fire pinch

Im just wondering... the Klipsch RSW-15 seems to be insane for punching your chest and to push you 15 ft away with its strong mid-bass slam!! It even seems that people tell us that the RSW-15 can "punch" even more than a Velo HGS-18 or an SVS Ultra... but I think that the Velo and the SVS have the gap for deep and low bass. But how would a DIY: ...sealed Tumult compare against the RSW15? ...ported Tumult compare against the RSW15? ...sealed AV15 compare against the RSW15? ...ported AV15 compare against the RSW15? I know that I didnt specified how they would be tuned but lets say in general. Well, lets say if they are tuned at 16, 20, or 25 Hz for a ported design and a Q of 0,67 or a higher Q design for ported enclosures. Im sure that many of you can comment on this, so lets start the discussion

The Ears, This is not me but Formica who started that "subwoofer shootout", you refer to the wrong person here. I think that he didnt mean that we compete each others to know which sub, the tumult or his Stryke based subwoofer who will be the best performers. I think that he just wants to compare numbers by curiousity and to know how a Tumult and Stryke subwoofers performs. Well this will be just interesting and Im not the person who want to make the most powerfull sub and to have the most SPL on this planet... the Tumult woofer just interested me and Im just willing to build a subwoofer with this driver. I rarely play my music above 105 dB anyway ! I will say it right away, my main goal with that sub is to have a good enriching experience and to have fun, thats all! And to know someone who will make the sub pretty at the same time is just more fun! In brief, I see just this shootout (if we do one) interesting and positive. Well, for my side, I just had the intention to post numbers and SUBJECTIVE comments like a review.

Formica, Check your PM box, I messaged you

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL!!!!!!!!! The_Ears, each time that you call me like that I almost blow my intestines!!!!!!!!! Oh well, I think that Im gonna replace my nickname on msn which was Firepinch and Im gonna write Pincette de Feu! LOOOOOOOLLLLL!

formica, Nop, I didnt order the driver yet. I will order it in end-June or early July certainly. Im affraid of what you said for the waiting list... I just hope that as soon as I will order it, that Ill get the woofer at least in a week or a few. Be sure that Ill be proud to let everybody know how it perform against some subs as I know that not so much reviews has been revealed. I know that Im not the reference like TheEars because I didnt listen to all his subwoofers but I listened to quite some, some B&Ws, Energy, Klipsch, Paradigm and the one I have now, the Hsu VTF-3. I have a SPL meter so Ill show you as well some numbers You live in Montreal?? Nice to meet a second "Québécois" in this forum!

Mm this tread is very interesting... I planned to make a subwoofer this summer with the Adire Tumult driver. For sure, I will have to brace it considering the monster which house in the box. But... suppose that I want it sealed at first (I thought about a vented design but I prefer to try this later) and that you calculed a volume of 2 cubic ft for it. Do you take in consideration the braces for that volume??? This may be a stupid question but I will just begin for the first time to DIY this summer! P.S.: The Ears, I bet that you will find a new name for calling me in french!

Yeah, never said that the PS series was good... but I find several other cheaps sub under 400$ US crappier than it. For USA people, if you buy it in USA (the PW-2200), they arent cheaper than SVS subs (the PCi or the PB1-ISD). This rule just apply if you buy it here or for us, canadians. But even for me, canadian, I still wouldnt buy a Pw-2200. I find that bass below 30 Hz is missing with this sub and I would buy SVS or Hsu for more extended bass. Well I have an Hsu VTF-3 with the latest driver and amp (well Hsu gave me them as soon as he got them and also that was for a replacement) and I just love it more than ever. That new driver and amp just gave me more power, with the same bass quality, I just dont know why! I think that this is due to the Xmax which I see above than what its stated (25 mm). The woofer moves more than this often and without any stress. I would like to try SVS too by the way

LOOOLL!!!

WOoaaaa cool! You give me the impression that these Klipsch RF-3's can be like 20 times louder than my Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3. Ahhh this is hard to beleive for me but I think that this is honnest to say that because of their high sensitivity, the Klipschers can be LOUD. Ahhh I cant wait the summer time, I would like so much to go listen to them right now but if I do, and If I like them at that time, I will want to BUY THEM... and this is not what I want to do loll!

Le Nez, (LOOLLLL!! tsé un peu déformé le nick en ) Yup, thats pretty my opinion too... but did you hear the latest version of the PS-1000? Just wondering... because from the v.1 of the sub, they are now with the v.3. I dont know which version you listened too but it COULD make a difference (I just suppose I dont know), perhaps too little to notice something but still, the only one I listened to is the last one and the one which is selling today, the v.3. You know, they are now with the v.3 of their Monitors too and I had the v.2 before. I noticed quite a good difference when I upgraded to the v.3. However, I dont know if there were big changes since the last versions of the PS series. What version did you listen to? BTW, I bet that you didnt hear all those versions if right away, you were not interested in just one, and this is very comprehensible lol! But ya.. some like, like I said earlier, these booming bass cubes and they just find that this is THE real bass! Even if we say that we cant live with that type of bass, some others just ENJOY IT SOOOOOOOO MUCH (umm à Montréal chu sur qui en a pas mal en! )

Yeah I agree that the PS-1000 is not a very good sub. But still, it packs a BIG PUNCH in the caboche "in the chest? LOL". But to me, this is not the WORST sounding sub on the planet. I found many to be worse than it like the popular Sony one IMHO. I found the PS-1000 not accurate, but it is still surprisingly tight for a bandpass sub. Anyway this is not a sub for pure audiophiles, but more for someone who like techno, hard house songs or for those who likes to distortionned sound from many night club... distorted but still fun when you feel it so much in your chest! You know, many like this distortionned bass and this is not BAD! I, myself, like that sometimes but for sure, I still prefer the sound from cleaner subs like many one of The_Ears Oh!! I just saw that all of you talked about the PS-1200 and not the PS-1000. I prefer by far the PS-1000 for accuracy and tightness in music that the 12 inchers one. The 1200 is more slowww...

Yeah, that is what I was thinking too... that I need just 1 or 2 watts to have plenty of sound from these speakers. But the things is that I'm worried about the quality of these watts that my amp give! Better amps give better and purer signal, Im just not enough informed about how Anthem compare to other high end amps. It seems that it take an extremly good amp to make the RF-3's shine and to really have good sound quality wihthout any harshness. Notice that I said it seem but I would prefer to say it seems to ME. By the way, I like my sound very loud when I listen to techno songs so I wouldnt refuse a 120 dB from the RF-3s (mmm it would be very surprising if I could acheive this lol). But in the other side, I like my sound less loud (lets say 85 dB) when I listen to rock and other style of musics. For now, my top SPL is 118 dB (peak) with my present system and this SPL is due mostly because of the Hsu VTF-3 subwoofer. I have a tinny 1470 cubic ft room so this help hehe

Do you think all that the Anthem MCA-20 is considered like a high-end amp? Do u think that the RF-3's and this amp will match well togheter? You know... this is because I would like to have them so much (the RF-3's) but at the same time, if it would require that I sell my amp and that I buy a new one (lets say a true tube amp), I will not have enough money for this instance. Well, I would have enough money, but I have a certain budget I know that I will know all that when I'll go to the store with my Anthem amp. But Im sure that some of you here have this amp and know how it would match with a set of RF-3 towers Oh and another thing... lets say that I have listened to the RF-3s with a Marantz home theatre receiver, do you think that the sound will be VERY different when I will bring my Anthem MCA-20 there?

I read more about my Anthem MCA-20 amp at the Sonic Frontier website and I think to have seen the word tube amp somewhere. Is the MCA-20 amp supposed to have a mixture of like "electronic chips" + "tube amp"? I beleive that Im biased on this

Oh thank you for your nice complete and accurate explanations michael! As for what type of music I listen to, I listen very often to hard house, techno and boom boom songs. But I like also rock, classical, pop, etc... My equipment is quite very simple, I own Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3 towers, Monitor 3 v.3 for the back, CC-370 for the center, Hsu VTF-3 subwoofer, Yamaha RXV-630 receiver and a Anthem MCA-20 stereo power amp. Im in a 1470 cubic ft room, my bedroom. Well, at the store when I listened to the RF3's, I really heard that they began to sound harsh and grainy in the highs at high volume. This is the salesman who pumped up the volume to show me how loud they can be. But he didnt use the best equipment I think... that was a HOME THEATRE (not stereo) Marantz receiver which cost like mmm $1000US. Im curious to find out if they will sound harsh again with my Anthem MCA-20 amp, for sure, I will go again to the store this summer to know if that harsh sound will dissapear with my power amp, Im just too much temped. They surprised me soooo much with a boom boom song (dunno if its trance, techno or hard house), they were soooo powerfull, they kicked so hard in my chest. That time, I brang my Paradigm PS-1000 subwoofer and the RF-3s almost outgunned completly my PS-1000 subwoofer. I didnt even know if my sub was playing!! Considering that this Marantz didnt give 200W of true power per channel to these RF-3s, I bet that they will blow me away until I pass thru the windows and that I fly over the highway!!! LOL! It would be hard to beleive with only two 8 inchers per tower but... mmm well, you, all RF-3 users, know how hard they can kick! By the way, will it be too much for the RF-3s if I give to them 225W of power per tower? In the klipsch website they are rated to accept a maximum of 150W continuous, pretty much like my Monitor9s...

mm yeah, many people tell me that normally, well designed horn speakers are the best for listening to music. But why some say that Klipsch Reference speakers give a colored sound? I just dont get it... do they mean that they doesnt sound flat (some dips in the frequency curve)? Lets say from 40 Hz and up for the RF3 towers, to they have big drops or highs in frequencies? Are they uneven somewhere? And I know you will jump on me if I think that way... I see the klipsch Reference series as beeing "directional" because of their horn, not a 180 degrees sound dispertion. It seems that when you place them correctly in a room, you can get a good soundstage. Yeah, that soundstage, Im affraid that If I buy the RF3s, I will not have a good soundstage in my room. You know, the dealer doesnt accept that I bring them to my home so I cant know if the soundstage will be good here. I just can listen to them at the store and from there, I can just judge the overall sound quality, the timbral balance, midrange, bass etc... Beeing a Klipsch Promedia owner in the past years, that was just TOO tempting to buy these RF3's because when I listened to them, they pleased me a lot. I thought twice before bringing them with me when I heard that the sound was a little bit harsh when they were pushed at a very high volume. With a better amp, could this harsh sound dissapear? I think about bringing my Anthem power amp with me and to give them a try again. But you know, I will have to think twice again because it must worth it compared to my Monitor9s... I cant beleive that these puppies cannot kick HARDER than my Monitor9s v.3 if they sensitivity is rated at 98 dB/w/m! With 225W of current per channel, I hope that they will blow me away

^BUMP^!!!! Cmon! With all those views no people have both of them or heard both of them?

I know that someone posted a tread about a Klipsch vs Paradigm comparison but I suggest two particular models. I have the Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3 at home with a 225W/channel receiver (Anthem). I listened to the RF-3 towers last year against my Monitor 9 v.2 (please notice here that the v.2 and v.3 is not the same for Paradigm). I found that the Klipsch RF-3 sounded AWESOME!!! They truely show their presence with their punch and I found the Monitor 9 v.2 a bit shy compared the the RF-3s. However... as you know now, I owned the Monitor 9 v.2 before and today, I have the v.3 of them. I find that the v.3 offer better midrange clarity and better MID-BASS PUNCH!!! I was very surprised when I listened first to them, I thought that they were entirely a new style of speaker. And now, since I have more KICK from them, this is why I ask you the question, for those who have both of them or who have listened to both of them (and notice, not the v.2 of the Monitor9). So how, in your opinion, do they compare? Please, be complete when you explain!!! Oh and by the way, I think that Im gonna listen to them again this summer (the RF-3s)!

Thank you l'oreille, you make me less anxious about the Anthem. I just hope that at least, I will get more mid-bass punch. The Yamaha isnt dynamic at all but their new model (I had the rxv-496 previously) seems to sound a bit more dynamic and a tad warmer. I choosed the Yam as a receiver to have great performance in movie at a great price but my critical listening is more reserved for the music. So its why I choose Anthem. Sellers tell me that this is one of the best cost/performance amp in the market below 2000$ canadien. At the begining, I wanted to choose a powerfull av/receiver but I would have to pay so much to have the same performance of a cheapo stereo receiver. So I think that I made a good decision... I hope so BTW l'oreille, do you read or accept private messages? I sent you one.

I can even say that the VTF-3 outgun the PW-2200 in many aspects. Well the major difference between the VTF-3 and the PW-2200 is not the max output they can do IMHO. This is more the bass ENERGY the VTF-3 has over the PW-2200. I was almost ready to buy the PW-2200 because I found that for the price, it sounded relatively very good and clean, natural... albeit extension and energy. I remember when the dealer put a bass test and we compared the two subs (I brang mine). The VTF-3 succeeded to displace some price paperboards which were on top of towerspeakers LOOL! A thing that the PW-2200 couldnt do even when its volume knob was cranked at the max. It's what I mean, when I talk about VTF-3 energy. Its hard to explain... maybe I should say they are near in bass loudness but not the same at all in bass energy. Ohhhh I think that while im writing, I begin to find what is this loudness and bass energy... bass which I describe loud to my ears is maybe >50 Hz and energic <50 Hz ??? So I think that it can explain the difference "perceived" in performance between the PW-2200 and the VTF-3! [img src=http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif'> ahahah anyway, omg Im all mixt-minded at the moment (im out from a physics course) I know that I will be out-topic in this paragraph but what do you think people about my next Anthem amp? Will it be a great amp? I dont see so much that word in audio forums. Anthem... an unknown Amp maker? Im affraid...

Hi all! I dont know if you remember the post I wrote about my VTF-3 disapointment. Well, some months has passed and I tested again my Hsu with my SPL meter... im really surprised! I only use it in MAX OUTPUT mode (tuned at 25 Hz). I gained many dbs and I really dont know why! When I said that I got 105 dB average, Im now above 110. WTF??? Is the VTF-3 the hardest sub to broken-in? I have now the same if not more the punchy bass I had before with my Paradigm PS-1000! What a surprise! And the low bass is terrific. For the first time, I tried to bring the VTF-3 in my living room. I put some songs and I got shocked when I saw my windows ratteling. I could see them ratteling from outdoor during a sunny day i.e. I saw the reflected trees ratteling haha! Moreover, my big problem dissapeared... you know, when I told you that I heard like if the driver wanted to bottom out (the bloating sound). I dont hear it anymore. More days pass, more Im happy. These new Monitor 9 v.3 (had v.2 before) makes me smile everyday. I got them for the same price that the v.2 and I find that there are good difference in sound. They are tighter, more revealant, more detailled to my ears. Am I smoking? They almost sounds like the Paradigm Studios 80 v.2 for twice less the price!!! And now, Im waiting for my new power amp (I hope that I did a good choice... Anthem) Im in a hurry to know if I will get the mid-bass Im wating for from my towers. Oups! Sorry for this out-topic! Finally, I find that for the price, the Hsu is well worth even in Canada. The price I paid is pretty similar to the Servo-15 price and I find the VTF-3 almost way better. (I said that I paid 1600$ in my last thread but its more like 1500). Now, I would just like that Hsu sell a new Hsu VTF-4 with a 1000W power amp and a ultra high excursion driver!!! Or why not trying a SVS Ultra!!! No no I must keep my money aaahhh! PS.: Sorree for my inglish miztakzz! Oh myyy Im just seeing in my signature that im almost the only one without Klipsch speakers in the forum. Oh well, I have my Promedias 4.1 and I love them!!

You dont need TO SHOUT tueabeille! Im sure that this is a placement problem. Im just skeptical about getting other dBs below 40 Hz just by placing it elsewhere in my bedroom. Because now, the sub is already in a corner BUT it is elevated on a big desk. You think that putting the sub at the same place but on the floor can really change the situation so I will be able to shake the windows? Hummm... I did the same thing with other subwoofers and it didnt change so much the bass and often in those cases, I got the same bass. I have so much things in that small bedroom! Im space limited. I will try to get the VTF-3 on the floor someday but Im affraid that it will be more powerfull in deep bass again in my living room. ANYWAY, im satisfied now (not completely... as always!). So I dont cry!

Damn, im so sorry. I think that I was biased by a seller LOL! Well, this is true that a 20 Hz wave is very long... at least I wasnt wrong for that! I know that cuz I learned that at school during some physics courses. I cant explain however why the VTF-3 seems to be louder in my living room (in DEEP BASS <40 Hz) which is larger than my small bedroom. I dont know when I will measure all that. I hope that I will do that this week-end or next week. But... I remember the day I had the sub. It didnt surprise me too much. But now, it seems that it begin to be more powerfull than before. Because I passed my "brake-in" period? I was surprised when I played a techno song yesterday during the morning. When I looked to my monitor screen, all the windows desktop vibrated (start menu, folder, you know what I mean)... my vision was like affected. If I remember, the first day I had it, that feeling wasnt there. Well, I remember for sure that I had the impression that my Paradigm PS-1000 was the only one which was able to blur a bit my vision!!! I begin to be really happy of my VTF-3!!! This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-19-2002 at 01:27 AM

LOL! Beleive me, the 10 Hz test tone you play in your car doesnt really play in your car. Most of the 10 Hz wave will play outside... you will rattle anything which is outside your car. Talk about this to a scientist who know very well optic physics. Maybe TV will tell you that im not wrong. Well, when I fire a 20 Hz test tone, nothing really shake in my bedroom but in my bathroom, all things rattle badly. This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-18-2002 at 12:50 PM