Curmudgeon

Colin, nothing personal but if you're going to quote someone use his or her original words in context. The words you left out of my second sentence vastly changes its meaning: Original - "If you're sitting and listening to music critically the difference is usually obvious but if you're working or otherwise distracted it can be hard to notice." Misquoted - "If you do sit and listen to music critically the difference is obvious but it can be hard to notice." My griping is now concluded, its time for more of my demented opinions (groan): Colins suggestion of buying older used classical LPs is a great idea, except in reality you shouldnt expect but so much dynamic range (although you can find some great titles that were never released in CD format). A CD actually has much more dynamic range available than the average LP. Even the best half-speed mastered 180 gram LP just does get near a CD's 90db dynamic range (average LP's run 50-70 at best). I love my LPs but do recognize their limitations; I just appreciate them for the type of sound they have compared to CDs. Colins comment about orchestras hitting 130db peaks is true and ANY compression changes the sound negatively, so both formats are incapable of 100% accurate reproduction. If numbers were everything a CD would have sonic superiority but the problem there is that music is about more than dynamic range, signal-to-noise ratios, distortion, etc., etc. Rhythm, timing, timbre, and the natural decaying of notes are the main elements that determine whether the music sounds as it was recorded rather than like a tin can on a string. These elements are greatly affected by room size, shape, furnishings, source and amplification equipment, speakers, and rarely can be made to sound exactly like an original recording (especially live concerts). When all the variables are considered and combined its my opinion that LPs extract more of the right things needed from the analog wave than a CD can. I may be nuts but at least Ive got plenty of company in the asylum. The new formats may be a step forward but its starting to look like VHS vs Beta all over again. SACD supposedly has a 120db dynamic range while DVD-A can do around 140db but that doesnt mean the best format will win. DVD-As 140db range doesnt mean that it is automatically the best format either, but its a good start. The shame of it is that the winner wont be determined by consumers in a market economy but by big-money corporations using unscrupulous methods to try to bring an early demise to the competing format. Essentially, the corporation with the best lawyers will prevail, lets just hope some of the lawyers are music fans. Maybe some of them actually own turntables.

Besides the previously mentioned movies: "Gladiator" in DTS-ES, opening battle scene. If your system is set up properly the arrows fly in all directions, and when the catapults launch it will really show off a subwoofer's power. Another good one is "U571" in DTS, especially the depth-charging scenes. This DVD will really show off the overall power of your system as the explosions occur and the creaking noises from the submarine's hull move around the speakers quite a bit. On the quieter side, "Bram Stoker's Dracula" has very good effects. These aren't in-your-face type effects but are more subtle, there's numerous scenes where there are really creepy noises that move around the channels to give a good, eerie environment. Its enough to make my cats lift their heads up and look around when they're in the room. "The Haunting" in DTS-ES has pretty good effects also, but you need the room lights off and the volume up for proper enjoyment. As for Star Wars Episode 1, if you can get the DVD for free it may be a good demo disc but there's no way I would pay for one. The movie is not up to the originals and the Jar Jar character is so obnoxious that it brings back the need for "barf bags" in theaters. I saw it in the theater but won't be buying this DVD no matter how good the sound is.

I would recommend a Rega Planet as a good, no frills CD player. They're expensive new but can be found used very easily on eBay, Audiogon, or the like for around $400.00 or so. The unit has a nice sound & excellent Burr-Brown DAC's so it is good as a stand-alone player. Buying used equipment is not as risky as it sounds and can save you significant amounts of money. If you get it from the original owner and they have the manual, box & packing it usually means they took good care of it. Also, I would not recommend putting ANY equipment on top of speakers, especially a CD player. Vibration from the speaker cabinets can affect the CD players sound and bring an early death to the circuit boards in any component. Any kind of shelf is better than putting components on top of speakers. Good luck!

In regard to the last few posts: Sorry, but I have to agree with Mobile here that vinyl in decent condition played back on good deck/arm/cartridge combos has a slightly more appealing sound. If you're sitting and listening to music critically the difference is usually obvious but if you're working or otherwise distracted it can be hard to notice. For a goofy analogy consider this: the movie "Airplane" is pretty funny just listening to the dialog but if you're REALLY paying attention to what's happening on the screen there's so many sight gags going on its hard to pick up on all of them without multiple viewings of the movie. Music can be like this on multiple listenings, as I've improved my equipment over the years I'll pick up on nuances or background noises in the recording that didn't stand out as well when played previously, but your source material has to have it there to begin with. Another way to think about it is that music is an analog waveform which an LP duplicates mostly true to form (other than RIAA EQ) but a CD is a digitized version of that waveform. Depending on how many pieces the wave has been sliced into yields the APPROXIMATED analog wave which a CD is giving you. If you think of a connect-the-dots picture or dot-matrix type images compared to their originals you can get an idea of what I'm driving at: CD's get CLOSE but still don't reproduce a true analog waveform entirely in its frequency and amplitude. Both DVD-A and SACD should do better at this but I can't give an opinion on that since I don't own one yet (I'm waiting for a format winner). If you talk to musicians or recording engineers they'll almost always tell you that CD's are limiting them in how they record material but one must go with the format that's popular or they won't make any money. Don't misconstrue what I'm rambling about here: CD's do have their advantages as far as convenience and dynamic range, plus they work much better in a car than a LP so I'm not about to give up my CD's. Vinyl can be a pain to deal with and its not for everyone but there's just too many people (including musicians) that prefer its type of sound to relegate LP's to the boneyard anytime soon. LP's are still in production due to DEMAND, otherwise the money-grubbing music industry would just give you CD's or whatever they can make the most profit off of. I won't be selling my LP's until a format can equal or better it in ALL ways, not just convenience. Disclaimer: This has been an opinion, and we all know what they're like. No suicides or drinking binges are required to deal with an alternate viewpoint, but inflamed responses from the personally offended can be quite entertaining to read (hence this forum). Merry Christmas & Happy New Year! ------- Linn Sondek LP12 w/Basik Plus arm Mobile Fidelity UltrAmp (Michael Yee PA-1) amp Rotel RC-1070 preamp Rega Planet CD player B&W CDM9NT speakers This message has been edited by Audioholic on 12-24-2001 at 10:12 AM

Tsk, Tsk! Everyone play nice or you'll have to stand in the corner and listen to Abba on a Soundesign 8-track player (repeatedly). Also, the REAL secret to audio nirvana is a boombox. Just think: it totally eliminates the need for separate components, expensive interconnects, expensive speaker cables, power conditioners, and even the need for 120v power itself. However, one must be very careful in battery choice to get the proper "slam" and "imaging": Eveready gives a nice warm sound while Duracells have better RF shielding (Copper-top). Stay away from Japanese batteries - they sound so "transistory" and bright. Improbable as it is, all other explanations are more improbable still. "THE ADVENTURE OF SILVER BLAZE" - Arthur Conan Doyle

I run about 40% vinyl to 60% CD's on the average. I tend to collect audio stuff and turntables just seem to find their way to me via friends, horse-trades, etc. I'm up to over 10 decks now (starting to lose track) but they are fun to mess with when time allows. Vinyl definitely is preferable to CD's for sound as long as you're willing to put up with the inconvenience and an occaisional snap-crackle-pop. Most people have not heard vinyl with a good deck/arm/cartridge combo and quite literally don't know what they're missing (your mom's BSR stacker with the spring-loaded plastic tonearm just doesn't cut it). If I intend to pay attention to the music I'll spin vinyl, but its still hard to beat CD's when working or reading for non-stop tunes in the background. Here's most of the relics I own (all clean & functioning): 1974 Linn LP12, Valhalla w/Basik Plus arm (main deck) 1979 Linn LP12, Basik w/Infinity Black Widow arm Yamaha PF-800 Kyocera PL-701 B&O RX2 Denon DP45F Pioneer PL-50 w/Infinity Black Widow arm Sansui FR-3080 Sansui SR-5090 Garrard Zero 100SB ------------------ Rooms $4.00 a week & up, mostly up - Free showers when it rains! Amalgamated Association of Morons, Local 6 7/8

I would definitely recommend the Outlaw 1050 receiver. I auditioned one for 30 days and found it to have excellent build quality, features, plus it has a first class high-current amplification section. The 65 watts rating is conservative and will put many 100-125 watt receivers to shame while delivering clean sound. Features are easy to set up and use, also the owner's manual is extremely well written. I ended up returning my 1050 to Outlaw because I decided to get their 950 model pre-pro but if the 950 wasn't just about ready to come out I would definitely have kept the 1050. Outlaw's customer service is exceptional, when I phoned them to set up the return I was treated very well and they even asked if I would talk to one of their reps to give my opinion as to what I did and didn't like about the 1050. This rep was also cordial, very interested in my opinion, and demonstrated that Outlaw is trying to do business on a much more personal level than the mass marketers. There really is minimal effort and risk to audition one, Outlaw refunds the receiver price plus the cost of shipping paid to get it from them to you. The only thing it costs you if you don't keep it is the return shipping charges via the carrier of YOUR choice, as an example I paid for UPS Ground to the tune of $15.00. As far as I'm concerned fifteen bucks is acceptable to be able to try out a unit in your home and if you can get your retailer to loan you an Onkyo just do a head-to-head comparison. I've got nothing against Onkyo, I had a P304 preamp and M504 amp combo of theirs for a while which produced good mid-fi sound. In this case Outlaw's advantage is that it is not a discontinued model and you're not paying for Onkyo's advertising budget or distributor/dealer markups. What you may not realize is that whatever the Onkyo's original price was the retailer is still making a profit off of the "closeout" amount you're considering paying for it now. Anyway, good luck and let your ears make the final decision, all the advertisements and other people's opinions mean little if you yourself aren't happy with your purchase. ------------------ Rooms $4.00 a week & up, mostly up - Free showers when it rains! Amalgamated Association of Morons, Local 6 7/8

Hello everyone, I was reading various posts on the forum and ventured over to the home theater section only to notice the Academy topic. Started reading and got the eerie feeling that it was just too familiar so I hit the eBay link to discover that I bought the speaker being discussed here. I had been looking for a decent Academy for a while and decided to go for this one, apparently from the other postings I got a fairly decent deal on it. I mailed out payment yesterday so hopefully I'll have it in a week or so. I got this to go with my Cornwall II's due to my recent decision to move them from 2-channel to home theater duty. I'm currently using a Cerwin-Vega LS6C which matched up OK but not great so I can't wait to hear the system with the properly matched center. If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations on the Academy speaker I would be glad to hear them. Hope everyone has a nice holiday! 2-CHANNEL Mobile Fidelity UltrAmp (Michael Yee PA-1) amp Rotel RC-1070 preamp Rega Planet CD player Linn Sondek LP12 turntable Denon DR-F7 cassette deck B&W CDM9NT speakers HOME THEATER Sherwood R-956 (utilized as a pre-pro) Acurus A125X5 amp Sony DVP-S330 DVD Sony CDP-C725 CD Toshiba W704 VHS Klipsch Cornwall II main's (Birch) Klipsch KSW12 sub Cerwin-Vega LS6C center (Academy on the way!) Sansui XL-500 rear's (full-range, no Bose mini-cube crap here!) ------------------ Rooms $4.00 a week & up, mostly up - Free showers when it rains! Amalgamated Association of Morons, Local 6 7/8

Here's a little something for the special wire=nirvana crowd: find a copy of the August 1983 issue of Stereo Review, then turn to page 46 for Lawrence Greenhill's article "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear The Difference?". It compares 24-gauge vs 16-gauge vs Monster Cable wire in controlled, double-blind tests using premium audiophile components and gives out plenty of good information. I won't get into the specifics as it is a long article but here's a quote from their conclusions: "This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires." I've listened to a few high-end cables vs 16-gauge OFC wire myself and can't hear the difference either. The magazine article may be 18 years old but the information is still relevant, so far I'm still inclined to spend money on the components over wires that can be used to jump-start diesel trucks. Nothing personal to you "pride of ownership types" out there so spend your money as you will, perhaps on the really impressive Lirpa Labs Lirpa Turbo Steamtable. 2-CHANNEL Mobile Fidelity UltrAmp (Michael Yee PA-1) amp Rotel RC-1070 preamp Rega Planet CD player Linn Sondek LP12 turntable Denon DR-F7 cassette deck B&W CDM9NT speakers HOME THEATER Sherwood R-956 (utilized as a pre-pro) Acurus A125X5 amp Sony DVP-S330 DVD player Sony CDP-C725 CD player Toshiba W704 6-head VHS player Klipsch Cornwall II main's Klipsch KSW12 subwoofer Cerwin-Vega LS6C center (still looking for a Klipsch Academy to match the Cornwall II's) Sansui XL-500 rear's (full-range, no Bose cubes here!)