Bubo
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Posts posted by Bubo
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When you have time, can you list your system components on the LaScalas and update your component and cost list on the crossovers.
Looks like JBL tweeter, Altec 802 mid driver and Crites woofer?
Did you take any measurements along the way for comparison purposes?
Very cool project!
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Use Google books, and read about how coils used to be made and why. Most modern coils skirt the wax because it's a pain to work with and adds cost. Most coils aren't dipped in anything, which is imbecilic. This relates to electrical and mechanical integrity. The audible difference is very subtle, hardly worth getting excited about. However, the pursuit of audio "perfection" mostly involves a long list of subtle improvements that add up to monumental improvement. Some things are less subtle than others. With that said, I'm working with Universal Transformer to have all of my parts impregnated with wax. Next in line is the 2.5mH coil, which is also getting the same wire/core/frame upgrade as the autotransformer I use.
Agree, if you are starting with a good product like the LaScalas, it's a game of 1-2% improvements.
Out of many, One unified
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Did you loosen and retighten all the connections on the crossover board? I would also try better quality woofer inductor. How about Crites 4500 conversion I did that on my K-horns also got iron core woofer inductor from parts express. I think the idea of putting them on wheels is not very good...but everyone has their own ideas. I also smoothed all the casting seems on the mid-horn then painted inside and out with enamel. Another thing I did was to put O-Rings on the mid driver seal the old seal blocks the horn a bit. Also took out the diodes on the tweets. Rick
I did loosen and re-tighten all of the screws connecting the speakers, I didn't want to use contact cleaner since the terminal strip was still connected to the wooden board, suppose I could use a brass toothbrush.
Which inductor (link) did you order, I know someone also recommend the one sold by Crites, what will this fix or improve??
But I love my wheels, why not wheels?
My castings were surprisingly nice when I ran my hand through them and inspected them with a bright light.
What is the function of the diodes and why take them out?
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The biggest problem the room has is it's too-small at 15x16.5....They sound great, but I frequently wish I could push them further away from me when listening.
When new, they were in a carpeted 20-25 x 30-35ft room, where they could really breath.
I don't think it's particularly live, heavy curtains, lots of books, cloth stuffed furniture, area rug in the middle of the room etc.
In short, I like the fact that voice is clear and sweet coming out of these speakers, I believe it was a primary design goal, but I don't have the engineers notes.
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Sounding: a tiny bit more focused especially on the low end, which could be decoupling from the floor and less bounce off of the floor.
The rest is a little bit clearer sounding.
Next step, install some used ATLAS squaker drivers that I purchased last week that are a tiny bit more linear than the excellent EV ? K-55s that are in there now.
It's really a game of 1-2% improvements, as of now I would say that I am back to spec with decoupling from the floor.
If I like the new-older ATLAS K-55s, I may send them out to Crites to be measured and replace the diaphragms, at 30 years life for many of the parts that should take me pretty far.
Rolling them in and out should make life much easier where tweaks are concerned, I love my racks on wheels, the TV stand is next if I can find some wheels.
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We have very similar systems. Thanks for gathering all of this in one place.
I must get some glass, that looks fantastic. Brings the glass from the Macs to the speakers. Do you have felt or rubber feet?
I went with felt for the second time in 25 years, the clear and rubber ones will bleed into your wood and stain it.
The felt just dry rots after 20 years and peels off the glass with a window razor tool in seconds, no stains at all.
I used about 12 felt pads per glass, 1/4 inch smoked several colors to choose from, these are more in the bronze color.
Don't forget to have the edges of the glass rounded off completely by the glass company, a few dollars well spent. No sharp edges or corners.
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Nice article on Horns on Wikipedia.
I'm no expert, but it seems like a very good round up article, doesn't mention Klipsch which seems odd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_loudspeaker
The notes look like a good educational source
Nice article on Compression drivers and phase plugs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_driver
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_plug
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Post some pic's, lol. How would you describe the sound with the changes. They already sounded great in your system before the change.
I recapped one speaker, then ran it in stereo and mono for four hours with the other speaker still original.
No real differences that I could tell, the old caps were in surprisingly good shape for 35.....wish I could say the same.
If something dramatic happens, I'll post it..... but the consensus is that for the films there is no such thing as break in.... the electrolytic may be a different story.
This is very very good on the system.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP2Ivo5bF9g
Update: Though not dramatic, the system does sound a tiny bit 2-3% better, slightly clearer and slightly more well defined bass. Not sure if the casters effected the bass, and the recap simply brought the unit back into spec.
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I finished Round 1 of updating my LaScalas circa 1980 AA
They should now be approximately in the same condition they where when new.
- Watco Danish Natural oil all the way around, they soaked it up. Brush on, wipe off.
- Recapped the AA crossovers with the Sonicap that Bob Crites sells
- Replaced steel screw that secures inductor with a stainless one per Crites recommendation.
- Replaced the gaskets between the Squaker and the Horns with the ones Crites sells, perfect fit.
- Added IKEA locking Casters rated 125-150lbs ea to the bottoms of the cabinets, exact fit between screws. Pilot holes.
- Cleaned smoked glass tops and reinstalled with new felt pads
Total parts cost is approximately $150
Wood looks nice natural and oiled, crossovers sound approx the same, the casters I should have added 30 years ago.
When I purchased them I did use Minwax natural stain 2 coats just to bring out a little bit of grain.
When I have time, and some unallocated $$, I may order two baby cheeks Beyma CP-25 tweeters and mount them on top of the glass on a sled just to see if there is any difference.
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ESR Measurements
................New......Old
...............200V....100V
13uF........0.16......0.24
02uF....... 0.17......0.21
My new toy (Blue-Bob Parker) that arrived a couple of days ago, still learning how to use it.
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Short thread on Sonicaps, they are non polar....
https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/159537-sonicap-polarity-or-non-polar/
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Finished recapping the first speaker, new squawker gasket perfect fit, and oiled the cabinet, also added wheels to cabinet.
Do caps really break in? Been playing for 4 hours, no huge difference in mono compared to the other speaker, but no smoke either.......
The original caps were within 10% of spec, not bad for 35 years old.
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Crites site on rebuilding AA's....
http://www.critesspeakers.com/rebuilding_a_set_of_type_aa.html
Scroll down to this part....
Doesn't matter at all which wire goes to which lead. This is a crossover. It handles only AC signals. Therefore there cannot be any polarity for the capacitors.
Jim,
Thanks, this is the only text I didn't click on.
They should color it red for dummies
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Well when you have a metal can on the cap as in a motor run cap you can determine which leg is which. Otherwise you need to listen to the cap to tell. You could ask the maker if they identify the two ends as some do but they may not. Yes you can use it either way and the cap will work the problem is it will sound different. If you want to believe that it makes no difference that is fine. If you listen to a cap both ways and you can't tell the difference then it really doesn't not matter does it? It is very simple to do a trial and see for yourself. If that is too much trouble then as before it does not really matter. Yes it is a pita but them's the breaks. Look on the bright side if you just install them willy nilly you have a 50% chance of getting it right.
Please stop giving false information, it only confuses the person trying to get a real answer, which he did from Bob Crites.
So again, those caps are bipolar, you can hook them up either way.
Before my first post, I tested the cap on my DMM both ways and concluded it was non-polar.
The schematics for the AA show polarity for the caps
Other than that I don't know enough about circuits to infer.
Given, if non polar would work either direction.
As to performance of an NP cap, is it identical in both directions, not sure.
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Anything on a Digital Multi meter that would give me a clue? or a simple test rig?film capacitors which are wound have an inside to the winding and an outside just like a coil of wire does. And just like a coil of wire you want the signal to enter into the centre of the winding not the outside. Any capacitor or inductor for that matter will sound better when connected in this way. You can tell which way is which (if the capacitors are not marked) by listening to them in each direction and it will be easy to tell which way is the correct way. I you can't hear any difference one way or the other for what ever reason you are on your own.
I would hate to start going back and forth on the crossover, not sure I could remember which is better unless the other was terrible.
Well when you have a metal can on the cap as in a motor run cap you can determine which leg is which. Otherwise you need to listen to the cap to tell. You could ask the maker if they identify the two ends as some do but they may not. Yes you can use it either way and the cap will work the problem is it will sound different. If you want to believe that it makes no difference that is fine. If you listen to a cap both ways and you can't tell the difference then it really doesn't not matter does it? It is very simple to do a trial and see for yourself. If that is too much trouble then as before it does not really matter. Yes it is a pita but them's the breaks. Look on the bright side if you just install them willy nilly you have a 50% chance of getting it right.
Carlson has some good videos, esp for the antique radio guys.
Like my French girfriend of years gone by, every word she said sounded interesting, I even understood some of it....
This is how to find the good side of NP caps video
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I'd still take it to a cabinet shop for a new birch box and transplant the motor-board and rear board if the label is important.
My experience with HW store cuts is 80 accuracy from one side of the cut to the other.
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film capacitors which are wound have an inside to the winding and an outside just like a coil of wire does. And just like a coil of wire you want the signal to enter into the centre of the winding not the outside. Any capacitor or inductor for that matter will sound better when connected in this way. You can tell which way is which (if the capacitors are not marked) by listening to them in each direction and it will be easy to tell which way is the correct way. I you can't hear any difference one way or the other for what ever reason you are on your own.
Anything on a Digital Multi meter that would give me a clue? or a simple test rig?
I would hate to start going back and forth on the crossover, not sure I could remember which is better unless the other was terrible.
The Sonicaps are not polarized. No capacitor used in a crossover could be polarized. All signals in the crossover are AC. Polarized capacitors are used in DC circuits.
Bob Crites
I can see that I still have a ways to go before I know what the right question is.
Bob, I'm your customer, appreciate the info on a Sunday night, I trust their won't be an up-charge for emergency service.
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film capacitors which are wound have an inside to the winding and an outside just like a coil of wire does. And just like a coil of wire you want the signal to enter into the centre of the winding not the outside. Any capacitor or inductor for that matter will sound better when connected in this way. You can tell which way is which (if the capacitors are not marked) by listening to them in each direction and it will be easy to tell which way is the correct way. I you can't hear any difference one way or the other for what ever reason you are on your own.
Anything on a Digital Multi meter that would give me a clue? or a simple test rig?
I would hate to start going back and forth on the crossover, not sure I could remember which is better unless the other was terrible.
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Just looked in the bag, and no polarity marking on the sonicaps.
Can't find a data sheet either.
AA Crossover shows polarity.
Are the Sonicaps non-polar???
RSVP I'm eager to solder.
Thanks,
Update: If all you are looking for is the answer, the Sonicaps are non polar.....
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1. Crossbraces doghouse to sidewalls would be the first I would do.
2. Getting a flare in the cutout for the tweeter
The do other things
Crossbraces lots of examples, and volti sells them.
Tweeter flares, haven't seen this one. Any pics and sources or are we talking router work?
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Another source for custom crossovers, I believe Volti may use this company for their crossovers.
North Reading Engineering, North Reading, MA USA
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If you don't mind spending a little coin, drive the damaged one to a reputable cabinet shop or two and get a quote, it's a slam dunk for them the cabinets are simple by their standards. IMHO MDF is OK baltic birch which they have plenty of is better, maybe also ask for a quote to make a new box and move the motor board over and get it veneered?
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I mention this because we all became believers in blind taste testing for awhile. Amps are more like whiskey than rulers. All the amps tested could fairly be called perfect. None had greater than 0.01% distortion, let's say. But in the end the personality of one grabbed more yeses than the personality of the others. And it is worth noting that each of the dozen amps had fans who choose it as their #1 pick. Just what you would expect if sampling whiskey, right?
Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk
They all have a personality
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LaScala Update Upgrade
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Very cool to do a project like that!