svberger
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Posts posted by svberger
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2 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:
After seeing the photo you provided, I don't think you need to do anything except get them as close to the corners as you can and go for it. You have to have the bowl of soup first and foremost before you decide how much salt to put in it to "improve" the taste. It's your taste buds, so get the soup and GO FOR IT!
You get it. Thanks very much.
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10 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:
You mention being happy with the bass of LS sans sub. The biggest selling point of the khorn over the LS is that folded horn bass driver and how it couples to the room when situated tight in a corner. Without that option you may feel it's a draw, or even prefer the LS.
I'd say keep the LS and spend the $$ you would have spent on the khorns to upgrade your existing front end or amplification. Just MHO......
The LS's aren't going anywhere. This isn't about replacing the LS's with Khorns. This essentially is about potentially(assuming the seller ever gets back to me) trying Khorns in my space, and seeing if to my ears they provide enjoyment. Who knows, maybe I'll like the way they sound without doing anything to them, and use that as a springboard to get off my lazy rear end and figure out a way to seal them up, build false corners, etc. What I'm quite sure wouldn't happen is if that get in here, and I hate them and then try to improve them by running down rabbit holes trying every possible solution there is. I'm quite sure that I wouldn't hate them though. I've seen enough folks set them up in much more awful set ups then I'm proposing and sing their praises, admitting that they are not set up correctly and still are providing a big wow factor.
As for my front end, with 3 fantastic McIntosh tube amps, plus 2 excellent McIntosh solid state amps, I'm quite sure there is no need to upgrade anything.
But thanks for your opinion.
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19 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said:
Ooohhhh That's a bad room for KornerHorns. 😟
It’s always interesting to me how people see and hear things differently in this hobby.
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Now if I can just get the seller to respond to my email…
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6 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:
If you don't want to mess with enclosed backs and are looking for 'plug and play' do not buy K Horns. They take some work to get right and you will just get frustrated. Room also looks kind of narrow and you will likely have to sit too close because the drivers fire out from the corners at 45 degrees. Narrow room means a smaller triangle and you need to sit a decent distance back for the drovers to converge.
Stick with La Scalas and if some Cornwalls or Chorus pop up, or even better Fortes, they should work very well in your room and be plug and play.
The thing is, where others are obsessive about getting things just right, going to lengths to modify rooms and gear, I'm not. I can just plug and play stuff that others wouldn't. I let my ears decide, and in most cases there's never an issue. The Allison One speakers are a good example. They are designed to go flat against a wall, with at least 2 feet from any sidewall. And I've done that. But I've also had them closer to the sidewall, and I've had them out from the walls and into the room. Mostly to experiment. And while the sound is, admittedly, better when placed as design, I still feel I get at least 90% of that performance when placed not to design.
I have a pair of '77 Cornwalls. They are another example. Hate them against walls or in corners. Like them much more out in the room. But ultimately don't like anywhere as much as I like La Scala's. And we know how that speaker polarizes people.
So I thank you for your advice, but I know myself, and while I am asking for and listening to advice, I think ultimately, if given the opportunity, will get them. And once I do, I'll figure out if I need to improve them or if they bring me enough joy as is to just sit back and enjoy.
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34 minutes ago, Marvel said:
Oooh, about 12 inches too low. What's ths space between the left and right walls to the mantel on the FP?. You should use some cardboard/heavy paper to draw the dimensions and cut it out to see how it would fit on the floor. It's hard to picture with the other speakers sitting there.
43" between walls and mantel.
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1 minute ago, Marvel said:
First time I heard KHorns, was at a co-workers home, mid '70s. Be had them pulled a good two feet into the room. They still sounded pretty incredible, plenty of bass. It wasn't until years later that I found out they were supposed to be in corners.
Do the windws go to the floor or stop partway down the wall?
The windows start about 40" above the floor.
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41 minutes ago, OO1 said:
the fun part of enclosed backs is that you dont need perfect corners or even corners , and it's really not that complex to do -
Older khorns require 3/4 inch plywood , 3 braces for the tail piece , 4 braces for each side , and screws , that's it .
FWIW that would be complex for me, and more then I want to take on. That's why I'm hoping that my corners, and a little simpler maneuvering if really necessary will still provide good taste.
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Thank you gentlemen for your comments. Both very helpful.
I'm not concerned with how they'll look in the room, just how they'll sound. But the wood on the window would be easy enough to achieve, so another good idea to try.
Heinz the Khorn's are AA's. I already have an original pair of AA's that came with my La Scala's, plus now the two Type A aftermarket. I doubt I would get another or ask Dean to transform the one's I have. I'm sure they'll be fine.
I agree that these look great, and I'm really leaning on getting them if I"m able to. I've had one brief conversation with the seller, and now I'm waiting for him reply back to new query I made today. So these are not definite by any stretch yet. I'll let you know if things progress.
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50 minutes ago, hanksjim1 said:
I have both LS and Khorns...honestly, in your situation, if you don't want to mess with closed backs, I would just stick with the LaScalas (maybe try the flatcaps in them too).
I wasn't really happy with my Khorn's bass until I added foam pipe insulation to the rear edges and really pushed them tightly into the corners.
The pipe insulation is easy even for me but is that enough or do I need to do the other enclosures as well? From my reading I'm under the impression that the pipe insulation is only for a better fit into acceptable corners. But if I'm wrong and they would work in my situation that would be great.
I don't plan on getting rid of my La Scala's, and that's where the flat caps reside at the moment. I'd only get the Khorns if I knew it was doable and I could get them by trading stuff that's just sitting idle.
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19 minutes ago, KT88 said:
Sorry, I'm not one of the experts you call. I don't want to be too nosy but I would make it dependent on what these vintage Khorns are going to cost. If it is an attractive price you will always be able to sell them quickly. I personally think that the wood and the carpentry are the biggest value and it looks seriously good. It will come down to you actually having to try it out. If I remember your room correctly from the photos it would be big enough for the khorn and secondly that at least one of the two walls on either side of the corners of the room would allow the speakers to be placed tightly. I built a Khorn myself when I was 19 years old. For little money, out of chipboard. It was a very old drawing, much higher than a Khorn since the 1960s with a 12" driver. But it was always good enough when I had a "good" one of two walls. I had only built one that ran mono for both channels. If it works well in principle, the next step would be to research how good the drivers still are, what xovers it uses, etc. Well...my own interest is to hear your experiences. My gut feeling is that it could work well.
Hi Heinz,
Thanks very much for the encouragement. The reason why I'm particularly interested in these is that they are local with a delivery option, and the seller is open to trades. I have a lot of gear not being used that I can trade, so that this might be a little or no cash outlay.
Here's a picture of my room that can give you a good look at the corners. Behind the curtains are windows. So I would be jamming the Khorns there and from everything I've read those would not be sufficient enough without either false corners, or additional wood added to the speakers. Neither option is realistic for me. I just want to move them into the corners and start listening. Since I'm not looking for the last drop of bass(remember, I like my La Scala's without subs and think they have plenty of bass) I would think that I could still get decent performance out of these Khorns without doing a thing. At least performance that would be good enough for me. I have a nice pair of Dean's Jupiter Flat Stacks Type A crossovers that I would use with them. The seller indicates that the drivers are original and sound great. Obviously I would listen before final commitment.
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Thanks.
So in other words, so they still would need perfect corners to be used as is?
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A nice pair of '72's have become available locally that I have interest in. My problem is that my corners aren't perfect(windows) and I would prefer to not have to build false corners, or anything for that matter and just have the speakers basically plug and play.
The listing notes that cabinet restoration included sanding, staining, and sealing. These look like normal backs that would still require the above mentioned adjustments to get the full Khorn performance. Am I right, or would these be considered sufficiently sealed to not need perfect corners?
What do the experts(meaning everybody that knows more about this then me) have to say?
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Just now, Islander said:
A kitty and a crossover. Love it! That's not just cute, it's Klipsch Cute! A Scala and a skitty. I'm in a mood, and that's just what I needed to see. I'll stop now. BTW, has your cat tried to get around the back of the doghouse to see where the bass is coming from?
Glad it helped provide a smile. It did for me.
Speakers weren't even playing at the time. When they are, she gets nowhere near them. She's been into the front of them before, but this was a first.
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Only a few months old, barely used. I got them for my La Scala's and also a pair of crossovers for my Cornwall's. I decided I liked the original AA's better for the LS's, and just bought the pair of Dean's crossovers being sold here, so these are up for your consideration. Price includes shipping and insurance within the CONUSA. Paypal F&F or add 3% or goods and services.
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For me the only importance when it comes to speakers caps spec is if there is any danger to the speaker running out of spec caps. With a decades old amp, I definitely want the important caps changed out and updated for mostly safety reasons. But for a speaker, if a cap is out of spec, but being that way is of no particular risk to the speaker, listening to the speaker and deciding if I like the way it sounds is of most importance. I have no doubt that 40 year old caps in most cases are out of spec, but like component break in, or patina on a leather jacket, that might add to the overall presentation in ways that new caps will not. Again, this is highly personal and I have no issues with folks who disagree. But I've listened to enough gear and music, both recorded and live, over the course of 50+ years of doing it that I have a pretty good handle of what I like and what is right for me. That won't necessarily stop me from experimenting, as I did with my recent purchase of C*****S crossovers for my LS's and CW's. And it won't stop me from purchasing the approved Klipsch crossovers from Dean when I'm able to . I'm not stuck in my ways(at least I'd like to think I'm not) but I do know what I like.
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1 hour ago, SonofJames said:
It would be really cool to compare caps, just wish I had more patience and time to let things breakin rather that just listening but with winter coming may just do. My 78' Cornwall have Sonicaps and sound ok, perhaps a little too bright sometimes ? I have a set of original oil (non leaking) caps here, and have been curious about the JEM caps.
I liked the difference Sonicaps(white one’s) brought to my ‘77 Cornwalls. That era CW sound has always been a little to thick and muddy for my taste and the new caps seemingly cleared that up some which is an improvement to my ears. The LS’s were never muddy and new caps didn’t hurt the sound but the old caps seem to bring just a tiny more warmth back which makes everything a little more charming for me.
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11 minutes ago, JohnA said:
Not all of the old xovers I've had needed to be recapped. I'm sure the AAs do sound better than the As. The tweeter section adds needed EQ and attenuation to the K-77. In a home setting, the -M tweeter should not need the zener diodes. If you still have original K-77 tweeters, I'd reconnect them until you can install the -Ms ribbon lead diaphragms. The K-77 is rated at 2 watts continuous/20 watts peak. The -M is rated at 5 continuous/50 peak. Change the diaphragm and you'll get the higher rating.
Better yet, Try to find a pair of K-77-Fs(?) that flush mount the tweeter mouth to the front of the cabinet. or send me a PM.
I have K-77's on mine. They sound good to me.
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1 minute ago, babadono said:
@svbergerput type A in one and AA in the other? Listen in mono. Which one do you like mo betta? Install the one you like better in both, DONE. Just an idea.
Not necessary. I've gotten to know each pretty well at this point, and after listening to the C****s A's for a couple months straight, it was pretty easy for me to hear the differences between the 2 when I stuck the original AA's back. I could easily live with either because they're really quite similar. I think the choice of amps makes a much more significant difference then the X/O. The difference between a McIntosh MC225 and McIntosh MC30's was more obvious to my ears.
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18 minutes ago, KT88 said:
I am completely with you on this point, svberger. There is only one objection. As soon as you see the slightest liquid it is dangerous for your health. The old caps contain PCBs which was used for cooling. @deang will know if the old Aerovox caps Klipsch used are affected. PCB is extremely highly toxic and it spreads in the air when you see droplets of it.
Dying for good sound😏
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1 hour ago, deang said:
I worked on these in 2005. That was almost 20 years ago. You don't know whether they're leaking or not unless you lift them from the board. The oil pools under the caps. Sometimes the windings on the autoformer are loose and can be moved up and down the core. You also don't know the true condition unless you have an ESR meter that can measure them in circuit. It was after I did this pair that I quit restoring them.
My cans look fine, but I have not looked under them and don't plan to. Even though I had no issues audibly with the original AA's, I broke down and bought the refreshed A's because, well, I wanted to see what a majority here and on other forums strongly urge for "better" sound. Well, I did, and they do sound good, but not better. Different, a bit , perhaps. It is for that same reason that I'm going to order your X/O rebuilds. If it gets me closer to what my LS's sounded like off the assembly line in '77(and I realize that other factors come into play which makes it impossible to have them sound exactly like '77 new) great. I also realize that ultimately, I may still prefer the old, decrepit cans. But at least I'll have some idea as to the difference. It's all about the journey and the experience.
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15 minutes ago, KT88 said:
Yes, definitely, as long as they go along with it and don't leak the oil. Mine have unfortunately leaked.
Yeah leaks aren't good. One of the nice things about the LS's is that it's easy to keep an eye on that.
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Khorn question
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
You and me both pal.