AuD

Numbers, Why yes I am interested in numbers, such what is the resonant frequency of the EAC, and what influence does it have as sound hits the tympanic membrane. Further more, what do engineers, like yourself, do to compensate for the resonant frequency of the EAC? Is there even a sollution for this enigma in the first place, because realistically every one's ECV & shape of their EAC is going to be different, (to some degree) which will ultimatley influence the sound signature. more about numbers, " Specifically in humans, we have a maximum aural range of 12 Hz under ideal laboratory conditions[2] to 20,000 Hz in some individuals, but the range shrinks during our lifetime, usually beginning at around the age of 8 with the higher frequencies fading. There is a difference in sensitivity of hearing between the sexes, with women typically having a higher sensitivity to higher frequencies than men (Gotfrit 1995). If we know that the cochlea can not respond out to 20K in the average male, then why do IEMs specs state that their products hit sub hearing ranges.... I mean really what are we paying for? http://ultimateears.com/products/18-pro#specifications Imagine if Baskins and Robbins advertized "Tasteless Chocolate" would peiople stand in line to purchase their new ice cream? And further more, if some one can make this http://www.knowles.com/search/prods_pdf/TWFK-30017-000.pdf hit 18K Hz, I would be very amazed. and while u are at it, please explain to me why UE or JH audio needs 6 drivers packed away in to their IEMs. I mean really, what is the dynamic range of each driver? I would think it would have to be very narrow, if not then they are just redundant speakers... thus increasing costs, and to what advantage is that? "For what it's worth, I think half of the art of engineering is figuring out where you want the numbers to be...and then the other half is getting the numbers there in a manufacturable and cost-effective manner. If you're suggesting that the single-driver approach hasn't been maximized yet, then I would totally agree, but the physics are gonna dictate higher levels of distortion when compared against the multi-driver solutions. Of course, that's not to imply that multi-driver solutions aren't without compromise either." Agreed, but I also think it is worthy to note, every capacitor and every resistor placed in an IEM etc, will create artifact (to some degree) and that is just the nature of the beast. Also worth mentioning, capacitors have a limited life, they do degrade over time and for 1300$ I would want something more for my money. So again, and this is just my humble opinion, Keeping It Simple, and keeping the number of drivers as low as possible, is the way to go.

I never stated my "understanding of audiology points to single drivers being ideal" what I said was it is more economically advantageous for Knowles and Sonion to never offer/build/or provide a single driver that offer a full spectrum of sound... (or something on those lines) BTW: I could design a driver with my sons etch n' sketch, but that does not mean the driver would ever be built by Knowles or Sonion. and regarding looking at the real numbers... who provides the real numbers, and how does any one even know if they are "real" to begin with. Any one got a B n' K sound level meeter in a drawer some where? http://www.bksv.com/ and what are the standardized specs on freq. response, is it 10 dB drop, 5 dB, 20 dB? hard to look at the real numbers if there is no standardization, and no real un-biased "watch dogs" out there. at least that is my 2 cents

If you are that easily impressed by the number of drivers used in an IEM, you may want to investigate a Chinese IEM company. They have an 8 driver. (8 per side a total of 16 balanced armature drivers used) The question I have, I wonder if this trend will follow over with cars? Will people see an 8 wheel car, and automatically assume it is better than a 4 wheel car? But I do agree with you, when one sees the word "custom" one would assume that the product is "customized" for the individual owner.

I have yet to hear from Knowles, other than an "out of office reply." That said I have spent some time reading regarding tantalum capacitors. It seems to me that most IEM companies use tantalum SMD capacitors in their cross over networks, probably due to their size. Any how apparently there is such a animal as "burn in" etc for capacitors. The other topic I find to be interesting is the debate of which capacitors should be used for audio equpment. There are a lot of people that state that tantalum should never be used and those that say it should not matter. That said, I still do not know in regards to the BAD, if they require a burn in or not.

I am going to whimp out on that one, and I forwarded your question over to Knowles. That said... I can tell you there is research out there that does show that the fidelity of the mics made by knowles will "shift" over time just by sitting on a shelf. But I do realize there is a difference between a mic and a speaker. That said, there is more than this than just a BAD shifting over x amount of hours of use. If you analyze capacitors and resistors, you will find that they have an estimated "life" span. Go to any web site selling them on a whole sale level and you will probably find that information. The point is, the sound quality may be changing due to cap/resistor life limitations rather than BAD SQ change. (or both) It will be interesting to see what Knowles has to say... I would also like to put this question to bed.

I could be wrong, and I doubt that I am.... I think Hearing Protection Devices (HPDs) are under FDA protection. So as a co. that was not formerly involved in products that are not under FDA jurisdiction... I would advise that co. to stay out of it. Which is one of the things I find disturbing about companies that state that they have a noise atenuation of 26dB. According to who? What research has been done? Has this been submitted to the FDA? If u think an ear plug is not under FDA jurisdection, consider this: q-tips, diapers, tongue depressors, canes, and the sun glasses you buy at 7-11 are. AuD

It is just my opinion, based on experience with working with BA companies, the "custom" prefixes are more used to prevent reverse engineering more than anything. No co. names mentioned, but intitially all IEMs BAD drivers listed commonly found BA drivers #s. So common one could go to digikey and purchase them! But I would say those days have change and I have seen the shifting of custom numbers being used more so. BTW the ability to use customized numbers etc is very costly. BA for hearing aids, I would have to say are not really full range. Statistically speaking most hearing losse's are within the high frequency region and so as a result the response curves of a good portion of BAs have their peak freq. within the higher range (ie 2K Hz) The driver for the ER4 is much as what I discribed & in the realm of drivers, it really was/is a vanilla driver. (nothing spetacular about it) That said, digital hearing aids have essentiallly on board EQ's that will allow Audiologists to adjust the freq response. (16 bands or more can be found in hearing aids) I simply love IEMs and the world I live in the word "custom" means just that custom, from the ground up. Everything about the ear is unique per individual, even the placement and shape of cochlea is different from person to person. Ears all share some things in common, but ultimately they are anatomically unique. Got a plane to catch, AuD

There is no way I would even begin to refute your story... and I would be angry to the hildt. That said, I did have to work with V1's customer service when I sent mine in for an up-grade. That went fairly well. BUT what did happen was the currier service placed the V1 box some where out of obvious sight, I came home at night in the rain, and I did not notice the box either. (again it was essentially hidden) Any how I called up the currier, made them send it back to V1, and have them asses if there was any water damage. (V1 said that there was not and sent the RD back to me) No other events to report regarding this. Essentially the process of up grading was not a smoothe affair but it was not the fault of V1. I wish u the best with your Escort or what ever you decide to do...

and what you may not know, Professor thump, is that AuD = Doctorate of Audiology = a very intimate knowledge of balanced armature drivers. Which is probably one of the reasons why Dr. Mead Killion (Audiologist and founder of Etymotic Research) was one of the first to really make a market impact with the use of BA's in non-custom products. Which interestingly enough, his ER4 product used a single driver without any custom number prefixes on that particular product. So please don't trivialize our jobs, knowledge or experience with balanced armature drivers. and yes of course I knew that the nozzle loaction impacts the sound signature... so does ear canal volume, and ear canal shape affect the sound signature as it reaches the tympanic membrane. (a lot of other factors, such as insertion depth, materials used for the head set dome etc, influences the sound quality too) My statement still stands, economically speaking, it is better for Sonion or Knowles not to produce a full range product. That said, I have seen a some indications that they are interested in doing so. Recently Knowles introduced and new ED series with a tremendous amount of bass, when compared to the other ED series within that particular product family line. (I look forward to test driving that particular ED next week) As to the other post pertaining to the laws of physics playing in to this scernerio, thus creating a need for multiple drivers.... Yes, there is some truth to this, but one should also consider other limitations, such as what frequency ranges are actually used in making recordings of music, the dynamic range of the average cochlea in lets say 16yr + male etc etc. These limitations may at times, actually proceed the limitations created by the laws of physics.

Good for you.... Never got a ticket either, with the V1. Now, I walk to work, sold the car (no mention of make or model) and the V1. I was a satisfied customer, and apparently u are too. That is great...

I don't give a flying fig of who owns what, who pays for what etc etc. There are all kinds of economic dealings & relationships between businesses that in the end result matter nothing to the final product. Ex: Logitech has a financial relationship with Phonak (hearing aid company) Phonak has a relationship with Bausch and Lomb (sp). (whoop di doo) I doubt for a second Bausch tells UltimateEars what to do (recently aquired by Logitech) Phonak just aquired Advanced Bionics, and on and on it goes.... If a person buys a V1, they know they are getting the best made by V1, that person doesn't have to worry about other models within the V1 family line etc, scrimping here, sacrificing something to save a buck etc etc. None of those wories exsist. If you have and Escort, or drive an Escort, I aplologize profusely if I offended you. It was not my intention to do so.

Yes, you are correct, the car does not indicate the performance of the RD See, I was able to make that statement in one sentence.... pretty neat ehh. I never started a pissing contest, a contest is a between others. I made no comparisons to your car or others. But the fact that the cars I did list would be commonly driven at high speeds (because that is pretty much what they are made to do) might indicate that the drivers of those vehicles would want the best. (strictly a guess) Yes, Escort has a whole model line up from garbage, to kind sorta garbage, to higher than average garbage, to really really really good garbage/encroaching on V1 or better. Well that is great, but historically V1 does not offer a product line up, they have no experience in making garbage, they just make quality.... period. I respect that. You don't have to, its still pretty much a free world.

It could be a mini microwave too, but until it performs like a Valentine One, I will stick with aValentine One. I have had others, my brother I think has an Escort... total garbage compared to the V1. My bro-in-law uses V1 in his M5, I used the V1 in my M3, and my dad in his 530BMW. I also used a lazer jammer, but to be honest, I do not know from first hand experience if it was effective or not.

That is really up to Knowles and Sonion not up to UE, Klipsch, ER, Westone, etc. The more drivers required the more money Knowles and Sonion makes... so full range may never get here... not to the extent that I would like to see. Yes, I have heard/listened examined etc all the above products u mentioned (minus the custom 3) & yes they sound good & I use a Cowon for my MP3 player. I never did understand why Klipsch used the term "custom" for their non-custom product...

I don't understand why some folks want more drivers, when the emphassis should be placed on a full range driver with fantastic sound quality. This would theoritically decrease costs & keep the housing small. I prefer the x5 over the x10 too.