Clipped and Shorn

Last night I was encouraged by a friend who was in this band to go out and support some local music. I paid the cover at the door of this upscale restaurant and told them up front, if I couldn't stand the sound which was more than likely, I would be leaving shortly and would want a refund. While the band was setting up, the soundman/DJ was playing music from CDs. The combination of this overly loud music, the crowd noise, and the bad acoustics in the room was already painful. Trying to converse with people was extremely frustrating since I could barely hear myself talking let alone the other person. Since this was hot Latin jazz most people came to dance salsa. When the band itself started, (three trumpets, piano, bass, four percussion, singers) I could tell rather quickly I was not going to make it. It was like being in a cavern with intolerable noise with something like music somewhere in back of the mix of painful sound overload. I left, got the refund, and then stood outside for a few minutes behind a large glass window where I could see the musicians and hear the music filtered through the walls. I watched for a tune or so and greeted the musicians I knew through the window, it was like being on the bandstand but behind glass. When I spoke with other attendees coming and going and asked what they thought of the sound, mostly they had nothing negative to say about it. Many dancers know to come prepared with earplugs! My own hearing seems as good as ever but I have become very sensitive to tolerating such a high level of noise and audio cacphony. Most people who seem to be able to tolerate this painful noise have younger ears. What is it about younger ears that are able and willing to tolerate loud unpleasant noise and think it is a musical experience of some kind? Why are they so undiscriminating? Is this all somehow explainable by the physiology of the mating game? What is the hormonal chemistry here that does this. Has this been studied? I don't think I ever could tolerate this actually. Meanwhile, I found myself creating an "invention". Take a set of ear protectors, the ones that look like headphones that you wear while running dangerously noisy equipment, the ones that subtract 90%+ of the sound. Install electronics. Or simply get a pair of those earphones that block outside distractions, then get a small portable mini amp and microphone. You will look goofy, but you might be able to tolerate the audio with more than 90% removed, and then you offer the microphone to people you might want to talk to in the club. Hopefully they can hear you, or maybe they also would wear a pair of these contraptions and you would speak into their microphone as well. Is someone already making these? Easy enough. Or one can just leave the situation, as I did...... I am wondering to what extent one's evaluation of a home audio system might also be subject to similar physiological factors. Do aging ears always prefer less volume and have less tolerance for "noise" or perceived "imperfections". What age group are the most discriminating audiophiles? Maybe there is no connection, I don't know. By the way, not long ago I went to the Santa Rosa Symphony and had a fantastic experience. All acoustic and phenomenal! It was a revelation. PS. why bands don't just go back to acoustic performance is another topic. -? ? ? (©fini)

I guess what I should be asking is: what things should I be looking for when considering recycling a vintage output transformer for use with SE45? What is this "saturation" deal? What else should I consider? For example, If it has already been pulled how can I determine if it has a 16ohm tap? C&S

Mike, Huh? I don't understand, did I say something....??? I like your idea of exploring some vintage OPTs, I will check that out. Bob Lee also has used some recycled OPTs from amps that were not SE in his #45SE breadboards. I found some online chat concerning dissappointments with Hammond SE output transformers in the high frequency range, so that might not be best since that is where I need them to shine. I did find someone online who does sell the James 6123HS which seem to have a good rep. Meanwhile I can maybe scrounge around for something to experiment with that will be a better bargain. thanks. C&S

Vintage power transformers yes. Not so much on OPT. And certainly not a pair of them. I should check with fini who pulled things out of organ amps. What about organ amp OPTs? Also, Hammond has some very inexpensive SE OPTs, what do you think of those? Were organ amps stereo? or just have one OPT? c7s PS. Actually after a little bit of internet research and I guess the Hammond OPT are NOT the way to go for me. Guess I will try to score James 6123HS unless I stumble onto some vintage approximations.

Is this bigger....? OK, I get it, the forum software automatically sizes the image. Sorry about that. The amazing thing is that one can even find all this esoteric data on the internet, I mean this is a vintage JBL network 3105 and yet you can find charts and graphs for it as well as serious discussions and problem solving etc. If only we could solve world problems and save the planet as easily! Maybe if THAT too was an interesting HOBBY we might make it. -? ? ? (©fini) PS. btw, I do realize the James 6123HS OPT has the 16ohm option, but these particular transformers seem to be less obtainable currently, the James 6113HS obtained from Euphonia Audio does not provide the 16ohm tap but are more available and more economical from them. I am thinking that I may very well try out a couple of the even more economical Hammond 125ESE or similar for a 45/46SE amp dedicated to just the high frequency range in the the triamp, unless I hear of strong recommendations to the contrary.

As mentioned, the James OPT with 2A3 is sounding a bit "thin" in the high frequency range where it is being used in my tri-amp. The JBL 3105 network would rather be seeing 16ohm and the James, as many currently available OPT for SE, typically have only 4 and 8 ohm taps. I am wondering how critical this frequency range is in any OPT, maybe I could just as easily be using an economical Hammond OPT which does have the 16ohm tap. Is the bass and mid range more of an issue with an OPT and could I just as easily use a Hammond without noticing any lack in quality up there in the high frequency range ? I didn't realize the graph would copy so small, the green trace is the crossover with 8ohm dummy load, and the yellow trace is with 16ohm. I think it shows why there is a "thinner sound" at the crossover with the 8ohm and why I am motivated to find an OPT (for the 2A3 SE) that would have a 16 ohm tap.

Mark, With all these nice tubes in the SE amps I have been building, I was wondering if it might be advisable to include a time delay B+ switch like you use in your BB preamps. The 300B SE uses a 5U4 and the 2A3/45 SE uses an old 80 in the rectifier dept. When is it a good idea to use that time delay switch? And, is it simply a component added or are other mods to the power supply necessary as well? -? ? ? (©fini)

Colonel Painful Reality, Thanks for mentioning the thumbs up on the Sowter iron. There was not much online review compared to the Japanese stuff that I could find. Had I not stumbled onto the good deal on the Sowters (which happen to have the 16 ohm tap I was looking for), I was also aware that the Plitron toroidal design had some serious fans and high recommendations, at least with 300B (not sure about their product with 2A3/45 etc.). Just curious, what you think about the Plitron toroidals? Also, what OPT might do the best job with 45/2A3 for the high frequency range (eg. 2kHz and up)? -? ? ? (©fini)

Last year I built a low cost diy 45/2A3 SRPP (6SL7s front end) stereo SE amp using James OPT from Euphonia Audio (in all liklihood a similar circuit to the one being discussed here ---possibly, but with different output tubes and rectifier--guess we would need to see the schematic to be sure. I think they (the James) were about $150 a pair. They sound pretty good to my ears and I was enjoying these amps for most of a year with the diy Valencias (at moderated volumes). The only OPTs comparable in price are Transcendar (US made/sold on eBay) or Hammonds, but the James, from most accounts are supposed to sound better. Recently I put together 300B monoblocks using a pair of unused Sowter transformers (eBay bargain/compared to new from UK) but giving me 8/16 ohm taps--16 needed for Altec 515C and/or the Valencias (man these Sowters are hefty!). After some fiddling with tubes to get better bass, and some break-in period, this project (the JElabs 300B dx schematic) also sounded quite good (I can roll 27,37,56, or 76 tubes as well as different 6J5. Currently I am using 56 and some Sylvania 6J5GT (metal base) to desirable effect with EH 300B (hopefully soon to be replaced with Sohphia). Both of these amps are now being used in my multi amp system with the 300b driving Altec 515C (very sweet, and very excellent) and the 2A3 driving the (511/802drivers+JBL2404H). The James with the 2A3 only has 4/8ohm taps. I need 16 ohm for the JBL crossover and horn, so this is still sounding a bit "thin" to my ears (16ohm connected to my 8ohm taps...is this so wrong???) , but the amp on its own sounded decent driving my diy Valencia speakers (also 16ohm connected to 8ohm taps). Both of these SET amps sound better to my ears in the tri-amp where I have 300 watts of SS (Carver) in the bottom below 200Hz, than they did driving horn 3-way systems on their own. Sound was a tad too bright for me at higher volume. This is just my ears here with what speakers I have on hand. I like to turn the volume up, and I have better results with both the MarkIIIs(pp6550) and/or my proto pCats (ppKT66) with the Valencia or OBs. But let me say, the SE amps with the right speakers are a revelation, and they have transformed my tri-amp system, especially where vocals are concerned! The 300B SE+Sowter OPT with the Altec 515C is pretty pretty pretty....darn good --now the heart of my tri-amp system. I have concluded that it might be a bit tricky finding the right SE circuit and design to be the single amp for a horn system like most Klipsch. Obviously there are some great SE amps out there and particular components (OPT, caps, tubes, etc.) that can do this, I am just not sure one can count on just any SE circuit or design to fulfill this role apriori and is why Bob Lee, for example, is a dedicated breadboarder, trying and experimenting all the time in order to optimize the results heard on his beautiful Klipschorns. Bob has told me that some old Webster OPT he found in a vintage 2A3 organ amp, for example, are far superior to the Transcendar OPT he compared it to. I am thinking SE amps may be somewhat more "specific" than PP amps when it comes to the predictibility of sound with the speakers you might have. Best to get recommendations from those who have already tried and tested and experimented and spent lots of moolah in the process of pairing SE amps with particular speaker systems. I just went for what information was freely shared online as far as schematics, eg. the JE labs designs (check out his site!), and also for using magic old radio tubes. I think there are many more schematics, and many which are not so freely shared online. Also I just went for less esoteric and less costly OPTs, it is possible to go nuts in that department. Fortunately I have enough systems that I could consequently find where best to use the amps as built first time out, otherwise I might have to start swapping OPTs and parts and circuit operating points, and at this time, that is not exactly my hobby, yet. Mostly I am proud of the fact that these things work after I built them....nothing too creative, just following the online schematics and a few pointers... (I am now pretty good at punching holes in a metal chassis....) -? ? ? (©fini)

Did you mean Preamp? The 26 can be a real hummer..... http://www.vt52.com/ What specific amplifier? Are you referring to a 'commercial' offering or a diy project? Can you post a schematic? C&s

I witnessed a demo transferring original tape to the lathe and comparing playback fidelity. Playing tape back directly from the ampex was best and the reference standard. The 33.3 was good, the 45 was great, and the 78 was spectacular. Unfortunately 78 is not practical nor physically secure for LP, although this format did exist briefly with one company. c&s

Certain labels were known for excellent recording engineering. The Contemporary label is a good example. Big labels, like Capitol, did a good job. I do not know the behind the scenes answer to your question, but just like artists and tube manufacturing there are many subjective and objective factors giving rise to variables. I have been disappointed in some Blue Note recordings, so, even with Rudy Van Gelder behind the scene, sometimes it did not go well, a couple of Art Blakey 60s sessions come to mind. And, it is not just me, Michael Cuscuna states: " Although all of the sessions in this collection were recorded by the extraordinary Rudy Van Gelder, there are sonic problems on two sessions." Just like in the old days when an LP liner notes would have the recording specs and microphones used, wouldn't it be cool if the record today had a sonic evaluation included in the notes. I know I usually appreciate "apologies" or "heads up" on recordings that warn you that there are sonic compromises "and we couldn't do anything about it". At least I then know not to keep looking for dog-doo on my own shoes....so to speak.....its them not me ....ok..... they don't do this in reality because they are partly crooks it would seem...... c&s

Exactly. and is why reissues, at best, are limited by the parameters and excellence of the original recording situation. In my experience, a relatively small percentage of jazz recordings are truly exceptional in this regard, although most small group recordings are pretty good, and way fewer examples when it comes to latin music. c&s

The Marty Paich "New York Scene" on Discovery is a "reissue" of "The Broadway Bit" on Warner Bros. The Discovery LP had been a sleeper for quite awhile and could be found for as little as $10, but now it too has been "discovered". Its stock is rising. You were lucky to find a sealed copy for $50. I think the Discovery LP sounds every bit as good or even better than the issue on WB, which I originally found in a thrift store, where fini too has found it more than once. Discovery is an excellent label, I have many, including all the early Clare Fischer and Poncho Sanchez. The presence of Art Pepper is why it is so sought after, but I have grown to like several other Marty Paich LPs, with or without AP.

Given the insane prices for these PR tape it makes way more sense to me to purchase a good microphone and start hiring some musicians to come over and make some music. Then you will have a collection of 1st generation recordings of interest and will be supporting local talent. The variety of music available either in vintage or those new tapes seems rather limited to me (at least in my areas of interest). I happened onto what appears to be a very nice Teac X-1000 (someone's thrift store find I received in trade). I need to figure out how to use it. Is this a good one? Was looking for something to do with it. I am serious about the idea of recording one's own music, just to have interesting audiophile stuff to play back and enjoy. I looked at those Tape Project offerings, only a couple of which I might be interested in, and they are over $300 each! You know what kind of fantastic music you can get by hiring some local geniuses for the price of one PR tape, and have a nice little party with the machine running? Just tell them that you will not issue the material without a further "contract" for remuneration. Just for home use. There are some amazing microphones available quite reasonably these days. I see not point collecting a limited handful of titles for such insane money when there are so many talented musicians everywhere who would be thrilled to get $50 each to have some fun at a recording party. It would be a fun hobby too and you would learn some basics about recording, and even if you recorded primitively it would probably be great and real. Just an idea and my two cents. -? ? ? (©fini) c&s an afterthought: it just occurred to me that this idea lends itself more to the kind of music I like and the abundance of musicians in my area. Obviously this idea would not provide things like the complete Rolling Stones. There are a lot of bluegrass and jazz musicians around here and that is more like what I was thinking about. also, musicians might be paranoid that the recording might be exploited and they might not work such little money if a recording is being made....so there are some things to work out with this idea.....

Thank goodness for eBay and even Amazon for saving us from not having to be at the mercy of the old record shop or used book shop where the guy offers you $15 for a box of albums and turns around and sells them for their true value. I figure I can unload stuff when I need to, as I have in the past and even recently, and meanwhile many things while still on the shelf here are a good store of value. A lot of thrift store classical, which I sometime enjoy, will go back there or to a local library sale, thus supporting a good cause. The things of real valule I will hopefully unload in the future when I, or my proxy, can still get to the post office. Last time I sold stuff on eBay I came to realize that having an eBay store is the way to go because you can leave something there with a BIN price, waiting for the person who really wants it. This same approach of eBay store or regular auction goes for books, and the amps and speakers, when the time comes. Meanwhile a person can also consider bequeathing the things if you can think of a good home for them. I think the only "collectors" who accumlate for no good reason other than "possession for its own sake" are magpies and crows, the rest of humans other than the truly insane accumulate for "reasons" and most likely can unload the same stuff to others who will in the future also relate to those "reasons" and place value on it. In fact some people collect things not for any reason other than simply to resell hopefully for a profit. Its just business, but it resembles "collecting" in some respects. I like to think the only thing I really collect is interest and equity, one way or another, meanwhile I enjoy my library and archives and quality listening equipment, and plan to liquidate a few minutes before I kick the bucket. I too tend to upgrade favorite recordings and can always sell or trade the lesser pressings and often do, but mostly I sell things that I cannot relate to anymore or can be better replaced by new quality reissues, eg. sell Bobby Paunetto on Mardi Gras for $1000+ to some Japanese "collector" who HAS to have an original pressing, and replace it with a perfectly good reissue (vinyl or CD) which sounds every bit as good or better than that used original for only <$12.00. The original vinyl sold for $7 if one was on the Casalegre mailing list, or if you lived in NY at the time which I did not. Maybe that is a good definition of a collector, eg. one who must have an original pressing regardless of actual sound quality. Other than that the sickness is simply being an audiophile type and not a "collector", eg. when there might actually be some ("good") sonic reason, however subtle, to have the original pressing at 10,000% more cost, or at least the best possible pressing, like you say. I know how that is, especially when it is a recording that is musically very important to you. So many reissues have been crap. Good that they are making good ones now. I am perfectly happy with the reasonably priced CD of "Presenting Jackie Mclean" nice quality Japanese production of that early if not first recording by him. I have plenty other original Jackie on vinyl, don't have to have everything on vinyl, especially if I missed latching onto something in its day for normal prices which is the case for that particular record, and thank goodness I did do plenty of that, obtaining and finding records since mid 50s and dragging them around with me ever since. Too me, cool is happening to have acquired some of those now 3 and 4 figure LPs in the old days when they were mostly under $10.... It has never been about collecting for me, just wanted the music (however I am tickled by this default appreciation in value, nothing wrong with that). I have never paid anywhere near even a 3 figure price for any LP ever.(closest I came was grabbing a NM 10" Savoy of Mambo Hambro. important to my specialty area of expertise, and pretty difficult to obtain and not available in any other form and very unlikely to ever be reissued, similar but not even as obscure as the 10" LP of "Concerto in Percussion" on SMC which is arguably the very first Latin Jazz masterpiece. Its nice to seek out things obscure enough to NOT have ridiculous "collector" prices, but even way more scarce and often more historically/or musically important, mostly because hardly anyone knows about them..........yet. -? ? ? (©fini)

If you don't play them, they were mistakes, so yes, get rid of them. Assuming you will never want to play them in the future for any reason. If you "outgrow" them, and know they have no listening value to you, get rid of them or sell them or whatever. When do you get rid of the ones you do listen to? Are you planning to be dead next week or next year or in 20 years. Tough call. -? ? ? (©fini) I'm no authority - - but for me, collecting involves obsession to possess, for its own sake, well beyond the utility of an item. If I am going to add more items to my stash, I want high utility and low obsession factor. I have a couple times fallen into collecting, and I simply don't like the vibe of it. Can a guy listen to a million records? I dunno, probably not though. I've seen guys with 20 or 30 old receivers piled up - unconnected. Seems like an obsession to me. I'll get this record and play the grooves off it. When it's bitten the radish, I'll toss it out. I am ruthless about weeding out things. Keeps me light on my feet! I so agree. My collecting days are over. If I won't play it, I'm going to sell it. When you get to a certain age, you start thinking about what happens to your "stuff" if something hapens to you. I don't want my wife or kids dealing with a million records that are way more valuable than they know. The gear is bad enough! "Maybe, defn: if a person pays more than $16.95 for an album, she is a collector." I certainly hope not! I've paid way more for most of mine but I PLAY them. That's the difference. Maybe, defn: If a person buys records, pays more than $16.95 for each but doesn't play them, she is a collector.

"Can a guy listen to a million records?" Most people who buy records do listen to them. That guy who had millions of them for sale on eBay many SS, admitted he was collecting because it was some kind of preservation archive and wanted to hand it over to someone else to continue the preservation. He mentioned having duplicate copies, so some could be sold to help pay for the archive. I have more records than you, have had many since the 50s, and have listened to them many times over the years and have learned much, including developing my own musical style so to speak. If a musical point comes up and I need to go back to the recording, I can usually find it in a matter of minutes. Over the years one continues to discover new things about the recordings one has owned for many years. So, the simple answer to the question, is yes, a guy with a million records probably can and does listen to them, if nothing else, at first when he obtains them. Records simply are not something to collect for its own sake like objects to look at in a display cabinet, I do not know anyone who does that. The socalled "collectible" records most likely became that because of the significance of the music in one form or another. Often times a high priced rare recording is used to produce a reissue when no other form is extant, and is the very reason for its high value. I sold a rare 78 of Moondog on Brunswick for a friend and was surprised at what it brought, a year later, it was used to make a reissue on a new compilation. Many people behind the scenes who are able to bring music forth for the consumer are involved in these details. Still not "collecting". Bob Dylan "borrowed" someone's rare collection in his formative years to invent what he did, at least that is how the story goes. Good thing his friend had those historical recordings in his collection. I agree, if the porcelain tea cup collector, takes them out of the display cabinet and has a tea party regularly, more power to them in my book. If you have a good needle, no need to worry about wearing out those LPs. You will never listen to them that much. I still listen to LPs I have been playing since 1956, even with questionable needles. Now I use a good styli tho. -? ? ? (©fini)

I would love to own a coffee table book of your collection to add to my book collection about collections. -? ? ? (©fini)

Good going, they are getting harder to find. You are getting some record sleuthing chops! The hunt is part of the fun. This issue sounds every bit as good or better than the highly sought after collectible and now expensive original. -? ? ? (©fini) about collecting. I stand corrected. I changed it to "find". I know what you mean. Collecting per say is another type of obsession. I do not consider myself a "collector" in that sense either. I really wanted and needed to hear every thing Bird played. That is not collecting! I have always used recordings for enjoyment, history, and learning music as well as writing about music, music history, and musicology. When a guy pays more for the sexy cover than the person wanting the music, I sometimes suspect there is a collector involved, but then again...I am not so sure. I am glad I bought "Mambo For Cats" years ago because I needed the music (it was the only place a certain piece was issued) and now it is a very expensive collectible because of the Jim Flora cover and commands good money even when the LP inside is missing. Are all "art collectors" considered "Collectors"? If one has art on the wall is that person necessarily a collector, what is another better word for this? For that matter how does one actually define a collector. Stamp and coin collectors seem to be collectors, especially if it goes contrary to good "investment", which it mostly does not, given enough time. Record collectors....I don't know, maybe if they don't really care about the music....like that guy selling the bezillion records mostly still sealed.....he was a collector, also since he will take a big loss on that investment. Behind every "collector" is a person who has a good reason for possession of said stuff. (Like needing or wanting an audiophile issue of something readily available in several less expensive versions for the purpose of demonstrating equipment ....no, not a "collector", no...... me either. Maybe, defn: if a person pays more than $16.95 for an album, she is a collector. 2) Another possible definition: If one has to do something, anything, other than simply shooting fish in a barrel to obtain something special in a category in which other type examples are already owned, that "effort" can be called "collecting". If you need to make any effort to house the stuff, shelves, cabinets, etc. you might be a collector. If you need to list it or catalogue it, it is a collection. -? ? ? (©fini)

Another good one to sneak out is a nos copy if you can find it, of "Marty Paich Big Band -The New York Scene" on Discovery. You already know and like (and have on cd) this material but few realize that it has been reissued on this exceptionally fine sounding vinyl. If you want to go even further into arranged and large ensemble, there are some very nice things by Claus Ogerman (one with Bill Evans on electric piano which I like) and Lalo Schifrin, among others, to explore. You can also find recordings of jazz influenced movie scores, many are classics. Even Les Baxter made some jazzy albums as well as exotic/latin influenced. Most of this type of material is very well recorded on major labels. Historically, there is Sauter/Finegan, but most is on collectible LPs. For that matter, have you explored Count Basie, especially the earlier work....oh, I forgot, not necessarily hifi. When I listen to jazz on fm radio I hear tons of stuff, lots of new stuff, that is great and that you would like, but most is new to me. Do you get any good jazz shows up your way, or online....could be a great way to find out about material you would love to then own. -? ? ? (©fini)

Mark, That was the 45 twofer LP I brought to that Bay Area get together that you came down for, but unfortunately as you remember we had no turntable set up that time at Bob's. It is great sounding for sure especially at the 45 speed. And, you will get good practice changing your TT belt. The regular original LP always sounded very nice too. -? ? ? (©fini)

When it comes to turntable isolation overkill is good. Then you can turn that bass up all you want, shake the house, but not the table. I love it. ---⁄€‹›??‡°·& ÆÚÒ?ÔÓ?ÏÎÍ

That whole double lucite affair seems to be sitting on some kind of additional isolation platform at the bottom. Maybe there are racquet balls underneath in there somewhere. I just don't know. Would it be possible to gold plate my racquet balls? It's a good distance from four racquet balls and a slab, ain't it?

fini, Staying warm and reinventing myself as usual. How 'bout you? -- ? ? ?