tube fanatic
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To add to this fun discussion, take careful note of what Bob Carver sought to accomplish in the design of this amplifier:
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I always like the warmth of a good tube. This a 829B final amplifier for my 2-Meter Ham Rig. It was driven by a ARC-5 823A mobile.
Like our Klipsch Forum there is a club of guys using this 829B tube as the final in there audio amps. Running 3.5 watts mono!!! As a 2-meter final I ran it 50 watts out without fan, 80 watts with. It keeped the room warm
. chrisNow you're onto something!!! There were all kinds of tubes used in ham equipment years ago as final amps which can be used for audio service such as the 2E26. And they're cool to look at also!!!
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I just didn't like the hassle of owning them. Chasing bias, warmups, too hot in the summer etc. But when a tube amp is done well, it sounds wonderful, no doubt. I just don't want to pay the price, monetarily or othewise.
wasTubes have an undeserved reputation of being a hassle, having a short life span, etc. A tube amp which kills the output tubes after say 1-2k hours just isn't designed correctly. It's quite easy to design a tube amp in which the output tubes last for 10-20k hours. Of course, many manufacturers don't do that because it would mean raising their price point to a probably unacceptable level. As far as too hot in the summer, it's easy to dissipate the generated heat with small, almost silent, fans if that's an issue (with most folks air conditioning their homes these days it's a comlaint which I very rarely hear). And in the winter, a little extra heat in the room is often welcome! As a side discussion I ought to start a thread about the wonderful smell of hot tubes (my wife has caught me many times with my nose at the back of a nice old radio or vintage amp which I had just restored enjoying the aroma. But she knows I'm a bit nuts.......) Maynard
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Need I say more?
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The only concern I have is that I turn on my amp in the morning and don't turn it off until late at night. Will that be a problem for a tube amp?
Do you spend all of those hours listening, or is the amp just idling for much of that time? If the latter, you can use a variac to drop your power line voltage down to around 100 volts during the idling hours. That will reduce the wear on the tubes enormously. When you listen, just go back to 120 volts and you're ready to go. Alternatively, if you're actually listening for all of those hours, you can run the amp at a lower line voltage of say 105-108. The difference in performance probably won't be audible and tube life will be greatly increased as well. How loudly do you listen? Since you will probably need to go with a vintage, hopefully restored, integrated tube amp in order to get the tone controls (finding one with an actual "midrange" control is unlikely) you will be giving up quite a bit of power vs. your Onkyo.
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In discussing the relative merits or demerits of a specific tube one needs to make such comparisons with the same output transformers at the very least. To conclude that a 300B, for example, produces more bass than a 2A3 or 45 may not be valid if the amps using those tubes all have different opts. But, without question, when dealing with SETs the relationship between amp, cables, and speakers is important due to the generally high output impedance of that type of amplifier.
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[
]Hard to imagine something is more effective than putting small polished stones on your gear.
Mike, you can't possibly be an audiophile. Mpingo discs and elevating the cables on little wooden trestles work much better than polished stones!!!!!!! Regards-- Maynard
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Regarding discussion about Psvane, Grant Fidelity is blowing out their inventory of tube amps due to the unfortunate medical issues of one of its founders. Prices seem to be below the parts cost at least by US standards:
http://shop.grantfidelity.com/FACTORY-CLEARANCE-Psvane-TS66-Integrated-Tube-Amplifier.html
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Let's start with the speakers and tube amp first, and go from
there. The M-301 I'm thinking...An important consideration when choosing your amp is the presence or absence of a balance control, or individual volume controls for each channel. Recordings and room acoustics are almost never properly balanced resulting in the need to increase the level of one channel vs. the other to attain a proper sound stage (often checked by playing a mono recording and noting if the vocals, for example, seem to be coming from the midpoint between the 2 speakers). I'm not familiar with Musical Fidelity amps, so that is worth looking into. I do believe that Jolida still offers some models with a balance control.
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Talk about wandering off topic. Actually, I was lying about the trots to lend my report a dramatic ending. First time I've ever told a fib on the Forum.
Gee Marty, I was going to suggest that you take some acidophilus and offer to send you some custom corks..............
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Thanks TF. How does one interface with tube amps? RCA? Binding post? 1/4"? XLR? Do they typically have 2 channels? Do you recommend tube amps by themselves or in combination with a receiver?
It can be as simple as connecting some #16 lamp cord (fine for runs of up to 20 feet or so) to the binding posts on the amp, and the other end to the K-horns' binding posts. Personally, I recommend integrated 2 channel tube amps (i.e. no preamp needed- just connect your source to the amp and that's it). They can be individual mono amps, or a stereo amp (even there, differences can be pronounced depending on the design. Email if you want detailed discussion of that issue). Simple, effective, and as mustang guy said above 1 watt/channel is often all that's needed. Over the years I've very rarely had to build anything with more than 5 wpc for any K-horn users. But, depending on the size of the room, and how loudly you listen, the needed power can climb very quickly.
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The type of amplification you choose also depends on your budget. Quality, new, tube amps can be had for under $1k after which the sky is the limit. Imo, tubes are the only way to go with K-horns. Within that category are various circuit configurations all of which will sound different from one another. No one can tell you which you will find most enjoyable. The best option is to purchase from a source which allows a money back guarantee if you are dissatisfied (Decware, I believe, still offers that and they offer tube amps of all different types). And to answer your question about what a SET amp is, read the description here:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-survey-of-amplifier-types-tas-217-1/?page=1
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Interesting case! The first thing I would try if I had such a problem is to shut the main breaker at the entrance panel to see if the hum goes away. If it does, then turn it back on, but shut all the breakers and then turn them back on one at a time to isolate the individual circuit which may be causing the problem. That said, it's entirely possible that the source isn't even in your house! Having spent decades hanging out with insane ham operators who are always blamed for any kind of interference, I've seen cases where rain gutters were picking up a field from a neighboring house and coupling the EMI/RFI into the wiring of the house with the problem (especially if Romex is used as opposed to BX cable). Things like doorbell transformers, especially if they're very old, can cause all kinds of weird effects such as what you're describing (and it could be blocks away), the wiring of the house with the transformer in question acting as an antenna. So, you'll need to do a bit of detective work and I'm sure you'll figure it out. But, it would be worth putting your other speaker in exactly the same location to note if it exhibits the same behavior.
Maynard
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So you're saying that the hum was present with the leads disconnected from the speaker? Sounds like something is inducing either a magnetic or electrical field into the speaker voice coil or crossover. Did you try moving the speaker a few feet away from its usual position, and did that make any difference? Did you try placing the speaker from the other channel in the same location to determine if it too had any hum? What's on the other side of the wall from the speaker? Any AC wiring running in the wall directly behind the speaker? Did you try shorting the terminals on the back of the speaker with a short jumper, and if so, did it eliminate the hum?
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Easy one- selling my K-horns (with stickers signed by PWK), Cornwalls, and Heresys. It's amazing what needing some $$$ will force a person to do!!!
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I've been using the same pair of Weller 8200 soldering guns "forever" for all but PC board work for which I have been using a Weller 25 watt pencil iron which I picked up back in '76 (and which still has its original tip in near perfect condition!) Solder is just the typical 63/37 tin/lead rosin core variety from Kester or Ersin. For the guns I clean the tips with a stainless or copper pot scrubber, and the pencil iron tip with a dry piece of paper towel. As with anything else, it's all a matter of what you learn to work with. There's no right or wrong way to get the job done- basically, if the connection is sound, and the component is not damaged in any way, the technique is good. Sorry to get a bit off track here, but I love nostalgia!!!
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It's great to see all of this interest in tube amps on the forum lately! Perhaps I can now convince Amy to set up a section for DIY tube amps (tried a couple of years ago!!!) I think it would generate a great deal of interest.
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The characteristics of the amp you choose will depend on many factors including the size of your room, how far from the speakers you listen, the type of music you listen to, how loudly you listen, the presence or absence of reflective or absorptive surfaces (book cases, carpets, curtains, etc.), and so on. It's very difficult to make a blanket amp recommendation because the sound you are seeking is likely to be different from what someone else prefers. The Dynaco is a good amp, but not phenomenal. And, the unfortunate side of going with vintage equipment is that once you buy it it's yours whether you like it or not. If you decide to purchase a new amp, try to do so from a dealer who offers a money back guarantee. There are different types of tube operating parameters which can deliver very different sound qualities and output power (i.e. single ended triode, single ended pentode, push-pull triode, push-pull pentode, ultralinear, and others!) Tube longevity can vary very significantly depending on how the circuits are arranged (some output tubes need replacement after 2 or 3 thousand hours, and others can last 10 thousand hours or more), and the cost of replacement can be minimal or very high depending on the tubes used. So, that may be a consideration as well. Perhaps you can locate some forum members within a reasonable drive who can bring over their favorite tube amp for you to audition. That will help you narrow down the choices a bit.
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Given the apparent interest on the forum of late about tube amps with Klipsch speakers, here's an interesting site that I came across:
It has a lot of discussion about why tube amps are so terrific, and also has lots of information about DIY tube amps for those who may be interested in trying their own.
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When you get to the point that you're going to solder actual components like capacitors, it's also useful (especially in the beginning when you may overheat the connection somewhat) to use a small alligator clip on the component lead to act as a heat sink. It will conduct lots of heat away from the component itself, particularly if the clip is copper. PC boards are another story as the component leads will obviously be quite short; you need to be extra careful when doing those.
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I stumbled across this by chance. I'm not impressed with the build quality, but these amps enjoy an amazing reputation for reliability and sound quality. Folks unfamiliar with what goes into the construction of a low power tube amp will find the whole process very informative.......Part 1 is linked below.
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I feel like I'm committing an act of heresy (!!!???) by posting something about a non-Klipsch speaker, but this is really interesting and very reminiscent of technology popularized by the DuKane Corp. around 1960 when I first got into the audio field.
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. chris
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Tubes vs. SS
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
You missed the point! I was referring to this extract from the article:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/carver-black-beauty-305-power-amplifier/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-52
Obviously, this is not the ideal amp for a “transparency to sources”
listener like me, in that it makes virtually everything, no matter how
recorded, sound some shade of dark and ravishing. And yet...and yet. The
Black Beauty has the kind of midrange resolution and presence that make
voices and instruments sound not merely beautiful but quite real and
quite “there.”
In the user manual, Carver says unequivocally that dark and gorgeous was precisely the kind of performance he wanted from
his Black Beauties. He was looking to provide “a warm, rich sound with a
sumptuous soundstage, great front-to-back depth of field, and very
tight, pin-point imaging within that larger acoustic,” and in doing this
he was looking to please the “serious music lover.”
So, even at this price point, Carver intentionally chose to create a "type" of sound which is not necessarily true to the original recording.
Maynard