Delicious2
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Posts posted by Delicious2
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Right angled down
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Right angled in.
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14x28 room open at right end is not really wide enough. I've angled in and down the top hats to compensate.
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Looking to upgrade AK-2 crossover in 1990 Khorns with Dave's Eliptrac midhorn. Crites? ALK universal? ALK ES? Volti? I listen to classical and jazz at low volumes primarily in the background and a wide variety of jazz, dance, pop, and progressive rock at moderate levels in the sweet spot.
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Nice job! That Jub theater is classy. On the question of absorption on floor and ceiling. I have bare floor and bare 8ft ceilings now for my Khorns. How far out into the room should the absorption go? 2 ft in front of the Khorns? 4 ft? I assume the ceiling should match?
Considering using cut pieces of area rug both on floor and perhaps velcroed to the ceiling.
What shape should they be in? For example I can imagine the absorptive rug pieces on the floor forming a triangle in front of the speaker, or a square or even extending all the way out to the side walls.
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I have stock 1990 Khorns with AK-2 networks. If I read this thread correctly I could replace my AK-2s with AP12-350s and ES5800s for a good initial upgrade then later get Eliptracs with adapters for 3 way use with the stock midrange driver and even later go 2-way with the B&C coaxial or HF200 drivers. My question is would these setups be passively bi-ampable?
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I'll take them if lotusmark doesn't.
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Thanks for your thoughts and experiences kwingylee. The ALK-Universals may be in my future. More smoothness would be great and knowing that my sound is not being limited by 20 year old caps in the stock AK-2s - priceless.
I would like a wider sweetspot also but even at Greg's house with his V-Trac Khorns and more ideal room dimensions there was a definite sweetspot basically for 1 person not as narrow as mine though. Maybe Tom is right that center fill with a Heresy, Cornwall or LaScala would be the most direct solution.
Now playing Albinoni: Fantasie from Baroque Music for Brass and Organ.
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Good question kwingylee! The stock Khorns now that they're dialed into my room are so much better than what I've had before I'm not sure how to answer. I don't really have buddies with audiofool aspirations/systems to compare or memories of listening sessions with systems that excelled in one area of another.
All those things you mentioned sound good [
] I would agree about the subjectivity of audio especially in the general population which haven't been exposed to and listened for different qualities of sound. To the extent that is less true among audiophiles and this subset of hornphiles in particular I ask for your advice about what's possible with the Khorn.
I listen to a wide variety of music at low to moderately loud levels both attentively in the "sweet spot" and as background. I especially listen for soundstage (can I imagine that I've been transported to the recording venue?), the tone of acoustic instruments (does a trumpet sound like itself and not like a cornet?), P.R.A.T. (that toe tapping get up and dance feeling), Coherence (is the individual instrumental line easy to follow and the ensemble interplay made plain?)
By way of further dialing in the current system, I noticed the other day that when I turn up the volume I get some distortion. It occured to me that having the monoblocks next to the left speaker on the floor might be leading to vibration feedback. I'm going to switch to some longer interconnects and speaker cables and get the monoblocks as far away from the speakers as possible and up on a stand with brass cone feet.
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Thanks for the input psg. I heard Greg's active test system with the Behringer, 3 T-amps directly connected to the drivers of his modded KHorns. It sounded very good and I like the idea of experimenting with Xrossover points, slopes and time alignment. Even if I eventually go back to passive I will have answered for myself what I can hear in these changes and what is important to me/what I like. If I want to step up in sound quality from the Behringer maybe the Ashly Protea 4.8SP as discussed here:
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I agree the active setup sounded very good on your system at least for the coupla hours I heard it. And comparisons are difficult because of all the variables and the shortness of audio memory. Maybe it was the T-amps directly connected to the drivers swamping all other differences, who knows??? I just know I have to do alot more experimenting/testing/listening to determine what I can hear and what I cannot and of course what I like and don't like.
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No other thoughts?
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Still impressed by KHorns 5 months on. I've got them dialed into my room in the north and southeast corners about 21' apart. The listening chair is centered opposite in front of the fireplace which puts my ears about 8' from the speakers - nearfield for these speakers I suppose, but, the best I can do in this room and much better than along the short 13' wall. My ears are about 42" off the floor (bottom of the midhorn). This produces a very enjoyable "widescreen" soundstage. At first there was a bit of "hole in the middle" effect, but, I've removed the Khorn outer tophat thumb nuts and angled them in to focus the image on the listening position and this seems to have gotten rid of the hole. The couch sits between the speakers centered in the picture window. I've created as much symmetry as possible through careful measuring which helps balance the soundstage. No room treatments as yet unless you count a thin 6'x8' rug centered in front of the listening chair. If I switch the couch and chair 2 or 3 people can listen but only the person in the center of the couch is in the "sweet spot". The soundstage pulls immediately to left or right if my ears deviate from center.
Other components have remained the same. Marantz SA8260 SACD (higher rez) or Apple TV streaming wave files wirelessly (lower rez) to a Parasound P/HP SS preamp to VTL Tiny Triodes to stock 1990 KHorns.
Here's todays question. I have about $1k to spend on upgrading. What is my next step, big bang for the buck?
- Better CD/SACD player?
- Better interconnects (currently generic)?
- Better preamp (maybe tubed like a Modwright, Audible Illusions, or the new DIY Audio DHT/OTL unit)?
- Better speaker cables (currently zip cord)?
- Universal passive crossover to replace stock 20 years old Klipsch unit?
- Volti audio Tractix mid horn with stock driver adapter?
- Get more adventerous and go active perhaps with an Ashly xover and 3 t-amps?
Greg said that if want to use his horn with the stock crossovers I might have to pad down the midrange a bit. I'm leaning towards that as the most improvement for $1k.
Advice?
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Wow Greg! You've done so much since I was there in June. Gotta love that table saw. Can you do part 2 with a closer look at the grow lights?
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Hey Greg,
Looks like you 2 had a hot time in old Moscow! Wassup with that unique looking pair of speakers? I think Sergei has need of your veneering talents again!
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...Currently the crossovers are set at 296Hz and 5.91kHz with LR-48 filters and the relative levels were set by ear...and I have the parts add a six-channel volume control and replace the output section of the Behringer.
nat
Hope I'm not hijacking this thread by focusing on the setup before the beautiful Lavera horns, but, Nat, what are you using to control volume now? Volume controls on the Crowns? Say more about a six channel volume control and new output section for the Behringer. Are you considering a tube output stage as seen here? http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/133949/1358083.aspx#1358083
Oops posted without seeing GotHover's post...errrr. ya....what he said...[:$]
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Hi Greg,
I bet they sound wonderful having heard how good your setup was recently BEFORE the new horns! One thing I was wondering about this test setup, you have the Creek attenuator before the Behinger if I recall correctly. Was wondering if you tried without the Creek so that the Behringer gets full line level all the time? Without a unified volume control it would get tricky to use the pots on the 3 T-amps to find the right balance. Like any component there's probably an optimum input level that the crossover prefers. Too little might lead to lost bits? Too much to being overdriven into distortion? Don't really know enough about so wondering if you tried?
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Hi kwingylee,
Check my profile for full system list. I got a Parasound P/HP 850 preamp and VTL tiny triode monoblocks. Don't think I've ever even seen ConnieJ equipment never mind heard it.
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Took a day trip up to Greg's place mid-Maine last week. A very rainy sunday but we weren't going for the hiking or kayaking! My wife Carol and I met Greg at his Benton workshop and let ourselves in. Greg was working on some new horns and had the MCM shop system up LOUD! Once we caught his attention we got the royal tour. Greg has one of the "cutaway" Klipschorns. Fascinating to see the path of the famous bass bin. I'm moderately knowledgeable about audio but new to Klipsch and horns. Greg was great about answering questions from both Carol and I. He is not only a nice guy but a real craftsman with wood. The new Fc212 horns are beautiful. Carol commented that she had never seen a cleaner wood shop. Greg did his horn demo comparing his speaking voice through a stock Klipsch squawker and through his V-Trac horn. The V-trac certainly sounded more natural to my ear.
Then it was on to Greg's home. There we met his gracious wife and 2 friendly dogs. In the large living room his modded Khorns were along the long wall in "test mode". Greg had them hooked up to a tube output CD player through a Creek volume pot to a Behringer active crossover to 3 T-amps wired directly to the drivers. He explained that he's been experimenting with crossover points and slopes in preparation for building a new passive crossover. We played jazz and pop from Jackson Brown to Diana Krall to Boz Scaggs more jazz and classical even some bluegrass and electronica. We went back and forth with Greg playing a cut then me, etc. If this is test mode, I'd like to hear this system dialed in with tubes! Sitting in Greg's designated prime spot the sound was big, wide open and dynamic. Made my stock Khorns sound pinched by comparison. Center fill was palpable despite the wide corners with singers almost present in the room. The detail was excellent with the music and musicians' expressiveness nicely served. Bass was powerful. Several hours later it was clear that Greg likes his music much louder than I do. This system came alive dynamically easily and even at my moderate volume preferences was very engaging.
Bravo Greg! You've got me saving up for my own Khorn mods. and thanks again for the hospitality!
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Also noted that the pair seemed to be playing out of phase even though the connections were positive to positive/negative to negative. Reversed polarity on one speaker. Phase test on CD now plays properly. Not sure how much diff this will make for music...
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Put a test CD in to check channel balance, polarity, phase and such. Surprised to find the right woofer not playing at all! Found it would intermittently come on if I moved the banana connections/terminals. Thought maybe the cheap bananas just fit too loosely. Replaced with new gold plated spades. No change. Shit thought I gotta remove this plastic panel, may have a bad solder joint inside. Turned out the bottom spring-loaded fuse holder had stuck in the loaded position meaning that the fuse couldn't connect tightly - just rattling around in the socket. A simple push with a finger to make the socket spring back to its unloaded position allowed the fuse to then be loaded against the spring and twisted to lock.
Nice when the fix is simple.
Interesting to have a look inside.
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Thanks Josh.
Good advice. I tend to go pretty slow with this type of thing
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I'm expecting a modded Mitsubishi DA-F20 tuner from Stereo Surgeons in Connecticut soon. Can't wait to hear how that sounds on these vintage speakers.
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What Crossover For Eliptrac Khorns? (Pics)
in Technical/Restorations
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Right AK-2