Clipped and Shorn

jazman, tnx for the quick answers. I did follow the exciting thread regarding your recent Moondoggie acquisition and fantasized that someday it might be me. Which brings up another possible scenario, has there ever been an eBay bidding war between forum members, not a pleasant thought. -cowabunga and stoked

"That's funny, I am personally all for magic, superstition, and "cold-fusion" explanations for garden variety phenomena." I do not think that the two views need to be so mutually exclusive. Yesterday's magic etc. is today's science. Today's magic gives impetus to the formation of tomorrow's science and on it goes. The now forgotten "gestalt psychologists" made a noble attempt to codify and measure perception and its resultant cognitive experience and their approach has ever since allowed me to reconcile the seeming immiscibility of "magic" and science, and other similar supposed unreconcilables. All of which is to also say there certainly is no need to apologize for the "debate" especially since many have learned so much in the process. I hope my drooling over all those pictured SET amps does not cause problems in the shorts that may happen. . -go figure and go ground This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 02-07-2002 at 02:44 PM

I think Yoda AND Obi-Wan-Kenobi both have a lot to offer here and I am gaining a perspective that is greater than the sum of the parts, although I barely understand some of the details {define 'bias' as it relates to audiophile concerns please} and feel like young Luke just quietly taking it all in hoping I will be able to put some small part of it to use, at least when I go shopping back on Earth. It is true that the metaphor about tubes burning out like candles did make me wince momentarily since I just went to great length to replace every darn incandescent light bulb on the property with one of those screwy flourescents. Conserving energy on this one hand and dreaming of heating my house with SET monoblocks on the other is a fun contradiction. Thinking about the prices I have seen for choice NOS tubes on eBay etc. and knowing how "critical" the tube choice can be as evidenced by comments on this forum, I am thinking ahead to the prospect of continually burning out and replacing tubes at $200 a pop. So it is indeed important that I have a realistic sense of exactly what the practical truth is here. "One" more silly question, por favor: For phono use only can one go directly to an amp from a phono stage OR must the phono stage first go to the line stage and then to the amp? Eg. is the line stage only necessary if one is using inputs other than phono (CD, Tuner, Video audio, etc.)? The big question for me, ultimately only answerable by some serious auditions, is whether this trade off in energy use, expense, etc. is justified by a significant and ultimately irresistible improvement {transformation even} of the listening experience. I am most tempted to make an upgrade that will maximize this possibility, that is to say, I want the upgrade to be as dramatic as possible. So if I am currently using a Dynakit-70 tube amp, then I probably don't want to just get a slightly better push-pull amp, but rather go for something extroaordinarily different. That is why I have been curious about SET, monoblocks, and other terms {equipment} which are relatively exotic to me at this point. This desired dramatic quantum leap into greatly improved sound at the same time must make the most bang -for-buck sense, that is I will prefer to "doubt" that it can only be done by having a turntable that costs 30K and cables that cost 2K etc. In other words I am being practical while at the same time being willing to start down the "high-end" path with open ears and cautious pocket book (the eBay Cornwall frenzy hopefully was the exception rather than the rule). -henrys and mhos

Great information here. Thanks. I have copied the whole thread to an ongoing file of my own since I do not know how long these threads ultimately stay online. Now that I think of it I should click around this site and see if I can stumble onto the archives somewhere. -ikobodded and craned

"If you want to cough up some serious bux and not have to do any mods and just sit back and LISTEN to the glorious EL34 - then of course lay down your dough for the Marantz 8b and just be done with amps for a long time. " There are at least 3 of these up on eBay at the moment. Judging from all the parts, manuals, etc. also being auctioned, this must be a unit that has a cult following of individuals who keep them going. Anyone else feel as strongly about them as mdeneen? Is this a push-pull system? -pushed and pulled

Ray, Thanks for the book reference. {There are books available that provide a glossary of terms. Check Amazon for books by Robert Harley, and it'll point out others to you as well.} I did check it out. The Complete Guide to High-End Audio Robert Harley, Keith Jarrett; Do you think this book goes into things as well as the great responses here in this forum? BTW what is Keith Jarrett's role in this? -nipped and budded

While we are starting from the ground up with terminology, I just realized I do not understand the term "Class A" from an electronics and/or an audio standpoint. How many "classes" are there? -stripped and honored

What particularly would be some desirable used items to be looking for in this category (tube preamps with onboard phono stage), assuming I am building toward some good tube amp(s) further down the line, possibly even SET? Also some the things listed at the Antique Sound Lab that I saw mentioned here look pretty cool. http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html -tripped and worn

mobile, I have the Cornwalls in my living room about 11' apart. I have them either hooked up to the Dynakit-70 with a little solid state Halfer preamp, or for every day use with a big Carver receiver and a speaker switcher which allows me to have speakers all over the house so the music follows me around. When I want to do serious listening I hook up the tube amp and sit in front of the speakers. My dream is to gradually upgrade to some kind of higher-end tube system for this more ideal listening situation. I have noticed a slight warming up of the Cornwalls even with the dynakit tube amp over the Carver solid state behemoth. I love how beautiful some of those great tube amps look and I can only imagine how they might sound. As a yute I was obsessed with tubes, I know I will be going down this road sooner or later with audio in the house. I have an extensive vinyl collection mostly jazz and some classical. I just happen to notice that some percussion I was listening to the other day through the Cornwalls ("Autumn Leaves" from Cal Tjader's "Mambo With Tjader sounded a tad on the scratchy side and wondered what could be done about it. The track was the last track on the side, so that may have something to do with it , also the guiro which is a scratchy instrument was up in the original mix of the recording anyway. I noticed that fiddling with the tone control on the preamp didn't really fix the slight harshness of this particular sound. Normally I do not even use the "tone control" aspect of the preamp since it can be switched out of the circuit. So I started wondering about equalizers and/or retrofitting separate tone controls for the components within the Cornwalls. I do have the impression, mostly from you, that the SET approach could mellow out this phenomenon also, however, I am nowhere near that point yet. btw, how does one know how well the components in the Cornwall are "balanced"? Sometimes it seems that the mid range horn might be a bit predominant. Mostly I love the sound and am really happy with them. The Cornwalls may just be the first step in putting together an informed higher-end system. I am enjoying this learning curve. -heptoad and solder scars

Has anyone modified a Cornwall so that each of the components inside can be controlled seperately to adjust balance? What can of worms have I opened with this idea? Isn't there something called L-pads or something like that which could be retrofitted into the system? I was thinking that maybe some of the brightness coming from the midrange horn could be modified that way. What do I know? -Nipped and Scorned

Thanks guys for the ground up explanations. Much appreciated. I did indeed read through all the posts and will definitely be reading through them again. There really are a lot of things to mull over, especially before committing one's ducats in the direction of one's hopefully informed preferences. Learning from others is a great shortcut and the internet has revolutionized this process. To back up to one of the points that came up here. Since I use a magnetic cartridge, do I have to make sure that my cholce of a tube pre-amp has the correct phono stage or do I have to add a seperate phono stage component to the preamp? Please clarify this. -Zipped and Formed

I am gradually catching on to the terminology and have deduced that "Integrated" must mean that both channels are on the same amp chasis wheareas monoblocks are on two seperate {what is the plural of chasis ?} . Why does one choose one over the other? What are the consequent differences audio wise? Is there an online glossary or handbook of basic definitions for all this audiophile terminology including common abbreviations. I am, of course, learning fast as I peruse the posts on this forum, but had to have fini set me straight about the DIY brand of products, I thought it was one of the biggest companies. duh. -Kept and Shelved

Wish I hadn't blown my wad on mint old Cornwalls when I could have had something like those beasts , shoot, if had only known. Those are the kind of speakers wive's really like right? Anyone ever tried mounting speakers in old wooden salad bowls? -kicked and shaken

fini, Count me in on the road trip to tubeland. I just looked in the Sonoma county phone book and it looks like the one high-end shop Santa Rosa is no longer listed. I think it was called something like Sound Masters {?}. As far as our hooked up Cornwalls go, I'll show you mine if you show me yours. I think I mentioned to you that I found an old Fisher receiver in the trash. It has tubes (push pull KT-66 etc. ). I have yet to fix the power cord (needs a plug), after reading about your super bargain finds maybe today is the day to plug this in and see what happens. Any precautions or suggestions? Don't worry, it is nowhere near the Cornwalls. I'll hook it up to some thrift store specials I have here. -Pickled and Snockered This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 02-02-2002 at 04:11 PM

MM, I just had two Cornwalls shipped to me through an eBay auction. The seller knew what he was doing. He listed a fixed price of $70 to ship both items, he picked up the difference. He had to ship with an independent freight company of which there are many. The boxes would not conform to UPS or USPS guidelines. They were both carefully double boxed with cardboard and lots of bubble wrap in between and extra cardboard 'bumpers' on the speaker edges. It took a bit of time just unwrapping them but they were absolutely unscathed in the shipping. Many of these freight companies will come out to a residential address, others will give you a call and you pick up at a nearby terminal. I believe the name of the freight company he used was Emory. Another option can be found here: http://www.cratersandfreighters.com/ -Bill

"Allright - not exactly "dead" - but the relevance of vinyl is practically nil in terms of mainstream music format. Vinyl survives today as: A: DJ material for mixes, house music, etc. B: Nostalgia item for folks like yourselves." Besides nostalgia I find a most compelling reason to still be involved with LPs (as well as some 78s) is to have access to material that never made it beyond the LP and in many cases never made it beyond the 78. Although lots of things have been reissued there is much important music that has not, and may not ever. Admittedly this is a somewhat esoteric area, but important to the musician, historian, and/or composer or arranger. Nothing like being able to arrange a new version of some great material that no one has heard for 65 years. Incidentally original 78s can sound better than the old transfers to LPs and certainly better than most transfer to CD that are on the market. Another reason is that many recordings just sound astoundingly better on the original vinyl than the CDs, with some exceptions. -Bill

I just got into the swing of things when I hooked up the Corwalls to my Dynakit-70 and dug out my original Prestige LP of Miles' "Man I Love", the legendary session with Monk and Milt Jackson etc.. I am really happy I upgraded to the Cornwalls, this LP never sounded so good. I was amazed that the years of owning this LP and the various incarnations of Styli playing it hadn't destroyed its ability to dig out such rich sounds. There really is something to be said for that old thick deep groove (whatever that means) vinyl. I figure those tubes are also helping warm up the house on these cold winter evenings. For now this basic system is just fine and I can look forward to maybe further upgrades down the road. There are a lot of old LPs to go back to now. -ClipSh

High-end power cables, what is the theory on these?: eg.: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1315603961 -ClipSh

The listening room is not large, about 13' X 17'. It is well carpeted and has alot of stuff in and around it. This room spills (flows) into several other rooms, but the speakers are set about 11 feet apart and face the 17" dimension. I listen to jazz, classical, and latin music mostly. Counting everything including alot of thrift store opera bargains and default junk, I probably have nearly 10k in LPs. Most of the high quality vinyl is in the jazz and classical areas. I have alot of latin recordings in vinyl and even rare 78s, however the quality of these recordings is not as high, and my expectations of those recordings is not so much for high-end audio experience as much as for its musical information. {Latin recordings contain alot of percussion and highs as well as cool bass} I would retain my alternate systems for everyday use, but am curious about hearing the quality vinyl that I possess (eg. many Mosaic jazz sets and other quality jazz and classical recordings) in the most musical reproduction. Also I grew up in the tube era and have a strong connection to that era mostly via the high-end systems of friends whose parents could afford it at that time. I have been digging the subtle differences I hear on the Conwalls with the Dynakit-70 tube amp compared to a Carver solid state receiver I have also hooked up. This has spurred my interest in going further with tubes along with this forum and general internet searching which has also kindled some curiosity. 1. How do monoblocks compare to an amp that is all on one chasis. (sorry if I don't know all the terminology yet). 2. If I just want to play vinyl , do I just need a pre-amp or is there something else (I heard the term "Phono stage" or something. Is that same as "preamplifier"? Actually maybe further down the line I would want to also play CDs through the tube amp. 3. I do understand, from a little reading, why the Single Ended Triode might be more "musical" and am curious about hearing this. I am open to suggestions, and best bang for the buck ideas for amps and preamp (or do I even need a pre amp if I am only playing vinyl....eg. is this "phono stage thing " an alternative to a pre amp if you only need it for phono? -Clicked and Scored

Having just connected these "as original" Cornwalls to an old Dynakit-70, I could not help notice the little screw posts on the backs of these units for connecting the speakers to the amplifier. I was immediately brought back to (not sure that I ever left) the era in which these things were made, an era which clearly assumed you hooked these up with nothing much bigger than 16 guage wire. Now that I think of it, I think I was asleep when it was determined that one needed whomongoose wire or special cables that could cost up to two grand for an 8' pair.... I guess my point is mostly, what do you do about these terminals which suggest using a more basic wire. How many Cornwall users out there have retrofitted or generally altered their equipment to accomodate larger terminal systems which these larger cable systems would need? Exactly at what point in time did high-end audio equipment anticipate these "new" cables in their design as compared to this vintage equipment (I am using) which clearly comes from an era which apparently placed little or no importance on large guage or special cable designs? If I were to braid a cable together as suggested in that article, would I have to retrofit the Cornwalls and the older amp to accomodate the terminals or can you get "spades" which will connect them. How can you solder together 27 pairs of wire onto a connector small enough to screw onto the Cornwall's original terminal, or for that matter to the similar terminals on older amps? -Ripped and vanWinkled

Anyone know about kits from Audio Electronics? http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/ click on "products" , then under "kits". Seems to be fairly reasonable prices and they look cool, anyone have experience with the sound? Should I start a new thread with this? Why not? -Cleaned and Shaven

fininif, Yes! "Organ Favorites" , good choice. Is Big Ed still with us or did that cholesterol finally catch up with him? You definitely have some collectible sides there! Didn't you also have a very rare Nutcracker Suite or something more suitable? Nothing like good old vinyl with big LP covers and liner notes. The comparison will be more rigorous if we both play the same record. I will play "The Broadway Bit" by Marty Paich at my house and you can play the equivalent alterednate at yours. Could you possibly scan and post some of those album covers? ....{yah right}. If only..... -Collapsed and Seared

Ed, I have them about 11 feet apart and angled toward my ears, so if I am about 10-11 feet back it sounds perfect, kind of an equilateral triangle. I think that is what you mean by toed in, no? They are sounding great with this Dynakit-70 tube amp. I am starting to appreciate these differences between amps. I am thinking ahead to upgrading to a tube preamp and amp. Anyone have any experience with gear from Audio Electronics? http://www.audioelectronicsupply.com/ -Sippin' @ Bell's

Andy, Thanks for the idea, only thing is, at this point I need a bigger house. I have got to unload some of my stuff. The Cornwalls are more or less in the corners and there really is no room to move them around any way. Because of all the stuff in this carpeted room the sound is pretty dead, which I have heard is a good thing. The sound is great and the Cornwalls are a spectacular improvement, it is just that I had nowhere else to use the Altecs, so the Corwalls are sitting on top of them and the additional sound, if I choose to switch them both on, just seems to add that much more body. Sometimes I practice along with recordings and that is whyI like a big sound, so I am in balance with it if I play along. I am mostly a percussionist and am in the process taking on the vibraphone. {I do have a speed control on the turntable so I can be in tune with the sometimes apparent altered tunings of recordings....I am not sure why this is, but some recordings are off by half or as much as a whole tone so when you go to the piano to find out what key it is you realize that the recording has been somehow altered and my perfectly tuned piano does not align with the recording. Nothing sounds better on the Cornwalls than a tenor sax, so I will dig up those Sonny Rollins records (as per mobile's raves) and some John Coltrane. When fini comes over for my side of our mutual demos I will put on a great old Mercury LP of Prokofiev's Sythian Suite and relive 50s HiFi madness. -hipped and squared

The Cornwalls arrived and it took most of the day to unpack them and set them up. At this point they are simply hooked up to the old system I was using which uses an NAD receiver which has served me reliably for many years now. Later today I will connect them to the Dynakit tube amp and also try another larger Carver receiver. The dream is to eventually get some great tube amps and a tube preamp etc. One first impression, and something I also noticed when I aditioned the pair in Berkeley is that my ears tend to like even a bit more in the bass. This may be from years playing music with another PA system that I use with a midi set up, in which the bass really punches out. With this in mind I switched on my old classic Altec 15'" speakers that I was using in my stereo set up previously. The combination of the Corwalls and the Altecs playing simultaneously seem to be perfect. I realize I am not a purist and I may be doing a big no-no here, but it sure sounds fine to my ears. I can try either combination with my switcher so it is easy to compare and demonstrate. I will try this with a variety of music today and also see how it is with the other amps. Having the two 15" speakers on each side seems to balance the predominant higher end of the two horns in the Cornwalls. Also at this point I am using the same speaker wire I had before, so that is another area that may get tweaked later. -Flipped and Reborn