a pair around $100. I would recommend them over the s-4 any time. The x-10's bass extension reaches if not even exceeds that of the s-4s with much better clarity and details, while the high extension on them rivals most triple driver IEMs north of $300 price range. Strongly recommended.

IMHO it all comes down to synergy. Based on my experience, the Image X-10 sounds best with a 5.5 gen iPod video, but my Westone 3s perform a lot better if I add a Fiio 6 miniamp to the mix. The other hand, nothing I own sounds good from the 6-th gen iPod classic's headphone out, but powering a pair of UE- Triple-fi 10 from the same source trough the LOD and and iBasso T3 or a more powerful D2 Boa, I was in Hi-Fi heaven for two years. None of the Klipsch IEMs I own ever produced decent sound trough the mentioned amps, only from the iPod's heaphone out. But this is my peronal experience, and portable audio is very subjective to say the least. What works for you or me, may not please others, so it is really hard to argue what is the best source for any particular ear piece or audio gear.

I did too, just got in on the deal probably in the last minutes. I can't wait to hear how these will stack up to the existing triple driver IEMs I have, the X-10s are one of the higher tiers I never got the chance to try, until now.

Glad you enjoy it Techno. Flight Of The Cosmic Hippos was my first Bela Fleck and the Flecktones CD. I've purchased a few others since then. The Right This Minute thread has some great music. Some people with some really cool collections. Thanks Ben, I'll definitely check out that thread later. I'm not into jazz, but this masterpiece really grabbed me, I think I'm ready to grab a few more Fleck albums. Which ones are your most favorite?

Awesome album Ben, I ended up buying it.

Open aire type designs such as the one you mentioned or some of the Senn HD series like the 238 or the 600's do not provide any level of noise attenuation, therefore those are not suitable for audition in a noisy environment or when you would disturb others with the music material that will be quiet audible around you. I'm yet to find though any IEMs or closed type headphones that would offer the nice airy sound, unbelievable details and multi-layered sound stage the open cans put out. Even the cheapo HD-238 would beat the daylight out of many full size AE closed cans that are many times more expensive. That said, I'm still glad to witness the birth of the first Klipsch headphones, let's hope that the design will perform strong enough on the market to allow the evolution and a more luxurious Image model will come forth with the voicing of the awesome X-5 and nice airy sound.

I hope that was close-out of the X5 in original packaging and new and improved strain reliefs (gasoline proof?)? For some reason I think the packaging and accessories are different when I last looked. Kind of like when the Image x10i came out the standard Image x10i packaging changed? I'll be really sad if the Image X5 is no longer available. I think they sound better than the x10. A lot better to me. You right on the money with that one Ben, I doubt any other single BA IEM can touch the X-5s with a ten foot pole...They never disappoint, no matter what I listen trough them.

Audio Advisor is very reputable, I purchased my x-5 trough them as well, I was very satisfied with the deal and delivery was fast and smooth, at least from their part. Highly recommended!

Hi Technocraft, Please read the reply to markjohnsonii post above, I have mentioned about the seal. Is the large double flage gels something I have to buy separately? I have 3 gels large, medium and one double flage gels which comes with the klipsch. I could get some reasonable sound after messing around with my media player equalizer. But the Sansa Fuze is still does not sound good. But on a positive note the noise isolation is very impressive.It even isolates the bollywood songs I listen on the Bose HT . I will continue to experiment with the Sansa Fuze EQ. I'm clueless why would some new owners have this negative experience, I have to reaffirm that personally I found the s-4s bass-heavy even with the medium singe single flange gels. In fact, among the many iems I ever tried or owned, those produced the most amount of bass that I can still call sound quality. I know the lp-90s markjohnii mentioned, I bought a pair last year and they went back to the store, I did not like the bass they produced, neither the rest of the sound spectrum. I also have an old pair of ex-71 from Sony, to my taste those perform a lot better than the lp-90 by a country mile. South of the $100 price range IMO nothing can touch the cx-300 and the image s-4 with a ten foot pole. That's my opinion. I have no experience with the sansa players, I never heard the sound from any of them. My current rig is a 6-th gen ipod classic lod-ed to an ibasso t3 for a pair of ue-triple fi 10, or ibasso d2 boa to drive a pair of sennheiser hd-238. I favor though the Klipch image x-5 just straight out of the ipod when I don't want to haul the amp and the bulky titanium case of the triple fi. The large double flange gels do fit the image s-4s,but they are are only bundled with the higher end Klipsch plugs so you have to buy them separately. I'm using those with the x-5 and they work great.

I know this thread is little old for this post. But I bought my Klipsch S4 today from bestbuy. The bass of my 20$ $ sennheiser CX300 is thousands better than the 80$ dollar Klispch I currently own. I use the smaller seals because the other one were a little big. I am taking it back to bestbuy tomorrow. Hopefully they will replace these and the other one's sound better and to what everyone is claiming. Up till now very disappointed with the Klipsch S4 headphones. I posted earlier to reply, I don't see it here yet. Anyway, the problem you describe is bass leak caused by poor seal I guarantee. I still have one of the first series of the cx-300, I always loved them. The bass from the s-4 is punchyer and lot more powerful though. In fact, now that I'm adjusted to a more natural sound, the s-4 is too bass heavy for my taste. I would recommend to pick up the large double flage gels from Klipsch, that may solve the problem.

techno- Can you PM or email me a list of other artists that dabble in world music, fusion, and ambient? I really like the style, especially at work (system analyst, stare at code and specs all day) and the samples Ive listened to from what you listed so far have me kind of turned on to 2. Banco de gaia sounds awesome, as does Juno Reactor and Shpongle. Do you have any more suggestions? Wow, systems analyst? When I was working on my degree for IT, systems analysis was the only subject I truly hated. Case tools, all the nonsense fact finding interviews, etc. I can only admire you that you can hang in there...Here's more stuff: If you haven't done so, make sure to grab a few albums of Sounds From The Ground, starting with Luminal.(It will blow you away). Terra Firma is another great one from them, than Brightwhitelight from 2008. Simon Posford of Shpongle is heading more than one project, Younger Brother is one of them, really good, try The last Days of Gravity. If you like ambient, Entheogeneric, Blue-Tech, Magic Sound Fabric, Zero One of Kevin Dooley (I already mentioned that), Sundial, Solar Fields, Asura, those are all awesome. Paul Hardcastle released a decent keyboard album, called Zero One, but it has no association with Kevin Dooley's project, or if it does, there are no similarities. Than you can check out Kreidler, Eat Static, the now disolved Orbital, etc. If you like bass, try Trentermoller and Bass Mekanic, they out of this world. Of course I asume I don't need to mention the Veterans, such as Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream (Booster was Froese's latest work), etc. I hope I gave you enough to search for, though this may not be the most appropriate subject for this tread, I would hate to anoy other Klipsch fans with this stuff. If you have any further questions regarding electronic music or computers, here's my email: Tehnozo@aol.com . Have a lot of fun...