ThomBoh

So, if I'm understanding right, if one wanted to go the DSP route, it will absolutely be required to have three separate stereo power amps, one for each frequency range? (e.g. one amp driving left hf and right hf, one amp driving left mids and right mids, and one amp driving left lf and right lf)? Can't get away with, say, two amps? Even if you don't factor in the cost of tri-amping, it sounds like the inclusion of the DSP electronics will mean that these new versions will likely cost significantly more than the AL5 and AK6, which are already very expensive. Exciting but kind of terrifying in that sense. Also, will AL5/AK6 owners be able to upgrade the active DSP xover, or only be able to upgrade the horns and drivers?

Yeah it's the change I'm most excited for tbh lol.

One thing I'm curious about: although the La Scala AL5s are rated down to 53 Hz, I have found from REW measurement using a calibrated microphone that below ~90 Hz, the bass response drops like a stone. No change in placement (moving them around in the corners that they are in) seems to be able to change this. Hence the absolute necessity of having the REL 212s, which are crossed over at about 90 Hz which is very high. The KHorns are rated down to 33 Hz. Given my LS only made it down to 90 Hz instead of 53 Hz, I'm wondering what to realistically expect from the KHorns in room? I'm really hoping that they can get down to at least 40 Hz before losing SPL so that subs don't have to be covering such a large frequency range. I know that nobody can say for sure how they'll perform in my room, but if anyone has anecdotes about measured bass response of LS vs KH in their rooms I would be interested to hear it!

I would say that the acoustic ramifications are about equal to the other needs here. I don't want to be taking a downgrade from how things sound now, but yeah I really would like to clean up the arrangement of the room and footprint of what I currently have. As for the TV, I'm actually moving it to another room. I rarely use it and I have a nice atmos soundbar system with its own sub that I can use on the rare occasion that I do. Doesn't sound as good as my hifi system but that's fine. I don't want this room to be TV centric and would rather it just be a nice hang out space where seating doesn't need to be oriented towards a screen. Anyway, for subwoofer, my plan would be to either keep one of my 212s, or drop in my REL HT1510, either of which should be able cover the KHorns well up to 40 Hz where I suspect they'll start losing steam. Thanks for sharing your experience! It does give me pause. I read your thread from when you were trying to decide, and I (perhaps naively) feel like you did in that I would expect the Khorn and La Scala to sound the same except for the bass, given that the tweeter horn and mid horn + drivers appear to be identical? Although that seems not to be the case. Thanks for the input! If I could dig in a little more into what you mean: when you say 4ft of wall on either side, you mean flat wall extending out from either side of each Khorn from where the khorn ends? I agree that the windows hurt this on 3 out of 4 sides. But for what it's worth, the windows only impeded ~half of the height of the bass bin. I wonder if that'll help. Re: not being wide enough to image properly, are you talking purely about tweeter/mid horn angle due to corner placement (which could be, to some degree, aided by toe out) or are you implying that the windowframes compromising the bass horn extension will hurt imaging? Thanks again for your thoughts!! General question: this isn't a dealbreaker if not, but I'm wondering if there are any comprehensive professional reviews of the new AK6 model from any publication that are positive? The vast amount of what I've found written about KHorns on the internet (and on this forum) are not about the AK6 (which is understandable given their super high cost), but I would like to read as many impressions as I can as I mull things over.

Sure is, but I can't disingenuously show up to someone's home to try their speakers unless I want to buy them. Hence I hope to get answers to the questions I'm asking about how well the bass extension will work in my corners, and how well they'll compare to my AL5s in my room

Pulled out to where they sound best, my La Scala have an effective foot print of 3.5' x 3.25' measured from the corner. Even in an extreme case where I have the Klipschorns facing with the tweeter horizontally along the room, their footprint would be 2.3' x 2.6' ish feet. So I think no matter what I'm winning with the KHorns. But also, part of why I want to do this is to eliminate the need for my pair of REL 212/SX subs to add bass to the La Scalas. The 212s need to be out in the room to sound good and have a huge foot print themselves. I'm hoping that the bass extension of KHorn in my room would allow me to replace them with one smaller single-driver sub (like a REL HT 1510). So maybe a better way of rephrasing this question is: will AK6s placed in these corners be able to use the corner loading effectively enough to give me good bass response? Higher freq stuff is important too obviously, but again I assume I can fix that with toe. In reading people's analysis of Stereophile's poor review of the AK6, I saw a lot of people saying that he just doesn't have a good room for KHorns. He also had his on a 12' wall if I recall, although the length of his room was much shorter than mine (17'?). That's definitely the plan if I decide I'm serious about them

I appreciate that. Can I not just fix that with toe-out? They're AK6 so they don't have to be snugly sealed to the corner because the backs are sealed. At least Klipsch makes it sound like you can.

Unfortunately, speakers on the long wall is just not an option for this room, especially not with speakers this large. The length of the room is awkwardly broken up by doorways, inset bookcase, etc and the only way to have a liveable furniture setup that makes sense in this room while being able to also use it as a listening room is to have the speakers in the corners on the short wall. So, do you see issues with putting the KHorns in the corners shown? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about tweeter axis. In the corners shown I can toe in/out to get whatever relationship between tweeter axis and preferred listening position I would want? Can you be more specific about what you mean? Thanks for the advice!!

Similarly, would putting a couch on the left sidewall next to where the left KHorn would be hurt anything? I guess a better question is: what on your sidewalls DOES hurt the bass performance of a Khorn?

There's a local pair of Klipschorn AK6 for sale, and I'm considering them. I currently have La Scala AL5s, and while I love them, I think the AK6 could do my room a lot of logistical favors. My AL5s together with my pair of REL 212/SX subs take up a pretty large footprint in my room. The LS sound better pulled out of the corners, and the subs end up with a dip from 60-90 Hz unless I pull them out into the room and have them against the sidewalls. They're big and really act as obstacles to layout of my room. My thought in getting KHorns is that the speakers themselves would effectively have a way smaller footprint than the La Scalas as they would be tucked right into the corners, and the fact that they have much deeper bass extension than the LS would mean that I could probably get away with one smaller sub (like a REL 1510) sitting between the KHorns on the front wall, eliminating the annoying footprint of my REL 212s. I also would hope that since all of the bass from 40 Hz up will be coming from the KHorns, I'll have a much smoother and more even bass response in my room overall. My hope is that this would not only make my room much nicer, but also sound better (or at least as good). Also, I might save money in the long run by going with the KHorns because I could sell the REL 212s, which themselves are very pricey. My biggest concern is that in reading threads from people considering KHorns vs La Scalas, it has seemed like people for the most part prefer the La Scalas, and the KHorns could only be as good if I have the right corners for a KHorn to really work properly. Also, the very few professional reviews of the AK6 that I've been able to find don't actually read very favorably. I would hope that this is due to limitations of the reviewer's rooms. Any candid opinions of the AK6s as a speaker, and compared to the AL5s would be appreciated! So I'd like to ask.. do I have the right kinds of corners? My room is 12' x 30', here's a photo of the corners where the KHorns would go (forgive the mess of speakers, I'm doing some testing right now). You can see where one of my REL 212s is on the right -- there's another one on the left side a little further back. It's super annoying even though it sounds great. That front wall is 12' wide, and the distance from corner to window frame on either side is 4'. The distance from corner to window frame along the right side wall is 3.5'. Would these window frames have a significant impact on the ability for the folded bass horns to work as well as they should in these corners? Thanks for any thoughts people might have on going from LSAL5 to KHAK6 in this space! I'm hoping I can pull it off and reclaim more of my room layout without giving up sound quality in the process!

Well, the sorta-good news here is that the SE84UFO is a different design than the UFO25, and might have a different noise spec. As evidence in this direction, Andrew Robinson specifically mentioned in his La Scala review that the UFO2 was a fantastic match for the La Scalas, so that tells me that the UFO2 must have a lot less hum than the UFO25, and I'd expect the UFO to be similar to the UFO2 rather than the UFO25. But this is all "informed speculation" on my part. If I come across a UFO or UFO2 on the used market I might grab it just to compare against the UFO25 and try and satisfy my curiosity on this. Better news is that if you bought a pair of the UFOs with the intention of using them as differential balanced monoblocks, then you're in the clear. My UFO25s in balanced mono are humless and sound great on my La Scalas.

That spec doesn't tell you what you will hear from your speakers in your room at listening position. For me and my speakers, this translated to a 58ish dB hum at listening position, which is very, very noticeable (for reference, with the amp off, ambient noise in the room is about 43 dB). Happy to send you a video if you would like. Which amps did you order? I'm talking specifically about the SEWE300B, but the UFO25 gave 55-56 dB of hum which is also not bearable imo. Which speakers were you planning to pair them with?

I agree. I've had two electricians over, and consulted with a third, all of them have said that everything looks great. The wiring is much newer than the rest of the house and is modern. Ground examined and tested, as were all outlets. I also got my own outlet tester for my own gratification. I don't have any friends with passive speakers, unfortunately. I do plan to bring it to a hifi store that has La Scalas or KHorns set up at some point, but have not been able to yet. It seems unlikely at this point, though, that there is any issue with my house's wiring, and Steve has agreed that this is the case. Nonetheless, I will test the amp elsewhere whenever I get the chance, as I think I'll need this to satisfy my own curiosity. But bear in mind this test needs to be on highly efficient speakers to be meaningful here -- having a small amount of hum from normal-high efficiency speakers is within spec according to Decware.

From the speakers. There is a very faint buzz from the amp's transformer itself, but that is very quiet and absolutely negligible here.

I don't doubt it! Pass makes great stuff, and of course solid state is immune to the type of hum we're discussing here. I might try them out one day, but right now I'm enjoying tubes (my UFO25s sound fantastic and humless configured as differential monoblocks). My understanding from my discussion with Steve is that the hum is certainly not required to sound good, but is required for the amp to sound exactly the way he wants on the types of speakers he is targeting. He said it would still sound good without the internal hum, just not special in the way that he wants. Yeah my SE34I.5 is nice and quiet on my La Scalas, very very little hum, and fine for everyday use. Doesn't sound as good as the UFO25 (in mono) though! Based on the testimonies I've gathered and reviews read, the non-25th anniversary UFOs seem to just have less internal hum than the 25th anniversary version. Not sure why. Steve has told me that different models of his amps indeed do have different levels on internal hum (e.g. 300B > UFO25 > SE34I in hum level).