JewishAMerPrince

---------------- On 9/2/2004 5:00:22 PM cjgeraci wrote: ] I would have to respectfully disagree with Jerry on this one. Or you could go with a 1080 for your mains. Based on my listening, the 1080 (or 1095) provides more than just extra headroom with respect to your mains. ---------------- Carl In Orange Peel's post that I responded to, he was looking towards a 5x200 amp. This to me means 1095 not 1080 which is 2 channel. It just so happens that YES the 1080 is an EXRAORDINARY amp and the 1075 is a great amp. However, unfortunatly the 1095 is not the same. It's sort of like the HULK, great brute force but not heavy on finesse. It is a bit muddier, has a higher hum level (really high on some) and lacks the "inner detail" of the 1080 (or 1075 for that matter) Some Rotel experts attribute that to crosstalk throught the grounding system that Rotel uses on the 1095. JR

---------------- On 8/30/2004 6:15:54 PM Orange Peel wrote: If I get an amp it will be a 200x5 just to have that extra headroom, and maybe better low level listening, detailed, etc at lower volumes, even though I love to listen to my stuff cranked ---------------- Be your own judge, but as I mentioned I really crank my system (in a huge room)and never have fallen short of headroom. I'm not sure the additional 2 DB would be worth it to me. Remember, 3 DB is about the smallest difference that the human ear can clearly descern. It is also a point to note that the RF7 achieves Dolby Reference level of 115 db @ 1 meter with about 20 watts. If I felt I needed more, I would bi-amp with two 1075s (6 DB) before I would use a 200 wpc 1095. As far as inner detail at lower volumes,the 1075 is an incredible amp in this reguard. It is also quieter than most of it's 200wpc brethern. These two comments are based on actual listening tests, not on specifications.

---------------- On 8/29/2004 10:33:52 PM Orange Peel wrote: I read that Sunfire's line is a warmer combo with Klipsch, I don't think I would hate it though I used to run a HK AVR 520 and it was warmer than the Elite and I still loved it. Thanks JR for the info and for any other info you can provide. ---------------- I would seriously take a look at Rotel in that case. I run a $1000 RMB 1075 (rated 120 wpc continuous on all five channels driven) in an enormouse listening room (7000+ cu ft)at high SPL and have NEVER clipped it, not once! Some will say the RF7s would do better with the 200 wpc RMB 1095 ($2K), but I have never found the need for quite that much. My benchmark program material is the Master & Commander DVD where the cannon volly's are at extreme SPL have significant power gobbeling low frequency information on left/center/right and come at you repeadedly with extreme intensity. Cranking up the volume, my ears give up way before the 1075 does. The 1075 shows no sign of instability under that heavy use and stays cool as a cucumber. The individual cannon shots can be distinctly descerned so I know the amp is maintaining good control of the speakers (damping). I have my fronts set to LARGE and my center to Small, so the RF7s (and my 1075) get to do a lot of LF heavy lifting. You could start with your receiver as a pre-pro and then step up from there to a Rotel RSP1068 ($1799) which I have AB'd against the Aragon Stage One and found to be sonically quite equivalent, and have more features (PLIIx). Prices are list, YMMV most Rotel dealers will discount 10-15% (sometimes more for a previous customer). Picking a good dealer is important. Used Rotel gear is another possibility, and sometimes a good choice. Rotel products have excellent long term reliability (even though there are some infant mortality issues) and Rotel has been known at times to honor warrantee to second owners in spite of their printed policy stating otherwise. Used 1075 seem to hold their value well, and sell on Audiogon for anywhere from $700-800. Not bad considering they can be had new for $850-900!

---------------- On 8/28/2004 11:59:07 AM Orange Peel wrote: I LOVE the bright/crisp/clean sound the Elite receiver gives out through my RF's, what amps out there would you all recommend for that same "detailed" sound?? Scott ---------------- ARAGON of course. That's my recommendation for what you are seeking. I myself run Rotel amps because I prefer the warmer/fuller sound of those amps when matched up with the brightness of the Klipsch references. JR

Freak And if you feed those RF/RC7s some REALLY good clean power you will be amazed at what they will do. While the RF/RC7 will run off a walkman, they do love heavy power. When I switched from my Denon 3801 to my Rotel Components it sounded like I had done a major speaker upgrade as well! JR

That I find very interesting because before I purchased my 2d SVS sub, my PB2+ when I faxed my info to HSU as I did to SVS all I got back was essentially an electronic sales brocure. Nothing personal, no communications, SQUAT! JR

You should get some solid advice from SVS. I believe I read somewhere that Tom V (the V in SVS) has LaScalas or KHorns in his own home. Based on that fact, you will probably get some advice on setup that you couldn't get elsewhere. JR

---------------- On 8/25/2004 1:35:18 PM htxpert wrote: I just completed an Install with a highly regarded entry level pre amp and I thought that its DSP was terrible information that was present on other pre amps I have installed was buried or omitted on this pre amp Did you evaluate the two with an Analog source at all or just digital ? Cheers And As Always Happy Listening ---------------- If you don't mind, could you name that Pre-Pro...I'm in the market for a new one myself and want to know which to avoid. Answering your question, yes I compared the two with analog, multi-input SACDs. As far as a vertical RC7, the gymnastics and cosmetics of that may take some ingiuity. As of now my RC sits atop my Hitachi RPTV in my family room. I have planned a dedicated HT addition here at my own home but my HOA keeps shooting me down. If I ever get that approved and built, I will move to a PJ and screen which will make that easier to hide. JR

Ray Sorry, I must have missed that post about the electronics. Just to let you know, I wasn't trying to be critical of your equipment choices, just better trying to "weigh" the validity of your initial evaluations. I have a specific purpose for this. I build two to three Multi-million dollar luxury homes a year, more and more of which are being equipped with dedicated theaters. Since Audio is a passion of mine I closely participate and/or solely select equipment. The Ultra system , although pricy, could be a strong candidate for the rooms where we endeaver to hide the speakers. (I, myself find nothing attractive about small black boxes.) One of these homes is under construction at this very moment. Since I currently have nowhere to audition the Ultras, your initial opinion post was of more interest to me than most. I just needed to fully qualify it. The last home we built was set up nearly identically to my own HT. RF/RC/RS 7 series powered by Rotel separates. The sound is totally and unequivocally seamless and the surround steering is superb. My installer is both a Klipsch and Rotel dealer and I have had the opportunity to listen to the 7 series with both Aragon and Rotel. For my ears I prefer the Rotel/Klipsch mix, to the Aragon/Klipsch mix, even without the differring cost factored in. I think this is largely due to the superior steering of CL processor in the 1098 over the Motorola in the Stage 1. The 1098 also seems to yeild less "cupped hands" horn effect out of the RC7 than the Stage 1 does, probably due to differences in frequency response.

Grimer First you should understand that so-called "shielded" speakers are not shielded at all. There is no way to effectively shield strong magnetic fields. Understanding that, how does a so called "shielded" speaker work it's magic? The answer is very simple;it uses bucking magnets to cancel the external effects of the drivers magnet. Bucking magnets are nothing more than large magnets of opposite polarity to the speakers magnet, and usually strapped right to the back of the drivers own magnet. That having been said, I would look up a speaker repair facility in your area. If you can find one with some real expertise they should be able to modify your existing sub with bucking magnets. I did that years ago with a KG 3 to create a center channel that could be placed on top of my RPTV. One word of caution, any attempt at "shielding" is never 100 effective, even in a manufactured speaker. You may still have residual problems with a "shielded" sub. Very simply, your subs location under the TV is not optimal. Jerry Rappaport

---------------- On 8/23/2004 8:11:01 AM firefighter wrote: This next sub should be the last and I want to know I did all I could to make the best decision. Any and all opinions are needed. Thanks, Jack. ---------------- If your next sub is truely to be your last there are many other factors to consider besides a comparo review. Room size is one biggie. Two different similarly priced subs may behave completely differently outside the confines of a test lab. It is my experience that most people who own LaScalas don't have them in a tiny room. You may wish to look beyond your potential selections to subs with more bass horsepower, even if it means a brief delay to accumulate the extra funds. I say this from experience, I was at your decision point once before and chose a sub (SVS 2039pci) that was formidable but insufficiently potent for my room size. Neddless to say that lead very quickly to an unplanned upgrade. I could give you many recommendations, however, may I suggest you avail yourself of one of the benefits of SVS. If you fax or email your requirements, your room dimensions, equipment placement and seating to SVS they will respond to you with recommendations as to which sub you should be looking at. The expertise behind those recommendations goes way beyond anything you may be able to pick up here. This is a free service with no obligation to buy and they will not try to oversell you. I have even heard instances where their recommendations were for other brands of subs!!!! For myself, this kind of personalized service and concern for customer speaks volumes about a company and it's products. Those very important aspects unfortunatly are never brought up in a test report. Jerry Rappaport

Ray The RS7 employs a K122 horn tweeter designed for it and the RS35 employs a K129DN, while they both may have the same size voice coils they are definity different. Also, the RS7 employs a much larger bass driver so it has fuller bodied lower midrange. When tested side by side the RS7 has the warm full bodied sound of the earlier (pre Chinese) References, including the RF7, while the RS35 has the somewhat drier,brighter sound of the newer Klipsch series'. The overall effect is that the RS7 sounds smoother and more robust, quite like the RF7, while the RS35 has a thinner (some call it air-ier)character. While some may prefer one sound to the other, the point is that they are DIFFERENT timbre which when used together cause the surround action to "jump" from speaker to speaker when panning rather than move seamlessly. I am still curious as to what electronics you used for your test, especially wether or not you used the same setup for both systems. As a HT Expert, you are aware that different electronics can make the same speakers sound completely different, and that surround effects , movement, seamlessness and center clarity are highly dependent on the quality of the processor.

(QUOTE) WAF It has been my experience that smaller objects in the home have more of an appeal for women than larger ones (We are talking speakers) The THX Ultra II system is more compact than the RF-7 based system However it is only available in Galaxy Black finish (UNQUOTE) RAY Cosmetically, my wife, who is not by any stretch of the imagination an interior designer, was very happy when I got rid of my RF3s in black in favor of the RF7s in cherry. But that is for our house. I am not an interior designer, but an architect/engineer and I will tell you that women don't necessarily prefer smaller objects, it's how well the meld into the environment ie, we have a baby grand piano in our living room, not a spinet. Additionally,when I spoke of WAF I was referring more to the $$$$. Speaking about the $$, True, one may be able to sweet talk a dealer to near the list price of an 7 series setup, but then again, if the relationship is strong, one should be able to negotiate the list on the 7 series in like fashon. Whatever the case, the THX Ultras are still way more money, and questionable as far as I am concerned in terms of price/value. You never addressed the issue of electronics...what were you using for each system? Another thing I just noticed, your comparison was between a full THX Ultra system verses a MIXED 7 series, 35 series, 15 series. I have no doubt that that setup would lack trhe seamlessness of the THX in surround. It is grossly mismatched. Try to imagine the Blue Angels in their F/A 18s flying in competition to the Thunderbirds in their F16s but with the T Birds with a spitfire in place of one F16 and two Cessnas on wing. Might look interesting, but certainly isn't competitive or harmoneous. Try getting some RS7s in place of those 35s and at least RB 35s for the rears and then do the same comparo...I'll bet you will find there is quite a difference. I say this with authority because when I transitioned from 3 series to 7 series I kept my RS3 side surounds and rear surrounds. The system was only so-so till I got the 7 series suurrounds. I can also speak with authority about the RB15s, since I use them for mains in my MBR. While an excellent "little speaker", they can't hold a candle to 7 series, they sound "horn..ie and nasal by comparison. A "system" is like a chain, only as strong as it's weakest link.

Ray Once again, thanks for your review and comments on value. I have yet to see or listen to the THX system but it just seems to me that it lacks one of the things that has always drawn me to Klipsch, ie: bang for the buck. It may have the ultimate bang, but unfortunatly most of us DON'T own our own audio salons and therefore have the luxury of having whatever we want at our disposal. We have to deal with things like WAF, college tuition, etc. With discounts from autorized dealers my 7 series 7.1 setup cost me just north of 5K and that includes an SVS PB2+. Nothing is to be construed to take anything away from the THX system, just at 10K for the entire setup it BETTER sound unreal by comparison to the 7 series. I'm curious to what electronics you drove each system with. Was that apples to apples? I'm asking that because in my experience, most audio salons tend to assemble "systems", with lower grade speakers being demonstrated by lower grade electronics in order to attempt to keep a balanced price point. The characteristics you attribute to system steering, the seemless sound, pans, center dialog, etc are all more usually influenced by the Surround processor than they are the speakers. I know that when I upgraded electronics on my 7 series, that things that were "buried and inaudible" all of a sudden sprang forth from my 7 series. Jerry Rappaport

How would you rate the two once you factor in the cost difference, including the cost of a robust sub for the 7 series system. Thanks Jerry Rappaport

If your room is a small one that configuration will work fine. You may, however want to look at a larger (10" or 12") subwoofer even in a smaller room. With wall speakers, for best performance, your receiver should be configured with all speakers set to small and have the low frequencies below 100 hz directed to the sub. You may want to look at the Panasonic receivers with digital amps, the one I have the XR25 for my MBR setup driving RB15s and an RCX4 center. It is a 6.1 receiver with 100wpc the Panny's seem to sound very nice with smaller reference setups. The XR50 is a 7.1. I also believe there are some new models available.

I too once had a 2039pci and was pleased but not thrilled with the sound. Cranking her up just resulted in the speaker bottoming. My listening room is also 20x20 but has a 10 ft ceiling. As it turned out the 2039 pci was just not sufficient for the volume of my listening room because of the size of the room and the fact that there are openings to other parts of the house. Big bass in a big room just requires a lot of horsepower, and the 2039pci, while a fine sub, just doesn't have what it takes to deliver BIG BASS in a big room. So, after consulting with Tom V of SVS, I replaced the 2039 with a PB2+ (skipped the PB2isd which Tom thought would be a bit light) and the sound is now awe inspiring. Just one warning, in the SVS world BIG BASS means a BIG BOX, so if cosmetics are important, you may want to look at other options.

---------------- On 8/22/2004 12:15:55 PM jephdood wrote: To be honest, I worry about UPS more than I do the dealers. ---------------- With good reason. A few years back when I bought my 3 series from a local authorized dealer (Sound Advice) they did not have the RC3 in stock so they shipped it out of their Orlando warehouse directly to me via UPS. And, you guessed it, it arrived with shipping damage and needed to be replaced....what a hassel. Then I purchased my 7 series from the same dealer and they did not have the RF7s in stock in cherry so they had to order them in from the warehouse. Again, you guessed it, one of them arrived damaged. While I eventually did get a good replacement, I wound up with two towers that were not consecutive serial numbers (which I would have preferred). I recently purchased some other klipsch speakers from an online source that is not an authorized dealer. They were carefully packaged and shipped via Fedex graound and arrived without incident.

I'll enter my vote for the Panny's. I use an XR25 in my MBR surround system with RB15s and an RCX4. The amps in the Panny are remarkably clean smooth and have even frequency response(believe it or not much better sounding than those in the Denon 3801 that used to power that system,the Denons tend to empasize upper midrange, which the Panny's don't). And, as formerly mentioned, the price of the Pannys is right!

I made the jump from RF3s (originals) to RF7s and you will find that the difference is night and day, truely amazing, well worth WHATEVER the cost. The 7 series is a completely different league than either the 3 series or the 5 series..case closed! Also, I would be prepared to eventually make some changes in electronics if you own a "typical" receiver . After upgrading speakers I found that to really make the 7 series sing, that I needed to upgrade from my Denon receiver into separates with good clean power. It's not that the 7s are difficult to drive, or even need alot of power...it's just that they have this extraordinary potential for really big sound that can only be unleashed with good clean power, and plenty of it.

---------------- On 8/5/2004 6:18:33 AM 007 wrote: This is what I get for buying from an authorized dealer? I have to go through that if I have a problem? Hell I just assume buy online from an unauthorized dealer and live with it. ---------------- Unfortunatly, just because they are authorized dealer's doesn't make them smart, honest, or even customer friendly. Klipsch has not been known for making sterling choices of it's authorized dealer's in the past. They seem to be getting a bit better, however.

I'm interested in the 2.2v. Will you take a KV1 in trade?

I don't think that any new designs have emerged from Aragon since the acquisition by Klipsch. Additionally, I think since acquiring Aragon, Klipsch has missed the boat completely in aligning and marketing their products as compatible items. Even at my local Reference dealer, where they also market Aragon, the push is towards another brand, never towards Aragon. Even here on these boards you will see very littled action compared to here in the speaker area. It's sort of like Aragon is the lost child. Someday, perhaps, the light will go on and the marketing Guru's at Klipsch will see what a dynamite combination of products they have.

One point that is rarely brought up about this subject is the potential for a coax to create a ground loop, especially from a satelite receiver or cable tv box. There is no electrical pathway in a toslink cable for the possibility of a ground loop to occur.

I use some 12 ga biwaire cable from www.knukonceptz.com . They also have nice 2 conductor in both 10 and 12 ga and some excellent and reasonably priced Banana plugs. JR