Idontknow
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11 hours ago, roninklipsch said:
Great vid thanks. I'm new to the forum and just got some Forte IIIs. Love them. At the moment I have two sets of speakers and the panels need to be about 3 feet from the wall. In order to not have the Fortes behind them, they are positioned 17in from the wall. The speakers sound fantastic but as you might expect, not a ton of bass. Fortunately I do have two REL T9xs. Unlike you I guess, I do feel subs add to any system so I'm not suffering from lack of bass but will definitely take the advice and get them back to a wall and run some tests. These are not going anywhere soon but perhaps the panels will.
That's a good idea. Just experiment and listen to what sounds good to your ears. Many opinions are not based on actual listening experiences. Same problem exists in our telescope industry. Many are armchair readers of optics who have never observed through optics.
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Mine are a mere 8"-12" and the bass is impactful.
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This is what I've been saying all along in my videos of the Forte and I believe the reason so few know about this is because they are simply parroting what others say and pretty soon, everyone starts to believe it without ever having listened to it. Skip to 7:40 of this video. I agree with him regarding the negatives of it as well as how much bass gets lost regardless. In the Upscale Audio room I video'd, I recorded jazz. When using headsets, you can easily hear that the bass is significantly less at the distance they had their Forte IV from the wall. To add further insult to injury they added subs which I purposely left off which are not needed for general music listening when the Forte is properly placed near a wall in my opinion. If one feels the bass overwhelms the mids, they can pull it out to the desired distance but subs can drown mids anyway, so it defeats the point in my opinion.
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SE84UFO was a wonderful unit I had for several years until I finally sold it. It had a sweet and pretty sound. The only thing is I didn't find it to be as balanced. The most incredible single unit I've heard to date is the Elekit 8600s 300B. Absolutely breathtaking performance and an extremely holographic presentation. It had everything the SE84UFO had and more with a bigger, meatier soundstage. It uses the amazing Lundahl transformers and the bass was sensational. The SE84UFO just had a smaller sound.
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The Magnavox CDB-650 s already a great CD player we've compared to numerous others and it's older than any of the PS1's. I don't know that this really has anything to do with then vs now. The PS1 just has a particular sound signature and others may or may not like it. I have CD players already that produce more subtle details I didn't post in my review, but ultra detail may not necessarily be the goal in every case because of the issues of matching components. I'll give an example, the Willsenton R8 with open baffle speakers is just a bit too analytical in my opinion and very revealing in sound. After a while, it starts to sound a bit fatiguing to some, not necessarily all, but some. In my opinion, it's really just more about matching components rather than advancements.
There's a lot of over priced, low build quality products being sold today that's far from any improvement all because of this stupid pandemic that's been milked to death financially. Tube gear is very old technology that measures badly and kick's the sh....... out of just about anything solid state made even today when it comes to jazz, it's no contest. I've just never understood why people get so hung up on the newer is better bandwagon anyway. It's like when CD's hit the scene, everyone abandoned LP's and Neil Young said, why? Now, countless audiophiles are scraping for any LP's they can get their hands on. A lot of stuff is made far more cheap these days. Those CD players mentioned are far more expensive, but even so, it's really just a particular sound taste one would need to decide for themselves, whatever their preferences are.
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6 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:
I have heard many open baffle speakers and they (just like box speakers) are no different than what you state about tube amplifiers.
Could you explain. Not sure what you meant. Open baffle speakers are very revealing. -
On 1/28/2023 at 10:36 PM, hron61 said:
Around 2001 I had built some tube gear from kits.
Welborne Labs Laurel ll mono blocks, A Bottlehead Foreplay preamp, and a Bottlehead phono preamp with a pair of Forte l's. Wired in a subwoofer output in the preamp. I made all my own interconnects and speaker cables also, mostly raw beldon cable was used. Had rewired a vintage Thorens TD 160 turntable as well. I heard about the Sony PS1 scph-1001 with the rca jacks was a pretty killer budget cd player.
Well, they were not wrong, sounds pretty dang good. But these days im using it with an older Rotel receiver and a pair of Kg2's. Sounds closer to analog than digital.
Just curious if anybody else uses on too.
You and I have nearly the same setup, turntable, speakers an all. I kept reading more and more about the PS1 because of several specific reviews about how the sound was. Recently my 30 year old Magnavox CDB-650 finally took a dive. I was in search specifically for another one but had no luck until just a few days ago, but between that time I got myself and SCPH-1001 PS1 and wow! This is an outstanding player, nothing like any digital player I've heard. I also have a LEAK CDT coupled to a Denefrips Ares II and in one of my rooms, I prefer this $50-$100 player over my CDT and Ares II costing a combined total of about $2000 now. Even though the PS1 is said to measure badly, it performs as quietly as anything I have and I absolutely love the mechanics and simplicity of it. This PS1 is a hidden treasure. The sounds is warm, sweet and slightly rolled off so it's an excellent match for the Heritage series or open baffle! Absolutely love this thing and the bass it produces is unmatched by anything I've compared! Thanks for posting the topic and here's my review.
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I'm not sure why a tube amp or any other amp would sound more harsh the higher it was turned up. Maybe it has something to do with the efficiency of the speakers it's used with. We experienced no such thing with the R8 or any other. It played the same sound signature regardless of the volume being low or high. There may be some guys into tech with a better answer.
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People have this notion that tube amps are warm. I don't know why so many people think this. Some are bright, brittle and harsh while others are warm and sweet. It is well known that these Willsenton R8's are very analytical sounding. By comparison the Decware Zen is sweet and warm. Many of these new amps coming out of China are very analytical sounding because that's the newer trend filling the rooms right now. Listeners who start out get really impressed when they first hear all these intricate details and maybe some will go on preferring it that way, I don't know. I listen for many hours at a time, so I prefer a warmer and sweeter sound over longer listening durations.
My friend owned the R8 and he had aftermarket KT88 tubes for it and we spent some good times listening to it. It was very powerful and had lots of current. We were listening to it alongside a modified Dynakit ST120 solid state using open baffle speakers of all sorts from Lii Audio. You can see it in some of my videos below. The issue is that it really wasn't a great match for open baffle IMO because open baffle speakers are already extremely analytical and detailed sounding. As a result, we were finding greater pleasure listening to the modified Dynakit ST120 solid state matched with them because it was a warmer amp. The problem is that end-users need to know more about what they are trying to match a product with and they often don't. They just hear a review that it's good. Good with what?
Don't get me wrong, the R8 was a nice amp, but like most of these products, they get marketed through these famous YouTube channels by reviewers who have spent no time reviewing more esoteric amplifiers and I think the reason for this may have something to do with subscriber counts, related to commissions from more popular company brands.
I have a friend who has only 5000 subscribers who reviews products for a different hobby and he brings in between $3000-$4000 a month from it because any sales linked from his channel get him commissions from the company's who sell them. My point is that most of these reviewers know nothing about more esoteric amps, so people just go on seeing those popular reviews and parrot what others say. Just because something is popular doesn't necessarily mean it's actually a great thing. There are things that are amazing that few know anything about and that's the problem with this audio industry as a whole.
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On 2/12/2023 at 5:17 AM, AlfaAndy said:
Everyone, thanks for the advice. I found a pair of Forte ll speakers in beautiful cherry. One owner and lovingly cared for with the original boxes. He said that he was upgrading to Cornwalls. Are there any maintenance concerns or upgrades that I should consider with these Fortes?
Excellent choice. I'd take them over the III or the IV. They also take up very little real-estate.
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Firmware is the plague itself. It's what causes all headaches.
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On 10/9/2022 at 10:29 AM, VDS said:
I’m only using f8 for midrange( >400hz) my guess is that the xa25 would have better punch in the bass. But I’ve never compared…0verall the sound is similar in the mids, but id take the F8 (or f3) as the winner, excluding bass.
F3 is my favorite.
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16 hours ago, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:
The Decware auction is over and it was crazy at the last couple minutes. I don’t know if the winner made a mistake, it went for crazy money..
These guys are absurd. They just get caught up in the bids. It's like a gambling addiction. I've seen this happen where people bid higher than the item is new and readily available.
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On 1/28/2023 at 6:57 AM, AlfaAndy said:
Hello everyone. I am building a "vintage" stereo system for a medium sized room in my house. I have recently acquired a pair of McIntosh MC30 mono amps and a McIntosh C32 preamp. I am considering adding a pair of Klipsch speakers to this system. My question is, would these amps have enough power to operate the Heresy or the Forte, or the Cornwall? Thanks, AlfaAndy
You'll have so much power and current, your ears will bleed before you reach half the volume. I was using a pair of MC30's here with the C8's.
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Hi, Thank you. These are the rare ribbon mahogany versions from the year 2000. Grills are also original and all mint.
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When Thomas Stereo, Steve Guttenberg and Andrew Robinson started comparing the entry level Zen and touting its sound as good or better than integrated amplifiers costing $10,000, that's when sales for Decware went through the roof. That is why people are selling them for more than they paid. It got so ridiculous when I tried selling mine that I had to make a video telling people to chill out. It isn't everything it's cooked up to be and waiting more than a year is absolutely absurd in this day and era.
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18 hours ago, richieb said:
Can’t imagine many, if any similarities between a low power single ended amp and a much more powerful push pull. I’ve had them all
and there is really nothing to compare between the designs. For me it’s an 🍎/ 🍊 comparison.
Please share your listening experiences. Would like to hear what you have to say.
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That's a ridiculous price for a UFO. Decware just raised the price of the UFO up another $200. It all started after the videos were posted.
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When I first heard the Cornwall's I immediately noticed their great soundstage presence and they just sounded really robust like that had a serious set of balls. That was the first Cornwall with the vertical midrange horn.
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Yea, my friends also got their Evo's from Upscale too and their service is really genuine. That crew is really into audio. Upscale has a good following and rightly so.
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1 hour ago, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:
Yes I bought it new from Upscale, the people there are really nice to work with. My room isn’t very big, 12x15, carpet and lots of quilts on the walls…there is a French door with lots of glass…very nice room, close to the refrigerator,coffee pot and bathroom….
That room looks great. It's only gonna get better as time goes on, I'd stick with it. You got carpet a wall dampening which is very good in my opinion.
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11 hours ago, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:
Hello,
Thanks for all the comments especially Daniel. Everything you said is 100% right, I have always wondered what the deal was with Decware. There is a private auction going on with a Decware amp I was considering bidding on but after what you said it open my eyes. It’s not worth paying a premium to get one that is brand new.
It’s been about 5 weeks or so listening to the EVO 400 and I really love it, no way is it going back. It’s a real life time amp which most likely there won’t be any problems with. There sure is a lot of tubes if I ever wanted to change them for fun like my friend Fido did. I listen to a lot of Electronic music which has a lot of bass and tons of things going on, the PrimaLuna is really excellent with this music. Some songs are a tad bright in Ultra so the remote to click into Triode is really nice. To make this amp perfect it would be nice to find a couple 12AU7 tubes to tone it down just a touch but it’s not a problem if I can’t do it..Being retired the wife and I get up around 7 and the music starts durning coffee and stays on until 3 pm and we don’t get fatigued…it’s really good at low listening levels. The bass is perfect, it actually sounds like the instrument or what ever is producing the bass, we look forward to hearing it on my Forte IVs and the Fortes I bought new in the 80s…If anyone out there is thinking about a PrimaLuna you can’t go wrong it’s a great amp…I am close to being 70 so all I want to do is wake up and get another day of this sweet retirement and listen to music at the same time the tv is on, that the advantage of having two systems in the same room…you get the best advice in this forum, thanks a lot..5 weeks is a pretty short period because it will only sound nicer as the unit burns in assuming you got it new. When Mirko first got his Evo and we tried it, it was really bright brittle sounding and later as the months passed by, it sounded sweeter and much nicer. I was really surprised at how much nicer it sounded in later months. You can also treat your room by hanging decorative rugs on the walls. That helps dampen things down a bit too if it's of any concern.
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Fido, you're probably better off not comparing gear. It drives listeners insane and sometimes they're never happy.
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13 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said:
Ridiculously overpriced , bear in mind the original cost. 😀
That's what happens when corporate mentalities take over.
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Klipsch Forte near or away from the rear wall debate
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
I think it's fair to say that those genre's of music you mentioned are notorious for using very low bass though. That's why we see trucks with bass boxes in the flatbeds or trunks of cars. I listen mostly to jazz and classical and I hear no reason to add subs. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying there should be some context such as placement, room, music genre. If you wear headsets and listen to my video above, you can easily hear more than enough bass, in fact, probably a bit more than needed. Just saying.