Destiny
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Posts posted by Destiny
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first try to get them to their full bass potential which will definitely satisfy you... tower speakers might not be able to provide as much sub bass as subwoofers but they can certainly provide enough bass to thump the chest. Maybe the amp is just not driving them to their potential and may not be able to handle any impedance dips these speakers have.
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I don't think crossover frequency has anything to do with headroom. The capability of your mains decide what frequency you should crossover at. If you mains are capable then 80hz should be the max crossover value. I use 80hz as my rf7iis supposedly have an impedance dip at around 70hz.
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The rf7iis have plenty of bass that you feel rather than hear due to their high being a bit over powering... Due to their height it hits the gut and the chest while with a subwoofer you feel it in the legs.
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rythmik is also very good... i would go for something with the most output though
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I am enjoying rf 7iis for the last couple of months in a 2.1 system for now with a marantz 6010 and an anthem mca 20... very big sound, with both movies and music...
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I have read that as well, Not sure when the switch took place. Hd800 has been out for a long time now. They are showing up used at much better prices now due to the recent announcement of the HD800S (supposed to be something like the HD800 with the anax mod and black instead of silver, and including a balanced as well as single ended cable)
I did the anax mod it was super easy and does help, It will be interesting to see if the new version is an actual upgrade in sound. .I expect Sennheiser to add a few hundred $$ to the price tag
It seems to be the new model with headphones , Jack the $$$ to silly levels with all new releases
had a chance to listen to hd800S yet? i have heard that it has been tamed in the highs slights with slightly more extension in bass and the overall effect of slightly lesser resolution/detail...
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i have a rb81ii with a dimple, and i don't remember hearing any difference in sound before and after that dimple happened...
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i recently got rf7iis and they don't sound too bright to me, although there there are not many reflective surfaces in my room...
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nah i just wanted to ask what is the definition of it....
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i will only be 2 meters away though... i like the "in your face" blown away effect...
Every time I see your username, this scene replays in my mind.
i am a sci fi fan and my username and avatar is basically from stargate universe series... the universe exploration ship aka destiny... great movie though and great scene
and can anyone tell me what is voltage trigger on these avrs? trying to find pre out voltage mostly led to this subject...
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is there a list on a site of some kind where i can find out about the output voltages for different processors and receivers? i find tv response times and input delays everywhere, but this stuff is harder to find...
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In reality, if you measure them like everybody else does, the efficiency is more like 96, which is still very high compared to your usual consumer grade speakers. The pro and cinema lines are accurate but the consumer stuff is measured differently, in-room or something, I'm not sure. Efficiency is usually up 4-5 db and bass response is more extended. Same thing with THX, claimed 97 db I think but it's more like 92. Seems like Sound and Vision tested both of these. Here's an example:Like you said it's probably not a concern to you with an external amp, but the biggest issue with RF-7ii's on the bottom end is that there's a big impedance dip in the lower midbass / upper sub area, somewhere around 70 hz. Drops down to like 3 ohms or something. You can hear my Marantz receiver choke on kick drums coupled with bass guitar at higher volumes because of this. For a fat bottom end at high volume these things really need a high current 4 ohm stable external amp.
Unused headroom isn't exactly a bad thing.
this is exactly what i am thinking. I want that extra headroom which i will have due to higher pre out voltage as the amp can go to 450W to 4 ohms also. Bottom end is the main reason i am not going with a receiver even as good as denon 4520 which can give those 160W to the channels i want to drive. An external amp would be much much better with impedance dips.
I read page one and then jumped to page 6...welcome to the forum Destiny and although I have no experience with the AVR-4520ci, I have the previous model the AVR4311ci and have had it for almost 2 years and prior to that I had the Denon 4806 and 4802r. As others mention if you are going to cross the RF-7IIs to a sub I would get the Denon (It's discontinued so you should get a good price--that's what I did when I purchased my latest unit) and use the money you saved to purchase source material or spend it on something else.
Fwiw, I've had my speakers listed below for almost 15 years and listen to loud multichannel music nightly--Last night was Robert Plant and the Band of Joy Bluray and the volume was at -4 on the MV after Audyssey calibration, which is also a plus...My 2 cents.
I have some budget flexibility which is why i am trying to get better parts right now. I am not sure about how good a receiver would handle the impedance dips below 4 ohms, as i will push them for bass. I don't have a proper home theater room right now but i want to buy the equipment first and then build a room around it.
RF-7ii have a 101db sensitivity.
Double the power = a 3db gain in volume
1 watt = 101db
2 watt = 104db
4 watt = 107db
8 watt = 110db
16 watt = 113db
32 watt = 116db
64 watt = 119db
128 watt = 121
Complicating this is that the distance from the speakers can make them drop quite a bit. The difference between 3 feet and 12 feet can cut what you actually hear by about 12 decibels.
http://www.globalrph.com/master_speaker.htm
i will only be 2 meters away though... i like the "in your face" blown away effect...
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the amp adcom gfa 7805,rated at 300w into 8ohms per channel and 29.6db gain with 1.61vrms input sensitivity, would only give me about 164W into 8ohms max when feeded with 1.2v rms input
Ok....let's see....
RF-7ii have a 101db sensitivity.
Double the power = a 3db gain in volume
1 watt = 101db
2 watt = 104db
4 watt = 107db
8 watt = 110db
16 watt = 113db
32 watt = 116db
64 watt = 119db
128 watt = 121
Looks like you will be able to enjoy about 8 seconds of that amp cranked wide open before you lose your hearing. I somehow "think" that Adcom would power your RF-7ii's just fine.
if so then spending for an external amp might be a waste considering that is pretty close to what a receiver like denon 4520(according to soundandvision.com)Keep in mind, a quality power amp will have a much easier time driving a set of speakers, especially when you get above 5 speakers. With a receiver, as you ad more speakers, you get less power from your amp. With power amps, you have the same watts / ch even when adding more speakers.
so this is worrying isn't it?Yes...but you are wise in doing as much research as you can. Then and only then will you be able to make the best decision for you and for your setup.
spending twice the money for really no reason at all? confusedI wouldn't say it's for no reason at all. Truth is....do any of us "need" an amp? No. Are there benefits of adding an external power amp? Absolutely. Are they night and day difference from your receiver? No. Is this all confusing? Yes.
i know that i won't be able to ever hear that loud... though some people say that the rf 7ii is not as efficient as klipsch labels them... i am actually only concerned about the bottom end, which ain't no concern with a separate amp but there is that itch that i should at least have the full capability under the belt, even though i may only crank it up full once in my lifetime... it is not actually research, i just am reading up before i have to buy them, as i still am about a week away from getting the money
... and why don't the avr/ avp makers tell these things in their specs. I have been trying to find the pre out voltages for the rca outputs of these two yamaha and marantz processors on their site and other forums but there are no proper figures... ah, i just don't want that extra 140 watt capability going to waste even though that will be less than 3db difference... -
Adequate voltage is not a problem 99% of the time when using an amp with a avr or preamp. Once you start using pro amps, this change.
not that i need a lot of power the headroom would be lost won't it? e.g using this article
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-voltage-gain
i concluded(correctly hopefully) that the amp adcom gfa 7805,rated at 300w into 8ohms per channel and 29.6db gain with 1.61vrms input sensitivity, would only give me about 164W into 8ohms max when feeded with 1.2v rms input.... if so then spending for an external amp might be a waste considering that is pretty close to what a receiver like denon 4520(according to soundandvision.com)... so this is worrying isn't it? spending twice the money for really no reason at all? confused
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researching more and more gets a little confusing at times... i didn't know of an issue before that i think i must understand before investing into the equipment that i want to buy...
the issue i am wondering about is that with pre outs you need adequate output voltage to the amplifier to get the full potential of the amplifier... e.g the gfa 7805 has input sensitivity of about 1.61Vrms and 29.6db gain etc... so does that mean the the pre should have an output of 1.61vrms as well for full potential? i have heard, or rather read, that normal avrs have very low output like 1vrms... so a dedicated pre pro like the marantz av7702 or the yamaha cx a5100 a better choice or only cheap avrs have this much low output voltage? if i rather use a marantz sr6009 for a pre pro, is that good enough(don't know its output figures on preouts)? this is confusing me... what preout voltage would i need and ofcourse how?
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the adcom amp gfa 7805 should do the trick, i think..
Probably a good solution.
the reason for the pre amp without amps is to save power(assumption only)...Maybe that but usually flagship or near flagship pre/pros use better parts(DACs, analog section, lower noise floor, etc.) than mid level AVR's with preouts. Some mfr's flagship pre/pros have the same guts(minus amps) as their flagship AVR's.
Bill
as i see marantz has 7702 which is about the same price as their flagship avr sr7010... so they would have similar internals? then wouldn't that make the avr as better option? even if you don't use the amps? or the dac would perform better in a preamp due to lower noise floor equaling more detail in sound? my audio knowledge is limited to mostly headphone audiophile world, and all my assumptions are based on that... an external dac is better due to lesser noise etc...
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a pure preamp might do the trick, without any amplifiers...
Just to clarify, if you buy a preamp, you will also need to purchase an amp to power the speakers.
the adcom amp gfa 7805 should do the trick, i think... the reason for the pre amp without amps is to save power(assumption only)... otherwise i think almost every avr has pre outs now...
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The A31 would cost more than what you have in speakers? Why oh why would someone do this? Waste of money IMO.
what is the price of the a31 anyways? i don't really know... but the speakers won't cost me that cheap(i will be buying them at full price as my country won't have discounts for them). rf7iis and 64iis would cost me more than about 4.5k in us dollars. I don't think a31 is that pricey(kinda like 3k$ maybe?)... anyways, i am not thinking of getting them. I am more interesting in knowing about the preamp selection right now... a pure preamp might do the trick, without any amplifiers... is there much difference in these brands when it comes to sound? and for that matter would a flagship matter much?
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Okay, i now need some advice about the components that i have decided to buy(hopefully within a couple of weeks). I am hoping to find a parasound a31, which may or may not be available. What is a good avr that i can use as a pre amp? If i am using an external amp then i don't really need a flagship model, do i? e.g if i get a marantz sr6009 rather than an sr7009? and which avr will have the best dac quality if i use it as a pre amp? denon/onkyo/yamaha/marantz/pioneer and many others are there but i have the impression that the marantz will have a smoother/warmer sound which might pair well with the klipsch speakers. I don't really know about the sound signatures of these different avrs or which are higher in quality/durability etc.
Also i can get a brand new adcom gfa 7805 amplifier, if i cannot find a halo a31 in my country. Adcom's amp has 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms and is five channel too. It is also much cheaper than parasound amps. Will there be much difference in quality in those too? i have never seen a bad review of parasound though...
bump... any advice?
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Okay, i now need some advice about the components that i have decided to buy(hopefully within a couple of weeks). I am hoping to find a parasound a31, which may or may not be available. What is a good avr that i can use as a pre amp? If i am using an external amp then i don't really need a flagship model, do i? e.g if i get a marantz sr6009 rather than an sr7009? and which avr will have the best dac quality if i use it as a pre amp? denon/onkyo/yamaha/marantz/pioneer and many others are there but i have the impression that the marantz will have a smoother/warmer sound which might pair well with the klipsch speakers. I don't really know about the sound signatures of these different avrs or which are higher in quality/durability etc.
Also i can get a brand new adcom gfa 7805 amplifier, if i cannot find a halo a31 in my country. Adcom's amp has 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms and is five channel too. It is also much cheaper than parasound amps. Will there be much difference in quality in those 2? i have never seen a bad review of parasound though...
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I would not call the HE500 an ENTRY it is VERY Good, used it for over a year and never felt like I was missing something............only reason I have the 800 is 1 came up at a very good price for a lightly used, and selling a few smaller pieces I had laying around paid for it
I already miss the 500, unfortunately my life allows for 1 at the time, Or I would have kept the 500, The new owner is ecstatic with them
i meant entry level hi fi... not mid fi... you can say that it is the cheapest headphone in the hi fi category...
anyways, the hd800 has more bass in its later models, as far as i have heard... it was thinner in bass but later the bass level was increased in the more recent batches...
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I had the HE500 (Just sold them ) and you are correct they need a good deal more power to drive than the HD800................My reason for keeping the 800 had nothing to do with the power use though (my headphone amp ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone) had plenty of power for the HE500's to shine
The HD 800 is just clearer, it offers clarity and resolution in a way that is not fatiguing (Very Hard to do IME) above what the 500's could do, the 800 also offers more neutrality The 2 headphones were designed with different goals in mind Sennheiser set out to build a TOTL can while HiFiMan wanted an easier to drive planer that sounded nice IMHO both succeeded with there goals
While I really liked the HE500's, I love the Sennheisers when I can wrestle them away from the Wife that is
hd800 are twice the price and in another league... he500 is an entry "hifi" headphone with a very pleasing sound and the hd800 are one of the best when it comes to the strengths that you mentioned.... i am also thinking of buying it
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Everyone is trying as nicely as they can to tell you a center is important. I'll just tell you flat out. Why would you wanna spend thousands on an amp that everyone is telling you you DONT NEED and not spend a thousand or less on something everyone is tell you YOU DO NEED!?!? Upgrade-itis? Then skip the RF-7ii and either buy palladiums if you need traditional towers or buy cinema speakers if you can get away with it. Ten times better speakers than ANY reference speakers. And there will be zero upgrade-itis as that is as good of speakers as Klipsch makes. Trust me I am maybe the ONLY person on this forum that has owned them all!
it is not about the money... it is about the center keeping up in the bass department to the capability of the mains... basically i don't want it to be handling much bass. I think that might be solved by putting the mains as large in the av setup and the center as small right?
RF-7II Owners Thread
in Home Theater
Posted · Edited by Destiny
The rear ports are different in that picture... my black ones have two round rear ports... did that bring any sonic change? the binding post setup also looks different... why is that?