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ScooterMcTavish

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  1. Haha, a Cerwin Vega thread from eight months ago turns into an amplifier debate. Amps all sound the same? For your reading pleasure: Vintage vs. New I find this the most fascinating part of the hobby - we can measure things all we want, but there are parts of the sound we can't quantify, like odd-vs-even order harmonics. Back to Klipsch vs. CV: I have owned numerous sets of both - in CVs I have has A-123, HED U-123, D5, and VS120. In Klipsch I have owned RB-61, RB-61ii, Synergy F3, and Forte. The Forte remain, and none of the rest do. To me, the biggest problem I have had with CVs is a lack of sharpness on the top end. Although the tweeters were capable of generating plenty of sound, they lacked the crispness that my Fortes have (acknowledged they do have Crites titanium diaphragms). The midranges were also somewhat offensive, and needed a good EQ to tame down their "shouty" tendencies. And, for whatever odd reason, they never seemed to generate bass in the way their woofer size and design suggested they should. When EQd, you could get them to thump, but tonality of bass was lost. Unfortunately, as a teenager in the 1980s, I saw CVs as the pinnacle of rock speakers, and continue(d) to try and find the "right" set to have fun with in my system. No success as of yet, and my odds of acquiring more CVs is rather slim. From the Klipsch side, the F-3 had absolutely superb bass, that was effortless to generate. However, they also were a disappointment with a recessed midrange, and beamy treble. Not sure if it was a feature of the aluminum domes, or the horn design, but the treble did lack some focus compared to better domed-tweeter speakers I own. The RB-61s were both better, but were also "missing" something from the midrange, though the titanium tweeter certainly was an improvement over the aluminum. The Forte have stayed and earned a permanent place in my tube system, as they generate excellent tuneful bass, and have superb dynamics. Although the CVs also had great dynamics, they were sloppy where the Forte are crisp, and shouty where the Forte are present. In short (and rather humorously), the Klipsch do appear to share some design philosophies with CV, but these philosophies were executed to a much higher degree. As it relates to the new CVs, I have heard two of the CLS models, and the treble and midrange were improved over the models I listed above. That being stated, I did feel they trended towards stridency, and I was somewhat amazed at how little bass they generated without any additional bass compensation (i.e. loudness, bass control, or EQ).
  2. Damndest thing. I was listening to the Fortes as I work from home today, and thought I'd hook up my B&W 683 (a very nice speaker) for a change of pace. Lasted about a hour. Tube amp was turned off and cooled over lunch, and the Forte were hooked back up. Going from a speaker I described as "harsh" and "tinnitus inducing" at the demo, to a preferred speaker in my music room. Who woulda thunk it. WIth the dynamics of the Fortes, they make the sedate B&W sound, well, kinda' dull. Should note though, that the Fortes do not suffer poor recordings in a polite way. A few tracks have certainly played (200 CD jukebox on random) where I'd certainly prefer the B&W. That being said, one can certainly her the difference between 12" passive radiated bass and 2 x 6.5" ported bass. It has weight.
  3. I actually found corner-loading smoothed out my Fortes quite a bit. Any stridency disappeared from the sound. The negative was that the wide soundstage collapsed. I have them now about 4 inches from the corners, toed in slightly, and it seems to be the best of both worlds. Each are aimed just outside of my easy chair.
  4. I can try the speakers more toed in again, but the beaminess to me is more a texture of the sound vs. any response curve fault with it. I would also question blaming this on the upstream electronics, as this setup sounds sublime with both a set of Monitor Audio Silver 6 and B&W 683. Setup is a Jolida tube amp in bypass mode using KT-88 output tubes, and a Proton preamp. This system generates rich and smooth sound. As a listener, I am extremely mid-sensitive, and this is why I am now on my fourth set of Klipsch. The past models I have had delivered good full-spectrum sound, but the delivery "style" of the horn tweeters just added an unnatural texture to the sound that other speaker designs I have owned did not. I wouldn't call the delivery "hot", "harsh", or even "grainy" - it's just "different", or for lack of a better word "horny", like someone yelling through cupped hands. When toed in to cross in front of me, this effect was the lowest I've heard it. When I went back to slight toe in (so I am still off axis), this character returned. When I initially set them up same as my B&W (aimed at my shoulders in a 6' x 6' x 6' equilateral triangle) this character was even more present. And who am I to argue with @dtel and the designer of the F2 and F3? I'm sure they've both forgotten more about audio that I'll ever know. The toe out idea is interesting though. When I've done this with speakers before, it almost creates "false space" like a DSP mode, or a "spatializer" on an old EQ. Might be interesting to try though.
  5. Well I toed them in tonight so that they crossed a few feet in front of me. I’ll be darned, they sounded great. It got rid of the “beaminess” of the horns, and dialed down any harshness that was present. The bass was somewhat less but also smoothers, with a little better tone and texture. The only negative was the soundstage was narrower than vs slightly toed in, likely due to reduced sidewalk reflections. On a side note, I took out the passive and crossover, and discovered the only mod is titanium domes on the tweeter. Crossovers are still 100% original, while mids look to still be phenolic. I’m actually quite impressed with these Fortes - they keep growing on me, and I found my B&W to sound a little dull next to them.
  6. So question on placement - I've seen a few different opinions between "straight ahead", "toe in slightly", "aim directly at listener", and "45* toed in placed in corners and cross in front of listener". Yesterday, I tried aiming them over my shoulders (a bit harsh), straight ahead (a bit meh) and tied in slightly (a nice wide soundfield). What are other's experiences with the Fortes? Of note, these are in a specific listening environment, and don't need to be set up so that "everyone" gets good sound. Only me in my recliner.
  7. I guess I’m allowed to threadmance my own thread. Almost a year after I started this post, and nine months since I last posted, the Fortes are now sitting in front of me. I’m currently listening to Bill Evans Trio “Sunday at the Village Vanguard” on vinyl through my tube amp, and wow. Not overly harsh, unbelievable ambience, and gorgeous sound in general. Some of the first rock tunes I put through were a mixed bag. But this? Wow, just wow. I now finally hear the “live music” that people claim Klipsch delivers better than other speakers. I think these here will make an excellent complimentary set to the B&W 683 beside them. Amazing what a difference the upstream electronics and room make. Like a different speaker than I demoed. Wonder what the Mrs will say when she sees them.....
  8. I've been debating off and on about buying a set of Fortes locally, with the main problem being my original demo was done in a poor room with a carver SS hook up. However, I have pretty much convinced myself to buy the Fortes, but am planning to hook them up to my Jolida tube amp. This integrated makes everything sound better, plus leaves you a few shekels left over for other fun stuff to hook up to it (like my Teac CD-P650 which has a DAC and USB for an iPhone in it), or a vintage pre (like my Proton) with an MC phono stage and tone controls. If there are Jolida amps around, they may be worth a look at, especially the 302 series which can be rebiased to take KT88 or 6550 tubes. I'm running mine with KT88, and it sounds wonderful. Good luck on this, and have fun shopping.
  9. Well, pass on this one. Seller let me know they had sold this AM. Please no one post “Those were the best speakers you could have ever owned!”
  10. Morning all, My last foray into classic Klipsch was a set of Forte where I couldn’t survive the demo. Possibly part of it was the hard room, and possibly part of it was the Carver receiver it was hooked up to. However, I left them at the seller’s home, as their sound was not for me. Now a set of Heresy II have come available locally, and I am curious to if they are worth pursuing, based on my experiece with the Fortes? Welcome your options, friendly Klipsch community.
  11. BTW, my wife saw them and asked if I was attempting to compensate for something.
  12. Interesting - listened at decent volume all afternoon, and no real tinnitus. In fact, likely the normal background ringing caused by me eating fried chicken for lunch. I have to say the horn tweeters are certainly different. They project the sound differently than I am used to, and give it a different sort of character that I get from my direct speakers (Wharfedales), or my omnipolars (Ohm, Mirage). It's not harsh or fatiguing, but it certainly is very present. The listening adventure continues. Though I've now put the grilles on and aimed them straight with no toe-in to my listening position. Quite the difference, and they sound less "horny". So, how do others listen? Grilles on or off? Toe in or not?
  13. Next up is Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms", a disc I used in my Forte demo. Confirms I am not getting the harsh mid-push from the Synergy speakers that I was getting from the Forte. Also noticed that during the Lonestar disc, one track started with static coming through the tweeters, possibly due to the speakers sitting unused for a few years. Noticing the better mixed highs are crisper on this disc, and it seems that the snare is a bit splashier than cymbals on this recording. That being said, I am already comfortable stating I prefer the sound of these speakers to anything in the Paradigm Monitor line I've ever heard. Hmmm, "Your Latest Trick" just came on, and I'm finding the highs on this track are missing the splashiness, just a very very slight hint of sibilance on the high hats.
  14. Well, speakers were dropped off this AM, and I have one of my reference discs in (Lonestar's Greatest Hits) to listen to the overall presentation of the speakers. So far, not bad, plenty of bass on tap if needed. Vocals sounds warm and resonant, and not shouty like they have with some horns I've listened to. Piano, ditto; full and warm. Part of this is likely due to me running them on my Jolida tube rig, which has "warm" sounding EH KT88 output tubes. Top end info such as cymbals do sound a bit splashy, and not as crisp as some other speakers with a sharp top end I've owned. My Soliloquy 6.2 were clinical in their top-end dissection, but also over middy. The F3 are not as clinical, but also not as mid pushy. In fact, for my mid sensitive ears, I'd suggest these have a -2dB hole between 1-4kHz, which in my case, is not a bad thing. Initial introduction is so far, good. For a reasonable price? It's a no-brainer. In an act of "Heresy" (hahaha) I'd say that I prefer the sound I'm hearing today to what I heard when demoing a set of Forte. I'm not saying the sound is that much better, it's just that it doesn't have my tinnitus flaring so bad that I want to break into tears. Will listen to some more, and report back more.
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